Erny

Pampa - what a nightmare for you! I was only thinking last night about your girl and wondering how she was faring. I figured no knews was good news and decided not to tempt fate by asking. So sorry to hear this turn of events, but I do hope the Vet can draw a conclusion as to what's wrong soon, and that the remedy/treatment is an easy one with swift and good results. Hugs to you both from me and Kal.

Hi Dogbesotted . When I last put her on this present "diet" for IBS reasons, yes, digestive enzymes and probiotics were a part of it. It was only supposed to be a diet for about 6 weeks or so. The addition of the digestive enzymes and probiotics (which, even after a break, I returned her to them) didn't seem to make any difference to the current symptoms which she still exhibits. At one stage, she was ill and I stopped them, thinking perhaps that was contributing. Now I doubt it, but it's difficult to tell at the time.) However, when I put her on the IBS diet for IBS reasons, the abdominal pain she seemed to have been experiencing did go away. I ran out of probiotics and because it was my intention to return her to a 'normal' diet I didn't replace. (I did include the enzymes and probiotics longer than the 6 week period too.) Given that Kal's endoscopy showed a healthy stomach lining etc. etc., I'm even beginning to wonder if IBS was a correct diagnosis. I never intended for Kal to be on her current "diet" for as long as she has been, because I thought (hoped) that we'd be able to determine the problem, perhaps even ruling out IBS as a cause or part of cause to abdominal pain, before now. The diet should have finished around October/November 2005. I began this torrent of serious Vet visits in December. And now here we are in March already. I still wonder about IBS .... it would be nice to determine what the problem is so I can re-adjust her diet to one which can provide more than what I am supplying. Is this response as disjointed as it seems to me? Sorry. I have done and tried so many things, with symptoms coming and going and me trying more different things food/additive wise that it's difficult to know what was because of what and whether it was relevant at all. I am even beginning to forget/get confused about what order what went, given the long term (2 years) that I have seen symptoms come, go and come again.

She is her 'normal' off self ... but not "off" like she was the other day when she didn't want her breakfast. They can? Is it a blood test? If so, it would be easier and simpler (albeit more expensive) to have the test done - this at least would be conclusive. Kal's chiro was concerned about mal nutrition too. He suggested that a dog of her age should have a ring around just the outside of the colour part of the eye and this ring should be a bluish colour. In Kal's case, it is brown, and he suggested this indicates she's not absorbing sufficient nutrients. Kal's "off food" moments are followed by vomiting .... then she seems to begin to pick back up again (to her normal "off" level). I'm glad you guys have thought it best to wait for 2nd adrenal test before switching diet. Thank you - I wasn't sure if I was thinking it out properly or appropriately, because I know it can be viewed two ways. Abs: I forgot to respond to this in my last post, Abs. I thought about increasing the number of meals, (she used to only have one meal, but I increased that to two during the "bone removal stomach operation crisis) however this will prove difficult from a consistency point of view, as there are/will be days where I cannot be here all day and there is only me to look after her. I didn't want to get her (or her stomache) into a habit where she would be looking for meals when I couldn't be around to feed them. Thanks for your responses, guys. Once again, it's great to have you there as my sounding board when I'm not sure what I'm doing is right or sensible, as well as for the additional suggestions and, of course, the endless support. Appreciated. $187.00 AU, Pampa. Could be worse. I'd have a 3rd, if it deemed necessary and/or wise. Naturally, I would prefer not to have to spend the money, but like I have thus far, I will do so if it is thought to be of benefit for Kal. Thanks for the good vibes. She really is fortunate to have so many people on her 'side' .... and she doesn't even know them. :D Thanks heaps.

Hugs to you and Ollie .... and very strong and sincere wishes for wellness. Vibes on the way. Take care, be strong.

