Erny

I've been doing a fair amount of googling due to my own dog not being well. In amongst all my readings, I'm sure I read that there is a link between Thyroidism and Cruciate Ligament Ruptures. Also, as most of you are probably aware, Thyroidism is a condition more common/prevelant in dogs than you'd think. If anyone wants to know the link for the source of the information I read, let me know and I'll see if I can re-dig it up. :D

I've had someone pass on some information that said the drug did shrink their dog's gonads, but that they returned to normal once the drug had passed its use by date, so to speak. I don't know what this would do to the stud dog's sperm count over time, though. :D I don't breed dogs - I'm more involved with behaviour issues. That is not to suggest that information pertaining to the affect/effect on breeding should not be posted here . From time to time I do come across people who have an aversion (for whatever good or not so good reason) to having their male dog castrated. I'm looking at this drug by Peptech from two points of view: At least the dog will be inhibited from accidental breeding. Where problems might be mallowed by de-sexing, this drug might be an option for those who find de-sexing aversive. I don't mean this to become an argument for "de-sex -vs- non-desexing". Just sometimes (fortunately, not too many) I do have contact with people that no matter what, de-sexing will not be entertained. Mind you, I'm not big on "de-sexing fixes everything" anyway (eg aggression). However, in such type cases, I do find that the male dog, once de-sexed, becomes emotionally less reactive. IE The threshold for aggression might be lowered. This assists when then working to reduce the "habit" factor of the behaviour. Note that I use "aggression" as an example (albeit an important one). There are many other problematic behaviours which can begin as a result of the testosterone flow, and then progress to become learnt behaviours. I'm interested to know the affect (or reduction) on the typical entire male behaviours with the use of this drug. The other question I have is whether, whilst on the drug, the dog assumes the body changes of a male dog that has actually been de-sexed. This seems to be another reason for some people's personal aversion to neutering their male dog.

Thanks, Dogbesotted. :D

Thanks Lablover .... out of interest, would like to hear from those who have used it and the affect on their dog's behaviour. :D

Lablover ... maybe we can organise a video 'arvo/evening. Maybe not straight after the pub, though? :D

Just a check that my earlier understanding of this topic and our following discussions haven't changed, K9... With reference to the "sheep thread", I suggested that, as the dog who has already pulled down a sheep has received "value", chances are very slim that anything other than aversive training will now be sufficient enough to alter the dog's behaviour. The dog has received "+ value" and there's no going back from that. In your above quote, are you suggesting there IS another way (other than aversive training), or are you saying why have a dog that wants to pull a sheep down in the first place? I'm figuring it's the latter, but I just want to check.

Has anyone heard of this product and/or used it? Results? "Aussie scientists have now developed a new implantable device that not only temporarily de-sexes your dog, but also helps to control some of the bad behaviour normally associated with intact males. For whatever reason - many Aussie males (the human kind) see castration as lessening' their dogs masculinity or that it somehow detracts from their own.... This new implant from Peptech (ask your vet about it as we can't mention the name!) is really 'super' and currently lasts about 6 months (a new 12 month version is on the way) and if you really did want to mate your dog - registered breeders in particular are very interested in this - then you can do so at the end of that time." (Taken from "Pet Talk Radio" download .... )

Haven't seen this guy work .... but he's got my vote just there. So many televised speakers avoid criticising the owner for popularity reasons.

Anne - glad to hear Murray is ok. You can go to training and still take it easy with him there . At least it is an outing he really likes and enjoys. Just stick to the basic obedience skills that he knows and does easily - that will afford him lots of wins for which he'll receive his rewards and fun from you. Just let the instructors know you're taking it easy with him. Look forward to seeing you back there. Erny. :D

Hi Anne Haven't heard anything for some time. Is Murray back to his normal self now? Hope so. Please let us know.

Thanks Tassie. The support you guys gives counts for a lot too.

Kal had giardia when I adopted her (unbeknowns to me). She had mucous surrounding her poo too. The mucous was, in her case, the result of the irritation to her stomach/intestine the giardia parasite were causing. Doesn't mean it's giardia, but the mucous might be a symptom of some other sort of stomach/intenstinal irritation, so it could be worthwhile having it checked out, particularly if it's appearing regularly.

ETA: What is it that you're seeing, Dogbesotted? It's frustrating, isn't it? I was talking to a fellow who came onto the Werribee Vet grounds whilst Kal and I were relaxing on the lawns. (I didn't know it at the time, but he came because it was the 1st anniversary of him losing his dog of 17.5 years ... his dog passed away there ) We were chatting about good Vets, not so good Vets etc. I said that I don't expect Vets to play "God" and instantly know what's wrong, particularly when symptoms are ambiguous and/or vague. But it was nice when a Vet was in a position to guage you, respect your judgement about your own dog and accept that "something's wrong". All I've been wanting for 2 years was a Vet to "work with me" on this. Finally, I feel that's what is now happening. If Kal's blood tests come up negative to the tests, neither of us know what's wrong and therefore don't know what to test for. The Vet knows I google and get information from 'speaking' to you guys and the like. I thought that would annoy him ... and maybe it did, at first. But now I think he realises that like him, I just want to find out what the cause of Kal's unwellness is .... and now we're working together - throwing suggestions in the ring and then picking them apart for likliness, or not. That's all anyone can ask, IMO. If Kal's blood tests come back "negative" the only thing (so far) we can think of doing is to go back again a bit down the track and measure the adrenal gland size by way of another abdominal ultra sound ... to see if there's any change. That is, of course, unless either of us come up with any other possible/feasible ideas. Like you say, Dogbesotted ... roll around Tuesday (fingers crossed, toes crossed etc. etc.). In the meantime, I'm about to see if I can google for more details on Lymphocyctic Thyroiditis (compared to, say, Thyroidism) and see whether the prognosis and meds are the same. :D

I don't wish to go "phew" too soon, but .............. "phew" !!! Still holding good wishes for a FULL recovery soon.

