leopuppy04

Just thought I would ask on here - has anyone heard of this before and/ or used them?

www.petprotector.org/?ID=13442

http://www.petprotectoraustralia.com/flea-and-tick-discs-2

I have also heard it works on paralysis ticks etc.

To a degree it makes 'sense' but I'm just not certain on it's effectiveness.....

Any information would be most appreciated :)

Thanks guys. I'm really hoping for other options (for cost as much as for the comfort of Kinta also)... but I guess it will only be 6 weeks worth of treatment... hmmm...

Hi All

I'm starting my planning for our Qld trip (with dogs!) in June/ July next year. Given I live in Vic, I don't really have to worry about the paralysis tick.

My question is what do people use? Given our dogs will go swimming and walk through the bush etc, I'm guessing the Preventic collar is not enough?

I am a little wary of using Advantix as the last time I used that Kinta had hot spots, swelling and scabs at all of the applicator sites, so I'm trying to find something else that she won't react so badly to.

Any suggestions are welcome :)

Hi All,

I am currently planning my trip to the QLD Agility Nationals for June/ July next year. After the Nationals we are planning a slow trip home along the coast - but given all of us have (multiple) dogs there will be quite a number!

One of our stops we are hoping would be in or near Wollongong as this will allow me to catch up with family - but most caravan parks are not taking pets or are not willing with our number of dogs (around 10!)

So - anyone know of any locations we can try? We would be happy to rent a house for around 4 days, if the price was reasonable.

I know a few doggy people live around there, so I was hoping someone might be able to offer some suggestions :)

Thanks!

I am not a breeder, but if the faults were serious I would cull. I definitely wouldn't sell at a discounted price - a dog is either a suitable pet or not.

Yep I agree - not to mention all the hard work you would otherwise have put into the pup/ dog

If I was a breeder and this happened I would keep the puppy and see how it went as it grew. I would never just kill it on the off chance there might be issues.

agreed

I bought one of those pups, knowing what she was like. I put her down at 20 months old. Problem is those pups are often ok with the breeder, amongst their family. I was a fool to take her, I could see what she was like, but really didn't have any idea just how much it would impact on her quality of life. Based on my experience and the heartbreak we both went through, if I bred one like that and could see it, I would PTS.

Temperament issues, especially anxiety that manifests in severe separation anxiety, reactivity and nervous problems can be as much or more of an impost on a puppy owner than a dog who has a bad parrot mouth or some other issue that people would PTS for without question. It's with you every day, with the weather forecast (are we getting storms), on walks (will they go batshit at the car/bike/other dog), when you want to go out (are they going to shred up the carpet or rip out their teeth/claws on the doorframe in terror) - and if you take them with you will they cope in the car?

Sure, it's not all going to be that dire, and to an extent it can be managed with training and socialisation, but the difference between an easy dog with solid temperament and one with hard-wired issues is a major difference. It affects so many things that owners can and cannot do. It's also a reason why dogs bounce out of homes into the unwanted dog streams. Finally, it's crap for the dog too - imagine what it must be like to live with that kind of anxiety and/or stress?

So I would never criticise someone for electing to PTS for temperament. Better to do it young and before the pup is in someone's home to become a source of heartbreak for them as well.

As a breeder and as a pet owner etc. Depends on the situation. I think 8 weeks is too early to tell, so I don't think I would cull at 8 weeks. Not unless there are serious concerns. I've seen issues that have been apparent at 8-12wks old and by 12-16wks it's apparent that the dog is merely going to 'grow into' these problems.

I would treat a temperament fault probably stronger than a health problem. A family managing a health concern (with full disclosure) is not necissarily putting the community at risk. A dog with CEA may be culled and nobody questions, yet if we have a serious behavioural issue, then you may get questioned all the time.

Honestly - I would hold onto the pup do some training and assessment and see how I felt down the track. I don't want to pass a pup onto someone if I was not certain on the temperament. If I felt then it needed a special home, I have more information about said dog as a 6mth or 12mth old dog. If I felt it couldn't be worked with, I think you *know* by around 6-12 mths and if that was the case, then nobody but me has to deal with the decision of euthanasia.

