4 Paws

To add a couple of more head collars that are probably not as well known

The Figure 8 Head Collar made by Callicoma http://www.callicoma.com.au/collars1.htm#F...e%208%20collars

and the Kumalong Head Collar http://www.kumalongshop.com/catalog/produc...;products_id=44

I have both and while I really like the design of the Kumalong one the neck strap on mine loosened so I had to have it stitched in place.Have not really used the Callicoma one so can't really comment.

Have never owned a Halti brand one but noticed a few people have come to training with them and a strap has broken,they could have possibly been the take off's that Big W sell now form Petlife I think it is so may not have been the genuine ones

Pretty sure the Gentle leader states it can be worn for something like 18 hours if needed,not sure why you'd need it on a dog that long though but Its one of the claims it makes.The Deluxe model that is sold overseas is much better than the regular one you get here,it has a padded nose strap so sits better across the muzzle and does not dig in

Black Dog is still a favourite

A friend mentioned she was thinking about trying the Vets All Natural Mix that you mix with mince and asked if there were any different brands around.I have just done an internet search and come up with a couple of different ones and wondered if anyone had tried them?

This is the Vets All Natural one http://www.vetsallnatural.net/products.html

And I have found Sojo's mix http://www.yourpetessentials.com/sojospetfood

And lastly this one on Ebay http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Super-FAST-Natural-...%3A1%7C294%3A30

Leerburg talks of choking a dog until it passes out when dealing with a dominant dog who is possessive of toys. http://leerburg.com/pdf/dealingwithdominantdog.pdf page 19 and on.

So this method is out there but I think I would use alternative methods first which maybe take a bit longer but wouldn't allow the dog to rehearse this level of aggressive behaviour in the first place.

Isn't it Leerburg who also hits a dog over the head with a shovel as a way with dealing with aggression? I'm pretty sure it was Midol who saw him do it on a DVD of his.

I believe Midol mentioned this in a previous thread but it was wrote on his website apparently,not on a dvd as I had asked him what dvd it was in as I have most of his dvd's and had never come across it.From memory he wasn't actually telling people to do that,he had said one of the hardest dogs he had owned he'd had to do that to stop it doing something,possibly attacking another dog,not 100% sure on that bit though

My old shepherd who dies a few years ago now used to leak and vet put her on Sudafed tablets to dry it up a bit.Not sure if they still use this treatment now though

I agree with gathering up the slack of the leash, but not to throw it at the dog, but to drop the slack as the dog is about to take an aggressive lunge with a "leave it" command, about turn and administer an almighty Bill Koehler style leash correction. The dog needs to learn quickly that the thought of administering discomfort upon others will cause some discomfort for him/her self. My GSD was a liability by 18 months of age, a complete nightmare with stranger/dog aggression on leash wanting lunge at and bite everyone which no positive reinforcement training made the slightest difference. After 4 or 5 good leash corrections, he knows what comes next after a "leave it" command if he doesn't stay by my side.

He would love to have a lunge, my God would he, but on the "leave it" command he looks up straight at me now for another "leave it" command, and walks past the stranger/dog like a perfect gentleman. I believe that aggression behaviour is a serious disobediance fault that requires a serious correction which does work to perfection especially with dogs of hard temperaments.

What do you do when a dog couldnt give a crap about that correction?

If my dog has had a brain snap it makes little difference and the only thing I can do is pull her away. Its one of the reasons I dont use a prong (I do not enjoy stringing my reactive dog up by one when the correction has not deterred her), and with a check or martingale I can be yanking that lead til the cows come home if she is in the zone... Usually my only hope is a pre-emptive "NO" which is only about 90% successful.

Im interested in the abandonment theory, but doubt I would ever have the opportunity to try it. Too risky.

Can't really see the risk when there is a 2nd long line attached . If you read the 2nd link I provided it shows you train with the 2nd line and than I gather you don't go any further till you dog is not reacting anymore

We came across a guy one morning who must have read something along those lines. His Airedale (sp?) decided it needed to eat my border collie AFTER he had dropped the leash.

He was a little less than impressed to have his dog handed back to him by the scruff of the neck 3 ft off the ground - along with a mouth full of abuse. I couldn't believe anyone in their right mind would drop the leash of a dog they know AND ADMIT is aggressive.

Idiot said 'oh, but he's aggressive on lead' and couldn't work out why I was upset that his dog had jumped on mine and pinned him down.

It would have to be set up and incredibly well proofed before it could be considered anything like a good idea.

