Prydenjoy

If you can find a puppy pre school class call them up and enrol ASAP, it makes a HUGE difference to the dog as it matures, and is a safe environment for puppys to socialise up until their final shots, after their final shots their critical socialisation period is pretty much over, which is why I advocate PPS so strongly (if you live anywhere near Willoughby my sister runs PPS at the Willoughby vet clinic, she'll take care of you!). Until the final shots are over I would suggest going to busy places and just carrying the pup, it's great socialisation as old ladys, kids, and every other person in the streets crowds around to pat the puppy (Chino didn't get a break, EVERYONE pulled me up to cuddle him, I was even called into shops so the people working could have a pat!). Most of the diseases pups pick up are on the ground, so as long as you are carrying the pup the risk of it catching something are minimal. Once the pup is 18 weeks old have a dog training class lined up to go to, to continue socialisation - Continued training for life is ideal but not for everyone, but training and socialising for the first year or so at least is extremely beneficial to the pup. Walks, well I think the "general" guideline is about 5 minutes per month old, therefore you could take a 3 month old pup out for about 15 minutes, this is a slow walk, allowing the pup to stop and sniff things as it goes, meet people etc, so it may take 15 minutes just to walk around the block. You don't want to be walking any dog that is still growing too briskly. On the first walk remember to take LOTS of treats! Every time the pup looks at you for the first 5 minutes, give it a treat. It will quickly learn that looking at you and being by your side really is the best place in the world, and you'll have set up a good habit for life! Hope this helps

Good point, although he doesn't meantion that in his book (at least not the grow your pups one, unless I missed something!). Still, I don't see that milk is "necessary" as he says it is. Yoghurt, yeah I can see the point in feeding that, milk, I don't understand what his reasoning is. I am intolerant to milk, it doesn't give me the squirts like it does with some dogs, it gives me eczema, I have friends who get stomach aches from it - How do we know if our dog is getting a mild stomach ache every time it has milk? Considering it is not necessary, and Billinghurst doesn't set a good arguement to feed it, I'd prefer err on the safe side and keep my dogs happy, and just as healthy as they would if they did get milk

Hello Palane If you're just feeding the necks/wings/meat you'll probably end up with deficiencies. You might want to read up on some raw and home cooked diets. It can all be a little over whelming at first and you do have to do a lot of research. I'm guessing Lucious is another Afghan? If so it's extra important that you get it right, as large breeds can be subject to all sorts of skeletal issues if they don't get the right calcium to phosphorus ratio when they are young. A word from experience, if you have picky eaters you may consider cooking their evening meal ie feeding chicken wings in the morning and a cooked meal at night. My guys tend to turn their nose up at a raw "slop" which is made from meat, offal and veggies. Now I opt for a balanced cooked menue for their dinner, with meat, offal (liver, heart - they love heart!, kidney etc), some grains and supplements such as fish oil, vitamin B, vitamin C, Evening Primrose Oil (which I'll be swapping over to Emu oil shortly), kelp and cod liver oil. I also add vitamin E a few times a week, which is important to add on the day because if you freeze it it inactivates it. If I am wrong can someone please correct me? But I think the correct calcium to phosphorus ratio is 1.2:1. You will see at this website the calcium to phosphorus ratio for a chicken wing, it is pretty spot on as to what they require. Therefore, you need to make sure their evening meal has the correct calcium to phosphorus ratio as well. If you enter the ingredients in here you'll be able to see the amounts of calcium:phosphorus and add egg shells or something such as cottage cheese to make the difference up (they are more likely to be high in phosphorus - I think 1tsp of ground egg shells = 2000mg calcium). Make the recipe using about 20% meat (turkey meat and roo meat are good choices for meat, roasting retains most of the vitamins and makes the meat more tasty), 20% offal (of that use about 50% liver, and 50% a combination of kidney, heart and giblets), about 40% cooked and then pureed veggies (sweet potato and pumpkin are good as a base, and whatever is in season), 10% grains (controversial topic, my guys like a bit of grain in their diet and it doesn't do them any harm - Use things such as brown rice, pearl barley, and oats), and then 10% of extras, such as eggs, cottage cheese, sardines or salmon. If you go to the nutritiondata.com website you can type in all the amounts of the ingredients and you'll be able to work out the calcium to phosphorus ratios! It's a good idea to make a few recipes that vary slightly to provide variety. I cook the offal with the grains (my guys get a higher percentage of grains than what I suggested to you) and it makes it tastier for them. My boys love their cooked meals, Montie would never eat the raw meals I made for him and practically lived off RMB's for a while, lucky he didn't get sick from it! Now I've found something that works I'm sticking to it. As for the controversy re raw vs cooked, cooked is more palatable and the nutrients (particularly in the veggies) are more readily available to the dog. I think it is still important for them to eat a bone a day (and yes I do eat an apple a day myself! LOL) so they get that for their teeth and to keep their immune systems strong Do your research, see what you think... I hope what I have just done is outline some basics for you in an easy to understand way to get you on track. You need to feed your dog what works for them, and if they aren't eating something, no matter how nutritious it is, it isn't working for them is it? So you have to try the next thing, and the next, until you're satisfied with what you see Good luck!