Hello again, Pampa :D Hi Cheyenne Kal's the same, as far as health is concerned. We were at the Werribee Vet Uni last Thursday (from 8.30 am until 5.30 pm ... most of the time waiting in the lovely sunshine outside on their "lawns" ... which is actually where they toilet their dogs - I try not to think about that ). They took a series of blood tests for Cushing's/Addison's. Won't know test results until Tuesday coming. The Vet told me, however, that the adrenal gland enlargement shown up by the abdominal ultrasound does not appear to have invaded the surrounding blood vessels. He even went on to explain more fully that it might be simply an enlarged adrenal gland, rather than a "growth" of any type. The Vet took Kal's blood pressure 3 x 3. I can't remember the exact result, but it was something like 166; 199; 162; 155; 122. These aren't exact, and there were more, but that's pretty much how it went. I can't remember what they were 'over'. All of these, except the last, are in the high range, although all, except the 199 one, were in the lower end of the "high". Now, I don't understand this exactly, and I might have this misunderstood, but I think he suggested that where adrenal glands are malfunctioning (Cushing's or no), the blood pressure is usually up in the 200's, fairly consistently. Whereas Kal's blood pressure tended to reflect her emotional state (sort of). So the Vet doesn't find these findings alarming. To me, however, I'm thinking it might reflect that whatever 'condition' she does have, we've caught it in the early stages. (This is what I've been thinking for quite a long time now.) I asked the Vet about the possibility of Lymphocytic Thyroidism. I've only been in half a mind about it too ... a bit torn between whether I believe it's a possibility, or whether I hope that's what it is. The Vet doesn't think it likely and would've been happy enough to let it go untested. But, wanting to leave no stone unturned, suggested we test for that as well. (Might as well get it off my mind .) So, if the blood tests show up negative for Cushing's, he's asked the lab to save some of the blood sample and run a test for the Lymphocytic Thyroidism. She only has a few of the symptoms (and the symptoms she does have are 'shared' symptoms, so it's difficult to tell) but I figure that if something's only at the "early" stage, then maybe .... just maybe. I can't help thinking there maybe something in it ... but again, I think I also might just be being hopeful. So, that's about the strength of it until I hear from the Vet on Tuesday. I'll post then the results. Thank you both for thinking of us. ;)

Haven and I have managed to contact Inka to point out the ADT long weekend centre closures. But for anyone else who are ADT members and who might be reading, HERE is a link to a new thread I've posted which gives details.

Glad you enjoyed your first lesson, Oonga. I hope to be able to make it down (for a look see and perhaps volunteer to help out) from time to time. Will look forward to meeting with you. ;) Hey - HR! Good work ...

Oh yes ... sorry, Haven. Forgot you popped in on page 1. Thanks for the 'pick up' Scope. ;)

No - to my knowledge, I'm the only ADT instructor that has come to this thread. Others are only citing from their experiences in training there. I'm sorry that you feel your early experience wasn't as good as it seems it could have been. I find your disconcert unusual, but I cannot comment, as I wasn't there. I am glad that you continue to enjoy training with your dog. At the end, that's what counts.

Just as well instructing isn't for everyone, Scope .... otherwise we'd have too many instructors and not enough people to train

You don't have to do that, Scope, lol, but we differ in that I don't view training/instructing as being that frustrating. Any difficulties I come up against, I regard as a challenge. The way I see it, that the handlers/owners are at training shows they're taking the first step in the right direction.

Thanks for your support Scope, however, if you've seen us bash our heads against the wall, it's not that often and not always at the handlers/owners, - many a time it's at ourselves for not having found a way to motivate some owners to motivate the dogs. I think all dog trainers will agree that there are disappointing times when the owners don't follow through with consistency in their training/handling. But there are, fortunately, many more times when we get the opportunity to rejoice and share the joy of owner and dog because training/behaviour is progressing and/or the relationship between the two has improved. The latter is what restores our energy and passion to continue on. ;) Patience is a virtue .... and in fact, critical, regardless of whether you are training people to train dogs, or whether you're training the dogs themselves. :p

You're right, K9-Nutter. It's the handler that we are training, after all. We do it for the love of the dog, which is usually the same reason the handlers are doing it too.

Not a stir, Redhead - there will always be some who don't like somewhere for some reason or other. I'm sorry that you didn't have a nice time when you were there - it is unusual, as ADT is very conscious and proud of their professional approach to both the dogs and their owners. I hope you gave some feedback to the Head Office at the time, as it is only then that concerns can be addressed, discussed and if appropriate, resolved. I'm glad you've found a place where you're happy and that you continue to enjoy training with your dog.

I know what you mean and where you're coming from, Scope. Just wanted to make it clear(er) to those who read here that ADT does use positives ... the more the merrier. Many think that those who use aversives in training do nothing else. I don't think that's what Redhead intended to portray, but felt compelled to clear up any misconceptions that might arise as a result.