I believe you should do the proofing while using a 2nd person holding the long line.don't think I'd be letting go of any leash unless I had the 2nd line attached.I think if you did the programme correctly it is proofed and you no longer have the aggression problem

If you read the link i placed in post #3 there is info on the 2nd leash set up

Haven't actually trained there but am contemplating it.Have been to their club for the recent Rally Seminar and saw the Sunday morning training and it looks quite well run.Mrs Dog is one of the instructors I think

Here's the website http://www.ssdtc.com.au/Pages/Welcome.html

why not train the drop for a stand instead

I had a problem with my foxie training the drop till I strted using the under the bridge method rather than luring down with food.

thanks - what do you mean by "under the bridge" method?

Easiest way is to teach them they must drop their head and elbows to the ground and this is easiest to do if they have something to crawl under.You go down on the floor on one knee and extend the other leg with a bend in it to form an arch.If it's small dog you can actually sit on the ground with one leg bent(better on your knees)You can adjust your bent leg to the dogs needs

Show dog a piece of food in the palm of your right hand,once he is interested move it to the right side of your leg so he must go under your leg to move toward the food(not luring but show he the food and ask what he will need to do to get it?)

Once he is under with elbows on the ground give him the food.You can than start getting duration by using more food out in front,when he does not move bring food back to him,if he moves towards food push food back under his front legs and try again

why not train the drop for a stand instead

I had a problem with my foxie training the drop till I strted using the under the bridge method rather than luring down with food.

Thanks for that Practicality might be an issue- it would be okay when its set up but i wonder how they carry it over when going for a normal walk and encountering a dog.

I don't think its teaching the dog that you'll abandon them or won't stand by them in a fight . I think it would just be a well conditioned cue word for the dog to come with you, same as teaching a look command really well.

Will report back once I've received the dvd.I believe you would keep training using the 2nd long line till the dog stopped showing aggression

No, haven't tried it and hadn't heard of it before. Would need some clarification- i read it as the dog aggressive dog approaches the other dog, at the first sign that the dog is going to aggress, drop the lead by throwing it at the dog and run away using conditioned cue word?

You'd want to have conditioned the response to the cue word incredibly well for an exercise like this to be safe. Its not something i would do- especially with one of my dogs as the test dog.

I'd read more info on another website(can't find it now) and you have 2 leads attached,one normal 6 FT leash you hold and another long lead atached to either a harness or another collar another person is holding(so you need 3 people all up you,the person with the other dog on leash and the 3rd person holding the long lead)so there' s no risks involved to either dog

ETA-Found where I'd found the info about the long lead http://www.prolibraries.com/apdt/?select=s...mp;sessionID=30 (go to preview button)

I read briefly in a book I had borrowed from a friend about Abandoment training for leash aggressive dogs and finally googled it and came across a dvd on the subject on Dogwise by Trish King and just ordered it

Here's a brief outline on it http://www.positivelytrained.com/edu_resou...nt_Training.pdf

anyone ever tried anything like it before?

I do agility with my gsd.We only started about 6 months ago and at this stage are just doing it for fun,don't think we'll ever trial.She quite enjoys it and so far had no real trouble with any pieces of equipment.NO,she's never going to be the fastest dog around but we enjoy it.

I saw a pic of a gsd doing agility on a website recently but can't for the life of me remember where it was

The lady who took our first Obedience class today said she didn't want correction collars on the puppies, check chains and haltis. She said only flat nylon/leather collars or the martingale

This grumpy looking mother and son had a halti on their little black lab puppy which I thought looked very extreme/wrong for a pup. I'm glad they were made to take it off, it was squashing his eye!

Our obedience school wont allow check chains on pups under 5 months old either... if you can conquer the lead pulling now its so much easier than when theyre 32kg and 12 months old

Just a reminder in Victoria-Slip Collars ( choker chains), must not be used on puppies under 12 weeks of age, this is stated in the Code of Practice for Dog Training Establishments.

All equipment has the potential of doing some harm if it not used correctly. I would suppose the only piece of equipment that does no harm is still sitting on the shelf in the pet shop. (That way it is not in the hands of inexperienced or in informed handlers).

Slightly off topic but when did anyone last buy dog equipment that you were supplied a detailed drawing and written explanation on how to fit and how to operate this equipment. I see many a product on the shelf with no explanations as to how to fit and how it should be used correctly.

I think the Gentle Leader comes with one of the best instructions I have seen for a piece of equipment.There is a dvd included and written instructions I think

I own a fox terrier so understand your problems.

I would start using the Triangle of Temptation programme to start with http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=64101

while my dogs don't fence fight one of my gsd's will go up to a house towards the back of us and bark to annoy the dog up that lives there so we ended up putting up an electric fence a few metres out from the fence which quickly solved the problem.

Good Luck with it all

Leerburg website has a very good clip on training a dog to wear a muzzle http://leerburg.com/muzzle.htm

My Boris has a auto immune disease, it is called Pemphigus Follicailous, his nose isn't cracked but he has lost the pigment on it & broke out in pus scabs all over his body.

