kelpiechick

True - but if you think there is any chance that your dog is likely to run off then DO NOT even think about entering a trial. This would be my pet peeve at the moment - the number of Novice dogs that leave the ring on almost every run, often to run into an adjoining ring where another dog is running. Dogs get very hyped up at agility trials and a lot of them don't like strange dogs running up to them and it is an accident waiting to happen. I'm not talking about the odd occasion where even a more experienced dog might leave the ring for some reason - not that I like that either but yeah, it can happen to anyone unfortunately. But the repeat offenders are a problem that some people don't seem to 'get'. It is most unusual that an instructor would tell a student that they were almost ready to trial after only 3 months - if starting with an adult dog I would prefer to have a good solid few months minimum of Foundation training before I even attempted some of the obstacles, let alone tried to run a course. Not to mention teaching the handling skills you need to get around a course either. On average you lose around 50% of your training when you first start to trial due to nerves, different atmosphere for dog, etc. I don't care about passing first up but I would want to know that my dog was well and truly ready to handle a Novice course, as Kavik already said - and even an Excellent course. But you also tend to wait longer and longer with each successive dog before bringing them out. Good advice to go and have a look at a few trials and see if that helps you have a clearer picture of what you are aiming for. You can also take your dog and see how he/she reacts in that environment.

You won't find it listed as a tunnel - it is mine ventilation ducting (mineflex) You can see it here You can buy it in different diameters and lengths.

Maybe speak to Tracey about it if you haven't already. She might have dealt with something similar or at the least she would know the local laws in regard to animals.

Do you want working or show lines ? In many cases these have almost evolved to 2 different breeds - although this is a generalisation only as there are still several show lines out there that I know have good working ability, but obviously different qualities are valued in each of their breeding programs. Might be a good idea to do a bit of research about the 2 first so you can make an informed decision as to what would suit you better. They are also quite different in appearance, working lines usually being a lot taller than show lines and with a more athletic build. You have actually emailed a working line (Noonbarra) and a show line (Ringbarka) I have heard some good things about Ringbarka kelpies but have never met one so can't help you there. I have 2 Noonbarra kelpies and compete in agility with them. Although from similar breeding they are like chalk and cheese in personality but both are great dogs in different ways and I am very happy with them and love them to bits. So I would certainly give you a positive recommendation there. Stephen and Mary are also very good at matching dogs with owners depending on your situation, and won't just sell you any puppy that comes along. They also provide a fantastic 'after service' if you have any problems with your puppy and need help. If you want to see any photos of mine you can read their blog here Even if you decide not to buy from Noonbarra, I would recommend purchasing their book 'Kelpie Basics' - full of great information and training advice, especially if it is your first kelpie. If you end up deciding on a show line you could certainly ask for advice in the kelpie thread as most of the contributors appear to be 'showies' so could point you in the right direction. Good Luck with making your choice.

Aussielover - From reading your posts you are obviously a responsible dog owner with some knowledge of dog behaviour, unfortunately the guy who sounded so rude doesn't know that, just as you don't know the history behind him feeling the need to speak like that. As I have already said that I too would probably give a similar response if the need ever arose, I am guessing that like me, in the past he has had quite a few incidents with other dog owners not quite so responsible and is now sick of it, so has decided that he will take drastic measures to keep anyone away. As lots of others have said, it is also quite possible that the dog is not aggressive at all - although I spoke about my kelpie that doesn't like strange dogs,(and very rarely gives any response that I would label as aggression, btw, it's more of an ears down, tail between the legs, I'm uncomfortable with the situation type response) I also have one that is a total social butterfly but I would probably make the same response when strange dogs approached him too as basically I don't want my dogs interacting with another dog until I have some information about that dog first. You are right in that a politer response may have kept sensible people away, but I have found from my experience that the vast majority of people I have encountered in offlead parks are actually not all that sensible. So I would take his comments as being aimed at the vast majority of people rather than at you personally - I feel awful afterwards if I have to make a rude response to a stranger, but my dogs come first and it's often a spur of the moment response that is 'dramatic' because it is the only thing that works. The issue of aggressive dogs being in public places is a whole other one not necessarily related to this thread and taking it off track , but from what I understand this particular dog is being labelled as aggressive totally on the words of the owner - and as several of us have said there could be other reasons for that- and at no time did the dog's actions support this.