Exactly... And he also advocates feeding milk, even though most dogs are intolerant of it! Can't find any references to back up the thing about flax seed though, but a dog nutritionist on an email list I'm on has apparently read up on some recent studies about it. Besides, why feed a plant based product to a dog when you could feed an animal based product? Also, dogs diets are natrually out of balance with omega 3 and 6, feeding flax wont fix that problem because it has omega 3 and 6 in balance, which isn't good if you only need to boost the omega 3, for this reason I recommend fish oil. If you want to supplement with omega 3 and 6 as well as boosting the omega 3 with fish oil, then I'd suggest adding Emu oil also. As for Brewers Yeast, well it is quite a common allergen for dogs, lots of dogs can handle it, others can't. You'll even find warnings from distributers such as on this page Good luck finding what's wrong with your puppa!

Ditch the flax seed meal (dogs don't utilize it anyway, waste of time and money) and add a fish oil supplement instead. Also, ditch the brewers yeast, that can often cause allergies in dogs - I give my boys a B supplement instead and they thrive on it, without the itchiness

Well he got a once over by a vet in Sydney about two weeks ago, Vet said he's a healthy little thing. I think there is a vet coming out to dog training on Sunday, if so I'll ask her then (although it may have been last weekend, but we didn't go because it was raining). Its probably nothing, I'm probably just an overly worried mum... Montie has a rather wide chest, so I'm used to his legs, which are further apart - Chino is a totally different type and at the moment he's so skinny (as in, has a narrow body - He's a healthy weight) it's probably natural for his legs to be closer together. If I could find out more about his pedigree it might be easier to tell if it runs in his family...

Yes they get half a chicken wing each in the morning (if I gave them any more they wouldn't have anything else to eat that day - they don't need much!)

I might have to get that Shultz book some day... I'm not new to raw feeding, I've been feeding it for years, but want to further my education! And have to include home cooking because my boy just doesn't like raw patties... But I get my worries about phosphorus because I used a table which adds up the nutrient requirements a dog needs, the calcium levels in what I feed are low (which I can make up with ground egg shells) but the phosphorus is way over what a dog his size needs. I get this information from a yahoo group, thepossiblecanine, it has a spreadsheet, based on the food values released for dogs (oh I can't remember the name of the people who control that). Basically though, they get way too much phosphorus and I'm concerned about the effect it may have on their liver etc.

Ok I found a photo of a dog with legs slightly like Chino's - his legs do not bow out at any point though, his shoulders sit in very close to his body. His legs are similar to the dog on the right of this photo From what the webpage says it seems it is something that is bred into them. Is there anything I can do to make it less of a problem? Is it even a problem for a non-show dog?

Getting a photo to demonstrate what I mean will be difficult, for starters, he is the squirmiest puppy I've ever come across and getting him to stand still for a photo will be next to impossible (only photos I can get of him are when he is sleeping). Secondly, my evil, sociopathic housemate who I used to live with stole the cord that goes from my camera to my computer, so I can't transfer photos to my computer anyway! Oh how I'd love to post photos of the brat, I do have a few that my sister took on her camera though that I can share - Where is this Papillon/Phalene thread? BC - If it was nutritional I wouldn't be speaking to the breeder about how to fix it, she had him on Whiskas dry and loaf style cat foods and suggested I continue to feed him this food... I could never bring myself to buy cat food for a dog, especially Whiskas! Actually, since getting Chino I've had a hard time getting in contact with his breeder, I've asked several times for a Pedigree, if only a photo copy (he was sold to me as a pet - I'm still entitled to see his pedigree aren't I?). His dad is well known and a beautiful dog, but I can't find anything out about his mother! I've seen a photo of her but haven't been able to see a pedigree or anything like that. I love him to bits though, pedigree or none, he's still the sweetest, most lovable thing about

Thanks Carabelle (I think I've spoken to you via email before, when I was still looking for a puppy) I'll ask my sister about Kojo, she works at a vets so they might stock it, otherwise she can look at the pet shops in Sydney for me because the one pet shop here only has limited things! I think that I may have heard beet pulp can cause tear stains initially in regards to kibble, I think someone could have said not to feed a particular kibble because it had beet pulp which could worsen tear stains, but then again my memory could be playing tricks on me!! It does that sometimes... If no one hear has an answer I'll cook their next batch of food without beetroot, if the tear stains clear up again I'll share the news

Why is that, may I ask? I've heard some good reviews on the Pitcairn book. They don't stock it in any of the book stores here, so unfortunately I can't have a flick through it and then make up my mind. I want to be open minded and read up on more methods of feeding, I find Billinghurst all very unscientific and am worried about the high phosphorus levels in the diet he promotes. At the moment my guys are on a half raw/half cooked diet, but as much as I know about the raw stuff, I'm pretty new to the whole cooking idea and want to learn more. Is there a better book someone can suggest?