Honestly, Abs, if sucking eggs would fix this I'd do that too! Yes - that's been on my mind too. Must admit though, "no clag" just doesn't seem possible for me .... and I do the same things others say they do. :D I could burn water. Hate cooking. ) Question to all here - (opinions required). Given that Kal has an appointment on 11th April for 2nd ultrasound on adrenal gland (to check if the size has changed), I thought to myself "no, don't change diet just yet" because if I change diet and there is vomiting etc etc. I kind of didn't want to have to add symptoms and then tell the Vet that these now may not relate to anything other than the change in diet or vice versa. Do you all think my logic is correct/feasible/sensible? I seek your opinions .... but please forgive me if I don't take them and go by 'gut' feeling in the end. At the moment I'm not sure if my thinking is coming from 'gut' feeling or not. Can't remember why I cut down on carrots - read something about them (not related to Kal's condition). What is it about them that you would suggest cutting them out completely, Abs? What does the iodised salt do? (iodine supplement?) I know the chiro said to cut it out .... I think something to do with acidity/arthritis? I can't quite remember. Not that we're aware of arthritis affecting Kal just yet ... but she has had back problems in the past and we were concerned that might become a problem later. Abs .... please come pass your magic fingers over Kal . I believe in some funny things - some of which have basis and proof of reality, some don't. So long as there is no harm in it, I don't mind giving it a go.

Ssshhhhh, Lablover. "Allowed" is not the operative word. It seems Myszka has developed a special relationship with the grounds keeper. She goes there, and he chases her off.

Kal is 'stuck' on a diet that I have previously fed to her (from time to time) when she would exhibit symptoms of IBS. It comprises all fresh food: Raw human grade roo mince. Grated vegetables, including spinach; lettuce (sometimes); silverbeet; carrots; pumpkin and parsley. There is a greater quantity 'green' leaf vegetable in comparison to the pumpkin and carrot. The least amount of vegetable (by comparison) is carrot. Rolled oats - soaked for 12-24 hours before feeding in equal quantity water. I give her a beef leg (marrow) bone once every one to two weeks. She can't have too many of these as her stomach doesn't cope much with the fat or marrow. I only do this for her teeth (and because it gives her joy) and these are the only types of bone I can give her. I have the ends sawn off (it was the knuckle end of one of these that she cracked off and swallowed and started the whole saga off with!) I tried to get Kal off this IBS diet and back to her normal diet (which was Vet's All Natural complete mix, coupled with fresh roo mince, and which she did, up until approximately last October, do very well on) but found that this time, she broke out into 'hot spots' along either side of her spine. Previously, when I have been able to return her to her normal VAN diet, there was not a great deal of change to her weight (even though I was feeding her double the amount I normally would ... prior to her ill health, I had to feed less than recommended on the packet and even then I was always watching and adjusting to counter her getting a bit too pudgey. I wish I had that problem now. ) I have experimented (over the last 6-12 months) with things I used to add to her meal (eg eggs) but found that set off IBS again. The chiro recommended I take her off kelp additive. I used to add Vet's All Natural Omega Blend Oil, but took her off this when she started too many/regular bouts of vomiting ... just experimental. I plan to try her on a barf diet (although she can't have the bones they would suggest) and although I expect there would be more additives (vits & mins), I'm not sure how far off her present diet is to one of barf. I thought I would retain her on her present diet whilst we are investigating what's going on. Approximately 12 months ago, Kal had an endoscopy which checked out her oesophegus, stomach and the beginning of the intestine (large intestine?). This was because I was concerned that there was residual scarring as a result of the bone having been stuck in the lower end of the oesophegus. The endoscopy showed lovely, healthy pink lining (oesophegus and stomach and beginning of intestine). (We concluded the only damage to the oesophegus is nerve damage, preventing the affected area from functioning properly. This is why all Kal's food is soupified and why I cannot give her anything chunky to eat - it gets stuck there and causes pain.) Admittedly, we didn't check from the 'other' end at the time, however a check of that was done (albeit, before she began these current symptoms) about 3 years ago (irrelevant now, I know) because she was still showing signs of abnormal stools after a bout of giardia and I was concerned there might have been something else wrong. (All this does make me sound like a real worrier, doesn't it? :D ) Back then, everything showed up clear too, but that's not to say it is now. Abs: Yes - the Vet told me the bloods from earlier this year ruled out diabeties. Abs: Because of a 'slightly increased level' in something or other (I've forgotten what) in a normal blood work up, the Vet ran specific and special blood tests on the liver earlier this year. This came up as 'normal'. The radiology person who did the ultrasound pointed out Kal's gall bladder on the ultrasound - I don't think there was anything abnormal there. Stool sample was given in tests run earlier this year. Vet reported "nothing unusual". In fact he commented on what a nice, normal stool it was. (I remarked we all need to get a life . ) Abs: I've done this, and I must admit, I've always found a heat spot in her gut region. However, given that's the soft fleshy part of her body, I've never been certain as to whether this increased heat is normal or not. I am trying to do Reiki on her () - a friend explained how. I haven't yet developed the concentration span for that. But Kal loves the 'touch' feeling so she doesn't mind . Abs: I thought I'd wait to see what comes of the second ultrasound on the affected adrenal gland. If that shows nothing of significance, the next step, IMO, is holistic/alternative medicine. :D Zoiboy: Thank you. I did a google search and it has given me some idea of what Coeliac is about. By its description, I'm not sure. As per above, I thought I'd stick to our normal feed until we check the adrenal gland for any further enlargement before I start playing with diet. Only because I'd like to avoid complicating symptoms at the moment. But I do plan to print out the info from the internet and bring it to the Vet's attention when I see him next month. Maybe it's the rolled oats that are the problem? Although there have been times over the months that I've switched to spaggetti (although that's wheat, isn't it?) and noticed no difference. Maybe there's something in this "Coeliac" thing, Zoiboy ... and worth checking out if the adrenal gland shows nothing of significance on the next check. Abs: We (Kal and I) thank you both, Zoiboy & Abs (in fact, everyone) .... for your suggestions and for your thoughts. Will let you know how we get on at the Vets after our appointment on 11th April. :D

