Erny

What's "ISO" ? Should I know this? (Erny heads back to re-read in case it has been written or that there may be clues in prior posts )

Lol .... I think you must have read my mind, with your explanation in the 2nd para of your post. I did wonder about it but also thought that it would be particularly awkward for procedures where treatment to the dog's mouth (as in for teeth cleaning) is required. Your last sentence clears it up quite nicely, and you're right ..... I was getting confused with thinking the procedural phase names also dictated the meds being used. Thanks Rappie - I can't think of any more questions, although I'm sure that's only because I don't know enough about it to ask. ETA: Appreciate your edit too, Rappie. It is all helping to make more sense of something I found quite confusing.

Rappie : Thanks Rappie. That clears the order of some things, for me .... . In relation to the above - I don't know if I am mis-reading it or not. So you start the animal on inhaled gas OR the maintenance agent ... . What other "maintenance agent" would there be? IV drugs? I'm still a bit confused because I know there are different ways of doing things, for different reasons and for different dogs. But this does help me to some extent . ETA: I think your post above answers my question here. We were typing at the same time .

This should probably go in the health forum, but because it is a spin off another thread that began in this forum http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=217517, thought I'd continue on here. My question relates to anaesthesia procedures and I am obviously quite confused/unknowledgeable about how it all works. I don't think I need to know technicalities so much (otherwise I might as well go to Uni and do the years worth of study our many talented Vets do) but I'd like to understand the basics of it a bit more than I do. So, my boy had a teeth cleaning procedure recently. He had a pre-med which (in the other thread) we've deduced is "Ace". This of course is what makes my dog initially sleepy and less aware of surroundings/goings on. I'm informed by another (obviously more knowledgeable than I) DOLer that he then would have had an IV induction agent and then onto gas. Ok - so what does an IV induction agent do? It was also suggested that the pre-med would have most likely been an Ace/meth combo. What is the difference between Act and Meth and why would they be used in combination with each other? I'd like to be able to get my head around these things and I'd appreciate your help

Thanks. I obviously don't understand this stuff well enough. I'll start a different thread, because I have a question and don't want to veer more off topic than I have already.

Thanks Rappie. I'm going from memory because I can't find my notes, but I think the nurse said it was used for induction and then they used gas. Does this sound right and is this a good method/combo for a procedure such as teeth cleaning? He came through it ok, so I'm happy enough ..... but just wondering for the future. ETA: I should add that my boy has no fat on him at all.

If that was a common problem, then I'd be calling 'foul' and requesting a re-run with (this time) sufficient notice and receipt of ballot papers.

I wrote it down but now can't find my note (if you could see my desk you'd understand why ) .... but when Mandela had his teeth procedure recently, they used something that the nurse described as "ACE". I know it's not spelt that way, but that's apparently what they call it. What's the opinion of that as an anaesthetic? Sorry, somewhat off topic but seems an appropriate place to ask here . Cheers Erny

Are you sure? Speaking layman terms and layman knowledge base level ..... skin eruptions caused by food allergy still have histamine, don't they? And then when that's scratched it can cause a further skin reaction because of the histamine itself. Worded poorly, so I hope you understand what I'm saying here. Mandela's hives were digestion related (so it seems) yet his Vet told us to have the anti-histamines on standby. ETA: And to further clarify what I mean ..... they might help to clear the skin and thereby prevent secondary infection (which is what the Calendula Tea washes did for my boy) but they won't cure the cause.

Oops. Now I feel silly. Sorry .

I had antihistamines on standby for my boy, but treatment using Calendula Tea washes were sufficient enough to get his symptoms under control. His allergy symptoms appear to be food related and his allergy symptoms were quite bad. I never needed to use the antihistamines.

That's a bit sad. Dog's mind must be helter skelter. How dizzy. Wonder what the owners do for their dog to help satisfy its busy little mind, and settle it. Nothing, perhaps? Wouldn't surprise me but can only assume, and we all know what assuming does. I'm amazed though. Out here the dog wouldn't have lasted a week without Council complaint and action. Six years ????? As I said .... poor dog.