There are a few studies that suggest dogs impact wildlife just by passing through. They are predators and animals will be disturbed by them regardless of how well they are behaved, although obviously it makes sense to limit the impact they have. We go through some pretty nice places with good habitat. We are very lucky that we can visit such places in the company of our dogs, who clearly have the time of their lives in that environment just dashing around on the rocks and wading in the creeks and sniffing around. They act like it's Disneyland. We show our gratefulness by being respectful of others, cleaning up after our dogs, keeping them away from wildlife, sticking to the tracks as much as possible, and being mindful not to damage habitat. I hope that if we continue to be respectful and careful we will continue to be allowed to enjoy this with our dogs. We love the winter months for the hiking. It is one of our favourite activities, and one of the dogs', too.

LP asked WERE she could take her dogs. She didn't ask for a debate on whether she could or should take her dogs in the bush.

Exactly - so those that are concerned, maybe a few suggestions of WHERE to actually walk might be time better spent as this may keep us out of areas that unknown to us are not welcome to our doggies - all of who are very well trained and need a place to exercise too. Parks and reserves are just not the same as running through the bush...

have a look here ..

http://www.weekendnotes.com/dog-friendly-bushwalking-tracks-melbourne/

http://parkweb.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/305099/Walking-your-Dog-Brochure.pdf

I cannot understand though why someone would want to let dogs run offlead in bush areas where there are , hopefully, wildlife populations .... if you want to give your arms a rest .. and that's a good idea :) use a long line attached to your waist ! My Hamlet was almost always walked that way ..and it meant my hands were free for cameras, etc as well :)

Thanks for the suggestions - however try walking with 4 dogs attached to you - no thanks. These walks are also to keep our dogs in peak physical condition and I'm sorry but I don't think they can meet that via leash walks only. With regards to wildlife - that's why we only choose areas where dogs are welcome and also allowed off leash - while wildlife is still there, it's much less, and I guarantee you that all of our dogs are pretty wildlife friendly other than trekking the same paths that they do and making a bit of noise ;)

I will quite happily run my dogs off-lead persephone. You don't allow them to harass wildlife and if leopuppy's kids are anything like mine they mostly stick to racing along the paths. Can't help you with your question LP but its certainly heaps of fun. I was lucky enough to take my two out on Saturday to the grounds we use for tracking trials to help plot tracks for next weekend.

Both were extremely well behaved despite the number of roos that were around and only had to go on-lead once for a little bit because I didn't want to risk it when the oldie started showing a little to much interest in the roos. Baby dog was oblivious to them .

Exactly what I was thinking Ness. I am always amazed at the 'freedom' that some other countries have where dogs are allowed in all national parks and reserves overseas. I know we have a lot of special wildlife but it's not as though my dogs are hunting them down or ruining their habitats - we always make sure they stay pretty close to the paths.

Have you ever tried negotiating some of the rockier/slipperier trails with an excited dog or two attached to you? As an ecological consultant I started off with a "dogs on leashes only in bush" rule, but the more adventurous we got, the less practical this rule became, and at times it is downright dangerous. I need all my balance, thanks. And it's probably better that my dogs are not trailing a long line that is getting tangled in shrubs and fallen branches and shredding small plants. We compromise with good recalls and put the dogs on leash if we do come across an animal that may be harassed or stressed by the dogs' curiosity. Echidnas, lizards, wallabies, snakes usually. Although Erik brought us a turtle once. We said thank you and put it back by the creek. We find most of our walking spots through Google maps. My partner is not bad at detecting trails from aerial photos. We start on fire trails and explore from there.

That's what we do too Corvus - and the rockier paths are heaps of fun and great exercise for the dogs :)

Impact on wildlife is definitely something to consider, some dogs will give a serious and determined chase, some won't. My dog will, so it's something I assess pretty carefully.