I thought I heard hear ages ago that beetroot could cause tear stains... Is that right? Are there any other things that could cause them? Anything to prevent them? Switching my pup to an all natural diet has cleared them up significantly, but it seems they have become a wee bit darker since adding beetroot to his meals, but then again... I could be imagining stuff...

My Papillon puppy, Chino's front legs slant inwards from the shoulder to the elbow (I know I got the body bits wrong, I'm sure of it, but you get what I mean!), kinda like a British Bulldogs... I only noticed this today. He gets a home made diet - Could something like this be caused by a deficiency or overnourishment? Or would I be likely to be seeing other symptoms if that was the case? Is it probable that they are supposed to be like that? What I mean, is when he stands and looks at you the bottom sections of his legs touch up until the first joint. It looks rather pretty, like he's a little ballerina... But bitey

Just out of curiosity, has anyone fed Pitcairn's method of feeding, and also tried the Billinghurst method? What were your experiences? As soon as I can afford it I'm going to buy the Pitcairn book. I kinda feed half and half at the moment, raw chicken wings and cooked meals... Raw BARF patties, no matter how packed with nutrients they may be, aren't much use if the dog wont eat them!

I'd probably drop the kibble all together and add lots of pureed veggies instead. Good luck with it

Oh poor My Little Pony!!! Good to hear she is OK :D

Hey Poodlefan, you've got Alfonzo as your avator, I love that dog! He is so cool! Particularly when he turns into a rotti! :cool: I use fish oil capsules, I try to get as natural sources as possible ie fish is more natural and bioavailable for dogs than flaxseed

Oops, double post ;)

Fish oil capsules 6 times a week, evening primrose oil capsule once a week, and 1 - 2 tsp olive oil per 10kg of dog daily. Eggs are also great. I find that you can do anything you like to treat dandruff etc externally but it isn't really helping the dog unless you find the cause and treat that, usually through diet.

Hi Belinda, Turkey chunkers is low fat, so as far as I know it would be OK. However, the Advanced dry food is very good quality and I wouldn't remove it from his diet completely. Maybe add a small amount of chunkers at first and then slowly work up to mixing them about 50/50, that way it will be tastier but he will still have Advance in his diet

Hey, you can only train using positive methods in Delta, so I wouldn't have any problem handing one of my dogs over to train with someone else for a few days! Anyone ever even THINKS about putting a check chain near one of my dogs though and from me! Nearly $1000 deposit... looks like I'm going to have to revise my finances... the good news though - looks like I might be starting a new job next week!

Well I like it to too but I do have an article saying why they believe garlic is not good for dogs. I just saying I choice nottogive my dogs anylonger after reading ther article. Garlic has many benefits, but it also has its dangers that come with large or ongoing doses. Just as with everything I'll feed it in moderation. Occasionally I'll chuck a whole bulb in with the mix I make up, then make a mix with none, just so that they can receive the benefits but without it building up in their system and creating dangers. In my experience though, dogs with garlic added to their diet seem extremely healthy and full of life, but it is impossible to put that down to the garlic itself.

Well if you, or anyone else, wants to do the Delta course but can't take their own dog, and I do end up enrolling, then I'd be more than happy to provide a dog! LOL, I'm taking Montie for myself, but would be more than happy to bring Merlin and/or Diego down if anyone needed them. Merlin would be over a year old by then, and very pleasing to train, and Diego would be good if you wanted a challenge, you can learn a lot from him about not becoming boring, because if you get boring he'll just stop trying! Wags, I don't mind you hijacking, but I'd probably just be worried that your posts might not be noticed by those who need to notice them in here! Good luck though, sounds like fun! Maybe I can finish my psych degree at uni and do some part time mental health work and part time dog behavioral consults or something, that way I have both a steady income and am doing something that I will love... oh and would be helping people in both my career choices!

I'm kinda at that point where I'm not sure what I want to do anymore too... I have always loved animals but never knew of any good careers I could do with animals. So I started a course at uni and now I know that no matter what I do I'm always going to want to do something with animals, so now I'm half way through this uni degree and unsure of what I really want to do! What sort of careers can you have with dogs and how do they pay?