Zoiboy. Thank you for your post. The only thing that came up when I put your spelling version of the 'condition' in google, was "ciolac" .... and that doesn't seem to have anything to do with medical condition (well, certainly there was no info there, anyway). Are you able to find out the correct spelling? Apart from weight loss and tiredness, were there any other symptoms? (eg muscle wasteage? vomiting?) What did you end up doing for it? Thanks for your interest and your input. Loraine - thanks for your thoughts too. My Vet's either good, or he's scared of me!

Anne .... I think so too.

I think K9 was meaning there is no growling from the handler.

I think the only way to properly measure shrinkage would be to: Fill a container (with liquid volume measurements on it) up to the brim, with water. Dunk your dog's nads in it - please ensure luke warm/tepid water, for the dog's sake Check how much water loss there has been. When you repeat this (say, after the implant has been in for a while), you check the volume of water loss against the 1st time, and that would give you the measurement of size loss.

:D Thank you so much for the photo's, Nellybly .... Couldn't help laughing at the first photo, though - even your dog's expression looks as if he was thinking this is all a bit kinky for his tastes. It might be my imagination .... I've spent a little bit of time comparing the two photo's (and no, Pampa, it has nothing to do with any "nads" obsession, just in case you were wondering .... ;)). Hard to tell, because of the two different angles, but your boy's 'nads' do seem smaller if you check to see how far they hang down beyond the black spot mark on the inside of your dog's left hind leg, in the 1st photo and then check the 2nd photo. ????