Generally in the State Forests and Aboriginal land I walk, the wildlife has already been shunted out by logging, quarrying, dirtbikes and other commercial and recreational activities that degrade the land too much for it support anything in the way of native wildlife populations. The wildlife my dog has disturbed and harrassed has been all in my own backyard, including an echidna a few weeks ago that I had to get the local wildlife park to come and rescue. Poor little echidna, happy to report the day after they rescued it from my yard, it was eating and appeared healthy and undamaged, they are pretty hardy little creatures.

Exactly - state forest the dogs are usually welcome - but I don't know where the state forests are :laugh:

Krislin - I've only been to the warbie trail that is on footpath and near the roads.

I am ideally looking for quiet, out of the way places that are TRUE bush walks, where dogs are allowed and allowed off leash :)

Thanks Jules :)

Btw - is off leash allowed?

You might struggle to find parks and Forrest's that will allow dogs off lead, and that many as well.

We did a walk at Le Gershe Forrest near Creswick last week, it was lovely and will be going back out this week to explore some more. On lead only though.

Usually state forests allow the dogs to be off leash in certain areas :). You can find them if you look hard enough :)

Nice walks to be had at Hanging Rock. Good BBQ facilities too. No off leash area though.

The You Yangs have some pretty nice walks too, and the tracks in the bush behind Anglesea to Fairhaven/Moggs Creek are nice and quiet. Both of these places you will come across mountain bike riders and the occasional horse.

When you say you will come across - they aren't dirt bikes in full fledge are they? Given the numbers of dogs we walk with (15-20 usually!) we like to choose the quiet secluded areas so the dogs can have a good burn and our arms can have a break :).

Where is the You Yangs??

Do you have specific directions Nik? I'd like to try one of these next weekend :D

The You Yangs are halfway between Melbourne and Geelong. Just take the Geelong highway and there will be signs to the You Yangs. They're out the back of a town called Little River.

Hanging rock is near Mt Macedon, on the highway to Bendigo.

And by mountain bikes I mean push bikes. Rarely encounter dirt/motorbikes. I have walked by dogs off leash behind Fairhaven but I'm not 100% sure you're allowed to. Most of the time when I've walked there I've been the only person which is lovely.

Just be aware that school holidays start next weekend, so some of the coastal areas may be busier than usual- although it is winter so probably not as many people as in summertime.

Great - thanks - this sounds like fun!

Have you been to Kurth Kiln in Gembrook way? Dogs are allowed in there.

Nope I have not tried that one either. Details please?

Nice walks to be had at Hanging Rock. Good BBQ facilities too. No off leash area though.

The You Yangs have some pretty nice walks too, and the tracks in the bush behind Anglesea to Fairhaven/Moggs Creek are nice and quiet. Both of these places you will come across mountain bike riders and the occasional horse.

When you say you will come across - they aren't dirt bikes in full fledge are they? Given the numbers of dogs we walk with (15-20 usually!) we like to choose the quiet secluded areas so the dogs can have a good burn and our arms can have a break :).

Where is the You Yangs??

Do you have specific directions Nik? I'd like to try one of these next weekend :D

You walk 15-20 dogs at once??? I walk 4 at once and I have my work cut out for me :laugh:

not just me! But the dogs outnumber the humans easily!

I usually take 4 when we go bush bashing, another friend takes 5, another 3, another 2-3, another 2-3..... as you can see it adds up quick! 3 humans and 8 dogs today though ;)

Nice walks to be had at Hanging Rock. Good BBQ facilities too. No off leash area though.

The You Yangs have some pretty nice walks too, and the tracks in the bush behind Anglesea to Fairhaven/Moggs Creek are nice and quiet. Both of these places you will come across mountain bike riders and the occasional horse.

When you say you will come across - they aren't dirt bikes in full fledge are they? Given the numbers of dogs we walk with (15-20 usually!) we like to choose the quiet secluded areas so the dogs can have a good burn and our arms can have a break :).

Where is the You Yangs??

Do you have specific directions Nik? I'd like to try one of these next weekend :D

Hi All,

I've been doing a bit of bushwalking lately with my dogs and LOVING it! But I'm running out of 'new' places to explore. Doesn't have to be melbourne based - a couple of hours out in any direction would be fun for a full day out of adventures.

