Herr Rottweiler

Really erny? The Government stoops to such levels! The most shocking points to note is that they make it sound like their doing us a favour. Fear is such a reliable motivator in political circles

That's a good question erny. One that I dont know the answer to. PF They have been calling Schtzhund Dog sport for over a decade. Back in the days that I was involved with the clubs they called it dogsport. HR - Am I right in thinking that the authorities believe they have now 'got them' because of the more recent regulations regarding "dogs not being allowed to bite something being worn"? Prior to that I think the laws were ambiguous and as Schuthund trained dogs are not trained to attack a person, but rather, to bite a particular 'item' that's why the authorities haven't been able to nab them in the past. I would suggest that you are right on the money Erny. After all they did threaten Steve Austin with proescution at an Animal Expo for playing tug of war on stage with his dog as a reward.

That's a good question erny. One that I dont know the answer to. PF They have been calling Schtzhund Dog sport for over a decade. Back in the days that I was involved with the clubs they called it dogsport.

This is the original email I recieved. I suggest contacting the email address provided if you genuinely want more information. I will be speaking with John McDonald tonight so I will get a better account on what happened.

I dont know the individual charges. Aren't you jumping the gun a bit? no

I will post more info after I speak more with the original party.

I dont know the individual charges. A fair question but a somewhat short sighted one. The BSL will never be about the deed. In this case however, it will have a profound effect on titled dogs being imported into the country.

Hi all, Just had word from a few freinds in the schutzhund community that they are being dragged into court at the start of next year simply for doing what they have always done, Schutzhund. They have done nothing wrong, they have just enjoyed being a social community and sharing a passion for high end training. At this stage, they have being charged with 30+ offences according to local councils, (who are just a runaway law unto themselves) and they face a really tough fight ahead. The big picture problem here is that if they lose, eventually so do many dog owners because it's just another nail in the BSL coffin which will ultimately effect many of us. There does come a time in peoples lifes where they have to do more than just feel pissed off or robbed and this is one of those times. A community working together can do great things and move mountains and i sincerely believe this is a mountain that needs to be moved, permanantly! Victoria has been dubbed, "The Nanny State" for some time now as our governments love to pass law upon law and ban everything they can. It has to stop There is a group organising a fighting fund as we speak to which some canine enthusiasts have generously donated to so we can have our say in court. If you would like to know more and are genuinely interested, pst me and I will send you more info on how you can help. HR

I was about to come in kicking and screaming at some of the "opinions" however Haven has acted as the voice of reason allready. How about looking at all situations with a balanced perspective. Too many people on this list tend to play the 5 minute expert, even in topics they no nothing or very little about. Examine the pros and cons, such as, who will be training the dog, how many sessions etc. Training dogs do not just sit in a kennel all day, in fact many of them would have more stimulation than what they would get from many owners at home who admire them through the window, (not to say all owners are like that). I ran my own training company for five years and trained thousands of dogs in B&T situations with brilliant results which works on the proviser that the owner then applies the technique at home. All training methods, class, private lessons & Boarding and Train have their merrits. HR

Grats Shoey...told you everything would be fine

Of course, you just have to join the club which will set you back about $60 and it's $5 per lesson

Ouch...that's what happens when you talk on the phone and type at the same time. Thanks for the pick up. HR

Hi all, Rotty Club training has finished for the year. We will be back on Wednesday 6th of February 2008 at KCC Park at 730 pm HR

Hi Erny, Obviously you have my support. Andy, what a rediculous comment. Please back up your argument with fact or science rather than emotive banter.

hmmm, i don't know how to respond by being called handsom by another man

Neither do I! It makes the whole co-existence function very well I've seen the extremes on both ends of the spectrum and everything in between. When pressure is required, obviously it's given. When sensitivity & confidence is evident, why wouldn't you use these tools.

Ness, what I believe a balanced trainer to be is someone who will, "use what works" to get the best and most reliable results in anything that needs to be done. I understand that's a fairly broad description, however it highlights that the trainer will be prepared to use what they have to get the best from any dog.

5 stars Ern

nice! There's something to be said about political correctness and extremists. Again, let me emphasise, element = small percentage not wide eyed, panting and urinating. That doesn't even fall into the relm of training, rather it's outright abuse and cruelty.

PF, you're using the word, "fear" as an extreme which is not what I explained and you're being specific to your own dogs where i'm generalising

Kelpie-i 5 stars... you get it

5 stars for your thinking Respect is a human trait that we liken our relationship with our dogs. Even though I would use the term respect, in my opinion it's gained through an element of fear. Don't forget guys that fear is not limited by physical pain. What about the fear of having something taken away or the fear of being abandoned. Don't think so 2 dimensional.

This is swinging off topic I know but I believe it should be discussed. On all these threads, there is one thing in common from the more positive minded folks which alarms me. They are always saying that they don't want their dogs to fear them. I don't like my dogs to behave in a frightened or submissive posture around me, however I do like to know that my dogs have a slight element of fear of me. I can understand that some may read the above paragraph and be totally shocked by what I said but here's why I know it's a good practice. It eliminates the instinctive desire to challenge leadership and settles the dog to understand and accept its place in the pack. It knows that if its told to do something then it must be carried out or there are consequences to face. This is exactly how all animal groups function on earth, including humans which is how and why we manage to maintain control. When there is no element of fear we face the possiblity of anarchy, which is when the postive trainers ring me in secrecy and tell me that their dog wants to eat them, or they just mask the problem and put the dog to sleep. What does annoy me is when I see the positive evangelists parading that theirs is only one style and then they get their dog round the corner on a prong and tear into it for embarrising them. (Seen it many times). Balanced trainers have my respect. They get it and they understand that there is a scale to work with which can be altered depending on the individual dog they have to train. On the flip side to this, purely compulsive or purely positive trainers have my contempt. They ruin dogs and fill shelters. In summary, this is a difficult topic to discuss on a forum where it is prone to misinterpretation from people who don't understand, however it's aimed at those who really do understand animal psychology. Good topic

I love it when someone, "gets it". 5 stars!

Good to hear guys! The team at NDTF spent a lot of time making sure the package was A Grade before it went. Remember to study before you come to do your practical work