Thank you Anne. All I can really say is that I'm doing the most and best I can by Kal, and I now feel I (finally) have a Vet who is working "with" me and is also interested in finding out what is wrong. I feel less "beside myself" than I did when numerous other Vets called me paranoid when I voiced concerns of earlier symptoms. I have Kal booked for a further ultra sound on 11th April. It seems to be a waiting game at the moment and that's all we can really do. But at least, for the moment, there's a "plan". If the results of the ultrasound suggest that her enlarged adrenal gland is not a party to her present health problems, then I'm not sure where we will go from there. One step at a time, though, is all we can really take. :D

Very little info on the ruptures/thyroiditis correlation, unfortunately. When I find the other links (that really didn't say much more other they have noticed the correlation) I'll post them. I guess it suggests, though, that if you have a dog with these physical problems, it may well be worth having (thorough) bloods done to establish/rule out thyroiditis, even in the absence of thyroiditis symptoms. As I understand it, the problem is that if thyroiditis is in the early stages, a standard THS test is often insufficient/unreliable, and that all 6 analytes (vet "speak" ) need to be checked for. Anyway - don't wish to take this topic off tangent (ie from ligament rupture to thyroiditis) but yes, I agree the correlation is interesting, Kelly. Oh hey! Yes! I do recall seeing you guys! Glad the news looks like being on the up and up for Mallee and trusting that you will enjoy years and years of healthy, happy interaction and fun. And yep - that was me on the lawns - looking like we were having the preverbial picnic! We were very lucky with the nice weather. Sorry the "connection" wasn't earlier so we could have said "hi". :D

The photolab are probably holding back the photo ..... for their own amusement?

:D Welcome aboard to ADT, Petal79! I spoke to the girl who did your assessment ... she tells me Ned was really quite well behaved (save for the feux pa to the Rotty pup, as you mention ). She also liked Ned - and enjoyed chatting with you in the assessment. Great that Ned went so well down at the park too. Maybe you and he are beginning to relax together, now that you're beginning to understand each other. Whatever the case, it's important to show Ned you're relaxed (albeit "at the ready") when there are other dogs around. Enjoy your training with Ned. Hope I get to meet you one of these days.

What happened here? Has the OP disappeared?

Sort of, Myszka ... sort of not. I 'fess up to being a youngster in the "days" K9 speaks of. Back then, as K9 suggests, dogs roamed the streets, meeting up with other dogs, meeting up with people (adults and children alike). More dogs were "outdoor" dogs (at least in my area, they were), but then more people spent more time outdoors around their yards (which were considerably larger than they are today). Kids were always out playing (didn't have computers and computer games back then) and the dogs were always a taken for granted and accepted part of the 'pack'. "Dogs are dogs" was a more common attitude then (I find) than now. I don't believe it's so much about letting them up on the couch, per se ... I think it's more that if the dog was out of line, he got 'dealt' with. Not harsh in a cruel way, but definately. No mistaking (by the dog) if it did something we didn't like. I'm not sure I remember exactly what we did for every single misdemeanour. If the dog followed you as you left to go to your friend's place (us kids walked everywhere ... for miles), you turned around and TOLD your dog to go home. If it didn't (eg young/new dog), you physically took it back and either got Mum/Dad/Sister/Brother to make sure it didn't follow, or you chained him up (or some such). We didn't "cave in" to our dog's sad, butter wouldn't melt in your mouth, tragic looks. We said what we meant and meant what we said. In otherwords, we set guidelines and made sure the dogs did not set foot outside those guidelines. Because the dogs roamed and entertained themselves during the day (eg while we were at school - in fact, occasionally our lab paid a visit to class and I'd have to leave to take him back home .... great excuse to get out of school!), we didn't have the barking/digging etc. problems that these days often begins out of boredom. The dog was part of the family ... but the dog was the dog and recognised as lesser than us. (I can't admit to thinking of it, back then, in terms of heirarchy ladder etc.). But don't get me wrong. We all loved our dogs immensley. They were looked after (went to the Vet if something was wrong), bathed etc. etc. There were days where our lab would lie out on the driveway at the footpath, simply watching the cars go by. As a kid, I'd go sit out with him and watch also. Did I think about the "good association" we had built by doing this with our dog? (Eg to traffic and all other sights and sounds around us). Nope. It was just something we did. Our dog was allowed inside at "supper" time. But only allowed to go sit on his mat (comprising of sheets of newspaper on top of Mum's new carpet) and lay there. We had a cuppa and two chocolate biscuits each. The dog had 3 dog biscuits. He knew it was time to go to bed (we had an outdoor laundry and that's where his bed was too) when my brother used to put the milk bottles out. He'd hear the bottles 'clink' and go out. One night, the bottles didn't go out because of a milkman strike the next morning. We forgot about our dog. Next morning, there he was - on his mat. Hadn't moved all night (probably counting his blessings for our oversight). We did all the "I can take your food from your bowl if I want to" stuff, simply because we were the "boss". Had no idea about training or the stuff in dog books these days. We did it at the beginning, and were consistant through to the end. I could go on .... but can you get the gist? It is, IMO, about consistency. Being boss when behaviour was "not on" - this kept the dog within the guidelines we set. Dog was happy with this arrangement because it was one he could understand. And, of course, he was well socialised to EVERYTHING because he was able to roam the streets and neighbourhoods. Of his own accord, he even learnt to look left and right before crossing the busy road.