Does anyone have any ideas or recommendations to walk? Not too many dirt bikes/ horse trails, but would enjoy any or all recommendations of walks/ bush/ beach areas that allow dogs....

Thanks in advance

Just my thoughts leopuppy but given you are asking the dog to track I would rarely do a seekback as anything other than the first exercise because if you have been using the area already your just making it more complicated for the dog.

Having said that I have done a few repetitions of seekback, one box then repeated a seekback and done another box. What happens if you go back a step do a seekback and then do a really short box. I haven't been following the thread but is it just a trial issue or do they miss the first box when training as well?

Yeah that was my thought too Ness, hence the question, but just wondering if I was being too 'precious' and whether someone was going to say "nah the dogs can track the freshest scent etc etc".

Never really does it in training - quite solid actually - and enthusiastic...

Leopuppy it sounds like very time you take Leo out you always run him through an entire UD round - so you are trying to pattern train? Is this right?

Just wondering if that is where some of the problems stem from in that if any one little thing changes, the dog's understanding of the exercise goes down the drain?

# 3 Put all the UD exercises in a hat - including the stays and choose three exercises out and do them in the order you picked them and reward at the end.

Love #3 option :). What about the seekback though Ptolomy if you have been just 'heeling' in that area?

I never really do a full round - usually 1-2 exercises and the occasional full run through (honestly, about once a month when I get down to club).

Susan Garrett recommends doing loads and loads of repetitions from up close. She did a challenge with her students and split them into two groups each had 4 days to train - group faraway - had to see how far they could get and send their dogs to the box. Group silly poses - had to see how many silly poses they could make and send their dog to the box.

Guess which group won the far away challenge.

I love this and have done this with my two to teach them the box. It seldom ever does fall apart I find and they LOVE the box (except after a seekback ;))

Thanks everyone for their suggestions - keep them coming!

#2 mix it up so do 1 x box without rewarding, 1 x scent, without rewarding and then the end part of signals and reward. This builds duration before getting the reward and also helps with transition. You can then do it backwards - so 1 x signals, 1 x scent and 1 x box and reward

Yeah I found this really helped Leo with his focus and duration also. Combining exercises and jackpotting at the end. You can literally see his brain go from "hang on...." to "WOO HOO.... Treaties!!" :laugh:

Question - do you ALWAYS do your seekback as your first exercise (if you are going to practice it) seeing as it is a scent based exercise? And secondly, would you always do seekback and box together?

I do wonder if Leo's ability to fail the 1st box on a semi- regular basis is linked to the understanding of both exercises and do I need to break it down, or is it the linking of the two behaviours that he doesn't understand?! Hmmm

OK - something to try - even though you don't appear to have a box issue and thanks to Caffy for showing me this one.

The question is - does you dog know the box exercise and can it go to the box regardless of the distraction?

I have taken photos of the setup. I have used 2 bar jumps but only because I was setting it up to take a photo and was too lazy to get the solid out of the car. But ideally you would use a bar jump and a solid.

I like this one and I will definitely have a go at setting this up

Just want to chip in here and ask is your hand signal different for both seek back and box?

And do you do a leg weave in between exercises and then tell him that you are going to the Box, the box, the box...

Different hand signal. and yes, we get him all geared up for the box. It's actually really hard to explain and I know that I probably sound like a broken record, but I honestly don't think he struggles with the principles of this exercise! For some reason it falls apart in trials, but I'm not sure why....

I'm sure our nerves have a lot to do with it - so the revving up and geeing up for the box could help - think that was what I did.

I agree! But the revving and geeing won't make a difference in a trial

I suppose I should clarify after speaking to TSD on the phone.

I'm not looking to 'fix' a particular problem. I'm now training two dogs for UD and both are at different levels. I've also been 'training' UD for about 4 years now, so training the 'same' stuff can get mundane and dull - for both me AND the dogs! So I'm really looking for different ways to spice up and *test* the dogs understanding of each exercise. Particularly the seekback. Not a way to go back to basics (as they already 'know' parts of the exercise) but perhaps different ways to really engage their noses and make their seekback a very strong exercise. So it doesn't HAVE to be obedience based, but for example, different training games to help improve the dogs understanding of their obedience/ UD exercises.

