Kelpie-i

Thanks for that Wally2020 Do you travel to Gippsland at all for your trails. We attend those mostlly. I was also looking at the Go-getta lines by Joe Spicer and the Puds lines. I suppose the right dog will find me. Not sure I'd be interested in 3 sheep trials but would like to give it ago some day perhaps. You sound as though you are really enjoying what you do (as do your gorgeous kelpies).

Wally2020 Where are you from? The farmer trials you mentioned, are they in Vic? The trials we enter into are farmer trials as well as we don't like the ANKC type. How do you feel kelpies go in 3 sheep trials? I am told this is more a BC type style. I am looking at getting another kelpie and have been looking for a soft line. Can you tell me more about the Avenpart lines. Before owning Tasha, we owned a blue kelpie named "Blue" who was extremely hard. He's now working cattle in central Vic. Have been working on her stickiness by using the rake to get her going. Have you ever worked ducks??

We started Tasha off in the small yard as a very young pup (8 weeks) with some trained sheep and slowly increased the amount of sheep. She is now 18 months old and is working the paddock which she tends to to best. As mentioned in a previous thread, she can be a little sticky at times but is slowly getting over that with a little encouragement. We have never used a lead on her but rather worked with rakes and voice/whistles. She is a good backer especially when in the race, albeit we've only done minimal backing with her. She stops and balances well, even though she comes in a little too high on the flanks at times. She has come 3rd in Encourage earlier this year at the Warrigul trials, beaten by 2 Novice dogs which is a really good effort . We also work her on the ducks as well. As I mentiond in my first thread, we are now getting our own sheep which means we will be able to practice with her a lot more. Previously it was a 3 hour drive to get to the trainer which was tough.

Jeanne I can't speak for the Delta course but can for the NDTF course. Being Nationally Accredited also you cannot go wrong. It's an extensive course offering different modules ie. scent detection, assistance dogs, obedience instructor etc etc. Definitely recommend the NDTF course.

See, I knew I had good taste Vickie, Trim is gorgeous!

I'm looking into the Avenpart line for my next dog. Have heard they are of lovely temperament and good wokers. Tasha is from Beloka Scooter out of Puds Mandy. We do not do ANKC type herding but rather work with Paul McPhail doing both yard and paddock work. When we get the sheep, we'll be practising casts, backing and probably more paddock work. I think my OH is interested in teaching her to drive the stock as well, however this is further down the track at this stage. The pic on my avatar is one I found on the internet. No idea who it is, just liked the pic!

Oooh, my kind of discussion. We in the process of getting some sheep so we can work our girl anytime we feel like it....yipee! No more 3 hours drives to get to them We have an Australian Working Kelpie, Beloka line and part Puds line. Full of beans and attitude - just the way we like them! Here she is patiently awaiting her turn during a trial! And when she grows up she wants to be a dentist! (our GSD Buddy and Corgie x Lochie)

We teach the front as part of the recall process, ie. Come means to come and sit in front, but we start teaching it in short distances and gradually increasing the distance. However, I think you can pretty much do what you want to do...I cannot see why you could not teach the front as its own position...you'd have to chain this to the recall later. Again, I come from companion obedience training and this may differ for competition training. Kavik, if you've taught your dog to recall directly to heel position, then you'll simply need to use another name for the come-fore recall. You are best to lure with food to teach this as dogs that are taught to heel will naturally want to keep going to heel position initially. You can use the heel position as the finish. Sidoney, I have seen people in competition use their arms held out wide as the recall signal and then they bring their hands together to the front of them (as though they were resting them). I know for a fact that some are using this as their hand signal to the dog to finish to front. How does the judge prove this to be double signalling when it looks so natural? And what cue is used by the owner for the dog to finish to heel? Is this cue allowed to be noticeable? Sorry for the 20 questions ;) A friend of mine uses the word "Yes" as a cue to his dog to start heeling with focus. When the judge calls "Are you ready", he answers "Yes" and the dog springs into action - FULL POINTS!. The video I mentioned about straightening the come-fore is by Joanne Plumb titled Obedience (parts 1 and 2). I think it's on the 2nd video. It's way too complicated for me to describe in words. We use this method in school and it really improves the fronts as the owners are learning about how vital their posturing is.

Sorry, should have mentioned that I am not teaching for competition obedience but rather companion obedience, so we don't worry too much about double signals and judges

Hi Am I prefer to lure with food and bring my hands to about hip area (in the middle) so that the dog comes in close and straight. I also use feet shuffles and shoulder repositioning to straighten if I need to. I would also start with short come-fores and graduall increase the distance. You should use different commands for different types of recalls, perhaps "To me" or the dog's name for the informal stuff and "Come" for the formal. I have seen a fantastic technique for straightening the come-fore's on a schutzhund video, it's a little difficult to explain but it is based on body posture (human that is).