Thanks for your post, Zoiboy. The first hand information is helpful. In relation to the implant lasting 12 months, though Peptech they say they're only just now working on an implant to last 12 months and that the current ones now in use are to cover a 6 month period. Could you be sure he is still firing only blanks if the situation was to be put to the "test"?

This pretty much sums it up, Dogbesotted! This morning, Kal was off her food. She had a little go at it. Left it for 10 minutes. Returned. Finished it off, but with none of the gusto she normally shows. Half hour later, she threw it all back up (then ate it again, as dogs do ). She has been doing this once every month or so. I will wait for the next few weeks and see how we go with a second adrenal gland check.

I'm sorry for the lateness in posting. I had some friends pay a surprise visit from Queensland and they are staying with me over night (lovely surprise!). The Vet rang me late this afternoon. Kal's blood tests prove negative for Cushing's/Addison's (ie adrenal and pituitary gland function is normal) and also negative for Lymphocytic Thyroiditis. We are both at a loss as to the muscle and weight loss Kal is suffering. Also the intolerence to exercise (which seems to be becoming worse as time moves on) as well as heat intolerance. (If anything, when she was well, she was cold intolerant .... loooooved heat.) The only thing either of us can think of doing is another abdominal ultrasound in a few weeks' time to see if there has been any change in the size of the adrenal gland. If there hasn't been, the Vet suggests that we may be able to discount (at least to the most degree) that the enlarged adrenal gland has any or much bearing on her symptoms. If the size has grown, then we will discuss surgery. Thank you, everyone, for "listening" with me, and for all your help and suggestions. At the moment, we are at a loss and need to wait out a few more weeks for the ultrasound .... unless we (ie me, the Vet ... and of course, you guys, who have been a wealth of information and help to us) can think of anything else we haven't yet thought of and tested for which might reflect the symptoms she is exhibiting. I'm kind of happy .... and kind of not - all at the same time, if that makes sense?

Thank you, Nellybly .... I will be interested in any updates of changed behaviour; physical changes etc., as I am sure others will be too. My image of you taking photo's of your dog's nackers makes me giggle. Thank goodness for digital camera's these days. I'm sure the photo processing labs would have to wonder at some of the things we animal enthusiasts take photo's of.

Do you have the option of joining another club that is better run and with instructors who are more qualified to assist? IMO this kind of sport is not something you 'toy' with and it bothers me that having instructors who may not know what they should well enough, might lead to a dog with indiscriminant biting behaviour.

Thanks, Oonga. What time does training start?

Reference to ligament rupture (and that's all they seem to be, for the most part - references without a lot or any explanation) are scant in amongst the Lymphocytic Thyroiditis literature, but it is there: 1. Lymphocytic Thyroiditis I could only find one of the ones I read. There were at least one or two more, and I'm sure they made a little more direct reference to crutiate ligament ruptures than this one does. I've looked (again) through a few other reference sources, but I cannot locate the ones I'm after. If I can find them at another time, I'll post back here. I'm positive I'm not dreaming it up. :D