Hope that makes more sense!

I have a 2012 X trail and am on the waiting list for my puppy bars. I looked into Zandona but he didn't seem confident with fitting false floors to X trails so I decided to stick with Colin. Price also was no different for me .

I am getting a false floor ontop of the drawer system. Slightly less height but still enough room for my 4 aussies I would think. I asked for enough room to put a Trolley underneath. Should come up to the height of the wheel arches in the boot.

The single door for me. would have been too narrow with 2 doors I think. But I'm doing my door on the LHS so the dogs don't have to jump over the towbar all of the time.

Hope that helps. Will post photos once it's done!

Oh and one more thing - what do you do to 'warm up' your dogs for UD? I've always been the type that does one of 2 methods - out of the car, quick tricks/ some heelwork/ gee up games and then into the ring. I HATE it when people heel around and around and around u ntil the dogs are dead bored and switch off in the ring. Option 2 is brought out, quick training session away from the trial, jackpot, back in the car and then out again about 2mins before they go intot he ring doing the above.

It's been suggested to me that I don't 'switch' the dogs in enough, and this could be part of my 'seekback' issues... but I don't know how else to switch them in!

Yay! Finally I have 1/2 a minute to reply! I will answer Ptolomy's question first - about what exercises:

Basically I am looking for any 'fun' games outside the square. We do heeling and training around their 'reward' pots so they never know if the reward is from me, the pot or a surprise location. They like this game :)

Now for specific exercises:

SEEKBACK - I don't know WHAT I do wrong with this exercise as everyone doesn't seem to have a problem with this, but undoubtedly mine will fall apart at some point. I can't see where/ what I'm missing in the 'teaching' of the exercise or what step I am jumping, but I do seem to cause problems with this exercise! Leo is quite proficient at it now, however this morning, Kinta was acting like she had never been taught it in her life! :laugh:. So I guess for me this is the big one - what are some fun exercises to 'test' your seekback. Both of my dogs LOVE it, but I need to have lots of fun and different ways to teach/ proof this. Many of you who have been on here for a while remember my woe's of this with Leo. so ANY suggestions (or even literally spelling out how you taught it would be great). I used the 'start peg' method ;)

BOX & DIRECTIONALS - Both of my dogs are pretty good at this, though Ptolomy, the 1st box is what Leo will mostly blow in a trial - he goes back into seekback mode - or he gets confused and doesn't leave my side. Second box he usually nails. NEVER does this at training. Ideas on how to proof this would be great.

ARTICLES - fairly solid - but I'm always up for proofing games... and also really 'testing' their 'hold' of an article.

SIGNALS - fairly solid, but because you focus so much on the other stuff, I find the heeling can drop back. With Tahli fast coming up to competing level too, I'd like some 'new' games for heeling practice. Leo is also a little unreliable with the COP at the end of the signals... so some ideas on this would be great too.... again doesn't seem to really blow it in training... just trials :)

GLOVES - Kinta is my first dog to teach this, so ANY ideas would be great. She's pretty good, but last night for example, she wouldn't go out to 1, would just turn and collect 2. We've used the 3 pots of food method and that's worked really well. I'm thinking of going back to that this week for a bit :)

STAYS - Just proofing ideas please. I find 'training' stays boring.. but I really do need to practice them, as Leo is becoming a fidget bum in the down stay (licking his bits, scratching, but never actually 'breaking' position)

I'm thinking of going, but it is going to be expensive. $10 a run & two dogs for all the events they are eligible for plus accomodation. Expensive compared to the ADAA Grand Prix. Might just have to cut back on what they enter.

Try running 7 :p Before we cut back, our entries for 2012 were well over $1000 :laugh:

It's always so hard to decide what to cut back on...but geeze...> $1000 That's why I like ADAA big events, its just the one fee that covers all events.