Good on you guys...definitely sounds as though had a ball. We'll be out with the sheep in a few weeks....can't wait! Vickie, great pic of Trim...geez she gets down low! Edited coz I'm having a no brainer day!

Avenglenn Thanks heaps for that insight that was very interesting. Any more information about the Kelpie Nationals?? Where can I find out about this? Our bitch is more a paddock dog with some very good backing skills that are slowly flourishing, but she also enjoys the yard work. She's stronger in the paddock however. We just haven't had the chance to get her out with sheep of late so she's not too impressed with us at the moment. I suppose if you were Greg Prince or Paul McPhail for that matter, you could make any statement you wanted to about Kelpies. ;)

Thanks for that Sidoney. I hope Denise responds back.

Hi Avenglenn I assume by your name that you own Avenpart Kelpies?? If so, could you tell me a little bit about them and what sort of temperament they have. I have heard they can be somewhat skittish, but I tend not to listen to rumours. I will be getting another Kelpie in about a year's time and am doing my research on the different lines. We currently have a Beloka line which carries some Puds as well. She is of lovely temperament but is a little nervy (comes from Puds line). Any info would be great!!

This is what upsets me the most I think.

I must be the odd one out....I still can't get the video clip to work!!!

OMG...a chocker on a puppy...poor thing! I wonder what sort of tools the owners will need to revert to later on if they need to?? I agree with Pippi....Goldfish - the fake ones that swim in the bubbly water that you plug into an outlet!

Nope, nothing is happening...no black line or anything??

The clip doesn't seem to work...is it just my computer perhap??

Kavik, I totally agree, 40 off lead dogs is waaaay too risky, it only takes one doesn't it.! Espinay2, I suppose "motivational" based training can have different meanings to different people. If you mean "motivational" based usng food rewards then I cannot comment on whether Kintala were the pioneers of this method. However, earlier on in the thread comments were made about using toys and games which is the "motivational" method I was referring to. This method was first used by the Volhards in the 1970's and was shunned upon by other conventional "Khoeler" method trainers as it was sort of "left field" and they didn't understand the concept of it. Nowadays the modern meaning of motivational training is merely the layman term of working with the dog in prey drive.

Agree...good for some dogs, but unfortunately does not help the owner who has a dog with aggression issues. I know for a fact that they turn away people with problematic dogs. I'm not so sure they use motivational based training methods either, just purely food rewards.

jesomil, did you hang out at the caravan park or did you stay at the "luxurious" hotels?? We love the caravan park b/c you can build a bon-fire, eat, drink and be merry. You don't feel the cold that way We didn't make it Paul's workshop this year as we just wanted to head back home on the Monday. You should definitely enter your dogs into the kelpie Hill Climb next year. It's a lot of fun! BTW, that dog that won the Kelpie Idol last year, that was Dylan...a B/C x Kelpie...his owner is a personal friend of mine and I kept accusing him of rigging the comp b/c Dylan isn't a pure bred Kelpie

LOL Erny I wouldn't suggest handlers take tables to class, that would be silly. It's merely a practice method they do at home and it's tried and tested. Only if I see Hugh Wirthless there

Hi Kate, yes we are proud of ole Blue Bagger (knickname) and I agree, Casterton is a great event. We've been going to Casterton for 3 years now and will be back next year once again!. We go mainly to watch the dogs working and to see the auction. This year we entered our girl in the Iron Kelpie Hill Climb. She didn't go through the flags, but did the run in 41 seconds. The fastest was 25.6 seconds (or some such)...the dog that won went through the flags and therefore got 10 secs taken off his time! It was great to watch and to compete. Did you go in with your dog?? Do you go to Casterton each year? Vickie, sounds as though you had a good, albeit tiring, time (as did Trim of course). Am waiting to see the pics Are they any pointers you can share with us?

Hi all Not sure if this has been suggested in this thread or perhaps other threads?? I have suggested to owners of small/short dogs who find it hard to bend over or the dogs cannot readily catch the food b/c of height challenges etc, that they prop their dogs up onto a table of some sort to start with and practice either the food catching or hand food rewards for focus as they "heel" their dogs on the table. Once the dog gets the general idea, they can start placing the dog on a lower height table unil they can finally do it by walking on the ground. This is pretty much a "baby step" approach for those dedicated to the cause