A biopsy of the scab sent to a skin specialist soon confirmed this, the vet wanted to put him on Cortisone, but I wasn't really happy about this so I went to see a herbal vet who made him up a "Potion" & also gave him accuptunture, That was 3 years ago, and apart from him being neorotic his physical symptoms have all gone.

Fish oil & Colliodial Silver were my savour.

Thankyou everyone for your posts.

I did end up starting her on the cortisone tabltes for one course.They are Prednisolone tablets and have increased her dose of oils.I have always given her some type of oil,woudl give her fish oil for a while than change to EPO,than flaxseed oil but am now giving them all at once.also applying zinc cream a few times a day.

Turms out the bleed from the other nostril was actually another crack strating out.She also used to get these little sore on her body.I'd notice a tuff of hair sticking out and when i pulled it out it had a clump of dried stuff on the end so I'm guessing this was related as well from the sounds of things

Fingers crossed this will finally give her some relief and we might only have to have the one course of cortisone

Silverblue,did you give the colliodal silver internally or bath the nose with it?

the more physical excercise you will do the stronger, fitter, etc he will get and will need it more.

He needs to occupy his mind more then the body.

Agree with this.

Also- what is he like when walked alone?

maybe start that..and then crate him in another room, away from the others? so he can gently learn some independence?

I agree with crating him in another room away from the others and the main house activities to learn some independence.I have done the same thing with one of my shepherds who I had some problems with

good Luck with it all ruthless.I know what it's like to get to the stage where you just don't enjoy the dogs at times

We sell the Gentle leader at training and I think it's section that goes over the dogs muzzle is too thin and leaves a mark on the muzzle ...

I agree with the above, although the GL can have advantages in certain situations and for certain applications. But I was recently informed (3rd hand info) that the newer GL's had not only a wider muzzle strap but that it was also padded. That's what I've been told, anyway.

IMO each of the brands harbor advantages AND disadvantages when being compared to one and then another. It boils down to which brand/style would be best for the individual dog in question. And that has to take into account not only the dog's head size and shape, but also the size of its neck in comparison to its head, its length of muzzle and also what behaviour issues are present (if any).

Personally, I don't often use them. But I am a trainer and therefore I have made a point of learning not only about them but also how they should be properly used and the dangers in not using them properly and to gaining some experience in their use. Head collars have been of use to me personally in some special circumstances.

there is a Deluxe Gentle Leader that is padded around the muzzle area but I have only seen it overseas,not here yet anyway that I have come across

While not a huge fan of head halters i have tried a few over time.

The best one I think is possibly the Black Dog brand head halter.It seems to fit well and does not annoy the dog too much.We sell the Gentle leader at training and I think it's section that goes over the dogs muzzle is too thin and leaves a mark on the muzzle although they do have the best instructions being a dvd included

Not personally used a Halti brand although have had 2 people come to training with ones that have snapped

Have you looked at the Newtrix Easyway Collar

vet didn't actually relate the nose bleed to the autoimmune diognosis.She did say it was hard to see if anything was really going on with the nose bleed as her nasal cavaties really are quite weird shaped.She did look in the side that had the bleed last night and couldn't find anything sinister so she really was just trying to figure out why the other side had the continual crack and dryness.

I guess when her nostril started bleeding last night I'd just had enough of seeing her with the crack on her nose and deceided to go back to vets to get them to look further into it

Is she losing any toe nails? Could be SLE / DLE or some other immune problem.

No,no problems there

My 5 year old gsd has had a dry cracked nose now for around 8 months.I had her to the vets around Oct last year for another reason and mentioned her cracked nose and the vet looked at it and said it was not infected so not to worry about it.

I have previously asked on here for ideas on what to treat it with and had tried paw paw cream,am-a-lin,barrier cream etc all with no success.If I left it alone it was just really dry and cracked,if I tried to put something on it it was wet and cracked.Last night I noticed her other nostril was bleeding from what appeared inside the nose area,not outside so I booked her in agin to the vets to insist we get to the bottom of it as it had gone on too long.

Vet was not sure what it was being caused by (the cracked nose,,couldn't find any real reason for the other nostril nose bleed though and it appears to have sorted itself out)and took some pictures to show to her boss as she wanted his opinion.She rang late this afternoon and said they looked through lots of vet books and believe it's caused by an autoimmune disease and want to put her on cortisone tablets and suggested putting zinc cream on the nose to see how that goes.

Just wondering if others have dealt with this kind of thing before and if it was successful.Is there any alternate methods to try other than cortisone?

thanks

not sure if this may help http://cgi.ebay.com.au/KOEHLER-METHOD-OF-O...%3A1%7C294%3A50