Well said !

Totally agree. One of mine hates other dogs getting in his face and even though he will generally ignore the other dog and try to get away from it before he snaps, I don't want him in that situation if I can help it. So I would quite happily tell someone else that he is aggressive and will rip their dog's head off - even though that is a gross exaggeration - because I am sick and tired of people who don't listen when you ask them nicely. My latest moronic encounter in an offlead park - which I usually avoid like the plague but in this case had to either cut through or walk on the road with 3 dogs - my dogs all on lead on the absolute extreme edge of the park, group of people standing around quite a way from me talking and ignoring their dogs that are all running free. Huge rottie comes flying over to my dogs (I don't have a problem with the breed, just stating what it was) and sticks its head right in my scaredy cat's face, so I push myself between him and the rottie and call out 'will you please call your dog, mine doesn't like strange dogs approaching him like this' to which he replies, 'that's your fault for having him on lead love , just let him off and he'll be fine.' So yeah, I would prefer to be rude and offend someone than have my dog put up with this sort of crap which happens way too often - you have no way of knowing who is a responsible dog owner and has effective voice control in a brief chance encounter.

You can find all the Victorian agility trials listed here : http://www.agilitytrials.info/ No agility at agricultural shows unless a club is doing a demo maybe.

Non competing dogs are usually welcome at any public ground providing they don't disrupt ANY class and not just the Top Dog run off. Trial starts at 8:30am and the Top Dog event is usually held over the lunchtime break. There is plenty of space for you to give your non-competing dogs a good walk around at KCC park without being anywhere near the rings so go for it.

Oops, deleted.

I don't look at youtube much as I am still out in the sticks on dial up, but would imagine there's very likely something there. It seems to be a lot more common in the US than here, but then that could also relate to the sheer number of competitors over there compared to us too. I know Elicia Calhoun has given seminars specifically for mobility challenged handlers and fills them each time she offers them. Last time she was here she was talking about how she got into a wheelchair to see what it was like moving around a course and how hard it was. We have a lady in a motorised wheelchair competing in Victoria and she does a really good job with her dog. We also have another lady at Masters level who has MS and is very restricted in her movement and her kelpie has the most incredible distance skills. Pretty sure she actually won a Masters agility ring a few weeks back. Her dog is so responsive it brings tears to your eyes and is beautiful to watch.

This fellow is Greg Derret in his Foundation Training DVD. I have taught my dog to spin "back" (left) & "close" (right) & find it very handy for doing either a tight wrap round or for directing her to a tight turn to another obstacle. I am so bad with my lefts & rights though that it is a stategy I have to work out when walking the course as I can't think that quickly while running. It also may have been Rob Michalski on one of the 'Agility in Motion' videozines. He had a few segments across 3 or 4 DVD's where he taught a similar thing and then used it on tunnel discriminations I think. There is a wheelchair bound competitor in the US (Cheryl Minchinello, Michello? something like that) who has developed her own system of handling she calls 'directional control' and basically parks herself on course and handles most of the course with verbals. Totally amazing !

If I had to shop reasonably local (within half an hour to 40 minutes) I would prefer to use Petstock at Sth Morang. Not that cheap but if you get a member's card then your purchases accumulate and you get good discounts as a reward. The staff there are really nice too, but unfortunately they don't have a great range of stuff in regard to most Petstocks any more. Don't like Mega Pet warehouse at Epping, rude staff and not all that helpful or knowledgeable either. Best Friends at Thomastown have an excellent range but not that cheap. If I want good prices then I keep on going towards the city to Salces on High Street at Northcote. There is also another discount pet supplies at Thornbury, just a few blocks closer but Salce have the best range.