OUCH! However I am keen to do the ADAA events too but just not sure yet....

I'm thinking of going, but it is going to be expensive. $10 a run & two dogs for all the events they are eligible for plus accomodation. Expensive compared to the ADAA Grand Prix. Might just have to cut back on what they enter.

Try running 7 :p Before we cut back, our entries for 2012 were well over $1000 :laugh:

Ohh ouch, I will never complain about running 2 dogs again!!

I wanted to go to this Nationals, but heard the grounds aren't exactly great either? Plus driving up there would take days, places to stay are as rare as hens teeth, would need to take 4 dogs but only running 1.......as much as I want too starting to think I will wait till the 2016 one in Adelaide :)

I think I will go to QLD - it will be Leo's last nationals so I would like to go for that reason alone :). Long drive though but I will definitely be driving with 3-4 dogs to enter! :laugh: Might see what the Annual Leave situation is like, because the other factor to consider also is perhaps taking longer on the drive home and have a bit of a holiday :)

Ok so I've been doing UD for a while now and this is as much for me as it is for the dog. I'm trying to look at fun and different ways to practice the UD exercises to make sure the dogs are really proficient at each exercise.

I have 2 dogs, one experienced and one new. One has been trialling in UD for coming up to 3-4 years now and one is about to start trialling.

They each know the exercises well, however with my older dog, you can tell he gets 'stressed' in the ring, which probably causes his brain farts, taking away our passes. He regularaly scores 190+ in open and has received pretty much full scores for his exercises in UD when he does them correctly. It's never the same exercise that he mucks up twice (with the exception of the 1st box...).

So what I'm looking for are what games do you play with your dogs to really test and proof their understanding? I'm trying to think of fun but challenging games which makes 'training' harder and 'trialling' almost seem 'easy'.

given I also have a young girl about to start CCD and also regularly train with friends who's dogs are in all different levels, I'd be keen on ideas for any exercises, but I'm particularly interested in UD exercises :).

Also - what about warm up exercises - what sort of games do you play to 'gear' your dog in so that they are ready and raring to go...

Could be a fun topic for everyone :)

Apparently, according to some PETA advocate I can't rescue and breed at the same time, because me breeding working kelpies has a direct affect on bull breeds and how many are in the pounds

Do you guys come across this a lot? People thinking your responsible and ethical breeding is somehow adding to the shelter dog population?

Will they never get it? I've also been yelled at recently for buying a dog from a reg breeder instead of rescuing a working dog from the pound. No matter how much I explained about buying a dog with certain lines and traits bred in versus adopting a unknown quantity, it didn't seem to sink it.

Just a bit sick of it.

Sorry for the rant but have had a horrible day and this just added the cherry to the top

yep - I get it all the time, and it's very frustrating. How my interests must be crossed because I do both. It can get very frustrating sometimes!

Huski- honestly for me it's quality over quantity when you have larger numbers.

Their training time is their own which at home is 2x 5-10min sessions per day as I love short sessions. Each dog has a min 1hr training session at a club per week, evening walks are only 2 dogs so a bit more quality time.

On lazy (couch days) usually each will have a chance for cuddles on the couch...

Then when I go out sometimes only 1 or 2 come out. At trials, each gets a "social walk" while I go gazebo hopping and we have lots if cuddles then :-).

I find its really easy to manage :-)

I have 4 - 8.5, 6.5, 2.5 and 10 weeks.

For everyday life - I would be happy with 4-6. As TO mentioned 3 is annoying as you tend to take 3 with you and there always seems to be an odd one out.. With 4 life became much easier.

I don't think I could compete with more than 2 regularly. Partly the cost and training time. I happily train all 4 but when it comes to trials I have to pick and choose a little more when it comes to entering stuff rather than just entering everything... But with 1 it's boring! Lol!

went to see Zandona yesterday and was really impressed. He sounds like he makes his trailers really strong and was willing to do a puppy bars/ trailer deal. Will do it however I like.

Then I had someone offer me their Trickey trailer 2nd hand.... now to decide what to do....

Anyone got feedback for Trickey and their quality.