How come, Petmezz? . Are you basing your opinion on the video footage example they gave (back in my day ..... many many years ago, they used video footage of the ear pinch method of training to hold a dumbbell) - I distinctly remember gasping when I watched it back then, and remember talking with the other of my class members and saying I didn't like that method either. It was further down the track that I got to realise how well Negative Reinforcement can work, but that it doesn't have to be the same as that of an ear pinch. (To be fair, we were told that by NDTF at the time also, but initially I couldn't imagine anything else.) Thing is now I see excellent work with excellent results in the use of the e-collar utilising low stimulation. No impact on muscular/skeletal as you would with any other training tool; low stress when done properly; ..... and I could go on. This isn't about the e-collar - I only bring that up because that's where I would use the negative reinforcement training methodology the most and so I use it as an example. I also don't mean to challenge : it is the prerogative of anyone to make choices about what training method they like, don't like, will or won't use. But I am genuinely interested to know why you "hate" negative reinforcement style learning. And the answer to anyone doing the NDTF course and taking your own dogs : No, you do not have to do anything/use anything with your dog that you don't wish to for whatever the reason. But you do need to be able to demonstrate handling and training techniques - to what extent, you would need to check with NDTF. I'm certain it just doesn't have to be with your own dog though.

I would expect it would be a combination of the mites; the gunk; and the drops. Ever had ear drops in your ears? It dulls down the environmental noises. Infection can result in deafness, but I'm guessing it is the drops, given you noticed the deafness once the drops were instilled. ETA: Congratulations on getting your Shelty pup. And your user name *Kal*. That was my earlier girl's name (refer avatar) and she was the sweetest and most special dog .

Gremlins

Is that before or after you've had a drink?

Are you sure it is not CC? Regardless, a spoonful of Active Manuka Honey may help. They usually love it anyway, even if it does nothing to assist, lol. I give this to my boy either straight off the spoon or mixed into a cupful of warm water (that he then laps up from his bowl). Encouraging your boy to drink might help to clear anything that might be there. If it doesn't, then don't rule out CC. ETA: Lucknow beat me to it on the honey suggestion. The thing with honey, and especially AMH, is that it contains antibacterial qualities - so if there is a scratch in the throat (from whatever) or CC, this will assist.

I shaped : "Close the cupboard" (he likes to nose punch anyway, so I put it to good use ) "Bow" In fact, I think I used shaping a lot - but not singularly to anything else. If I was trying for something, I might have begun with lure. Then if I saw him incidentally exhibit the behaviour, I'd grab the opportunity to use shaping methodology. Even vice versa. My boy knows "back" but I did initially show him this by lure. I use "back" when we approach our main exit/entry doors at home. I'm finding that he often offers the "back" before I even ask for it now, which is great for two reasons : it takes him away from being right there at the door and thus minimises potential to duck through an open door; and it means he's not in the way when I want to open the door. I also find "back" handy for if he happens to walk over the top of his lead or long-line. Saves tangling. To the OP ..... just curious, why do you particularly want to only teach "back" by shaping and no other way?

WhoooooooooHooooooo !!!! Very glam!

Dandybush, I think a bit more info is required here for anyone to know or be able to guess what it might be that your friend's dog is inflicted with.

Lol. It was a good ramble though, LukeW. I enjoy your enthusiasm and also that you are doing so well, regardless of how you tell it .

What Staranais said. I can't see simply avoiding the motivational stuff is going to help matters so much as potentially causing more frustration for the want of mental stimulation. Mental stimulation will tire a dog out faster than anything else (but physical exercise is necessary as well). If I've had a day and a half which has prevented me from going out with my boy, and if he's a bit toey, I will do some work at home such as hide and seek with his toys and getting him to seek and find according to which one I've asked for. He'd do this for quite some time, but if I do at least 10 or 15 minutes of it in total, it's usually enough to have him accept settling down. Of course he doesn't get this sort of activity as a reward for being toey ..... I just take his toeyness into account and plan for the activity before we settle down. If you've worked him up using drive, then it is not too late to introduce your on and off switches. Use a word or set of words to trigger the on switch (eg "Ready?" or "Ready to work?") and use a word to trigger the off switch (eg "Finish"). After the word "finish" let your own body language clearly mimic what you want him to be like (eg relaxed, calm). Calmly give him a food treat. Go inside and expect him to settle. Consistency is the key - take control to show Barkly what you want and insist on these new guidelines you are setting. This 'control' comes in the form of what Staranais has suggested, a lead on your dog, crate training. And yes, be aware of how Barkly might be perceiving matters. Is it his hyperactivity that gets him attention, or is it his quiet behaviour?

If, in building drive, you've been providing drive satisfaction AND have taught an on and off switch, this should not have been what has "created a monster". I use drive work to help rehabilitate and balance a mind that appears as a bit helter skelter. Once the dog understands the game rules, it is possible to almost see their minds centre.

He's working at the "Monash Vet" 9544 7455