SG does have a running contact on AF - when she was here last time she spoke about it briefly but wouldn't give too many details - wondering if she was possibly thinking about future DVD. Only thing she would disclose was that she taught an all 4 feet in the contact zone, so am guessing she used a method similar to Rachel Sander's box method- which has been released as a DVD since then so maybe that idea is not happening any more. She also stated that the only reason she taught a running contact to this particular dog was that she wanted to win worlds - and when you are talking .02 and times like this separating competitors she believed it may give her an edge. She said that she would not recommend it to anyone else as she didn't believe it was 100% reliable and indeed does not teach it to anyone else. Not sure if she is actually more actively promoting it now or not - will be interesting to see when she comes back this year. Doubt that SG (or most of the top trainers) would ever 'early' release on a contact - more likely to quick release which is not the same thing although it may look similar when watching. I agree with the above, but I think you'll find SG has both a running and a 2o2o with Encore and Feature. Whether she uses them is another matter. Greg wouldn't cough up any info either. Yep- she definitely said she has trained both with Encore. Interesting that she has carried it over with Feature as well. I think I'd be happy if I could train just one method I was pleased with I'm definitely having mind meltdown having 2 dogs with different contact methods - as you saw on Saturday I can't always remember which dog I am running, but it's interesting when the running contact dog will still give you 2o2o if you ask for it - even though he hasn't done that for a couple of years :D A lot to be said for the power of what you learn first.

SG does have a running contact on AF - when she was here last time she spoke about it briefly but wouldn't give too many details - wondering if she was possibly thinking about future DVD. Only thing she would disclose was that she taught an all 4 feet in the contact zone, so am guessing she used a method similar to Rachel Sander's box method- which has been released as a DVD since then so maybe that idea is not happening any more. She also stated that the only reason she taught a running contact to this particular dog was that she wanted to win worlds - and when you are talking .02 and times like this separating competitors she believed it may give her an edge. She said that she would not recommend it to anyone else as she didn't believe it was 100% reliable and indeed does not teach it to anyone else. Not sure if she is actually more actively promoting it now or not - will be interesting to see when she comes back this year. Doubt that SG (or most of the top trainers) would ever 'early' release on a contact - more likely to quick release which is not the same thing although it may look similar when watching. Tiggy, crate games are really good for teaching the focus forward so then it is in place before you ever get near equipment. I also do it with mine and their food bowl at dinner time - set them up like a start line and stand in various postions around the room and they need to look away from me at the bowl in front of them (not hard) before releasing them.

If the dog's front feet leave the obstacle without touching the colour BEFORE the back feet make contact, the back foot/feet touching is classed as 'incidental contact' and can be faulted by a judge if they choose to do so. I actually had this happen on the A Frame with my young dog a few weeks back - the judge didn't fault me but did call me over afterwards and talk about it and suggested that some other judges may have pinged it. (Always pays not to p**s off judges ;) ) Luckily this is not his usual contact performance and was actually the first time he has done it, but it's certainly not something that I would be accepting in training as it's another of those 'grey' areas that make the judges think. Yep- I also have the problem of 'big, bounding strides' with this dog - the kelpie-giraffe cross who jumps 600 and has the longest legs in the world. I would think it would only be an issue with a running contact - which this dog has on the AF and not on the DW, not necessarily my contact method of choice but too long and involved story to go there. I don't think it would be possible to get this type of scenario with a stopped contact, unless you had a dog that was leaping into the 2020 position from a long way up, which I have never seen.

Would be very interested in reading this, could you please point me in the direction of where I can find it. Is it the actual running A Frame performance or the amount of repetitions needed to train and maintain it?

I can see the turn out you describe clearly from the photos. Just looking at that I would agree that he may be putting abnormal stress on another place (possibly the shoulder joint, although that is just a hunch as I am not qualified with doggy anatomy in way) Have you noticed a preference with his lead leg changes when making tight turns ? If it were me, I would certainly continue with the Bowen therapist - worth a try, but would also be getting a recommendation from the agility community in Perth as to the best muscle/massage therapist they know. Try physio as well, but I would want to explore this with more than just physio I think. You may have to consider trying more than one. For me personally I would go with one who has had Equissage training, only because they seem to be more adept at pinpointing problems in my experience, but that's my personal experience only. I would probably avoid one who works mainly on greyhounds for something that is not quite so clear cut. Again, I occasionally use a 'greyhound manipulator' for everyday type manipulation with one of my other dogs and he is great, but have found that they are often not quite as good at 'problem solving' when it's something a bit out of the ordinary. But again that's just my personal experience and there are probably exceptions. He is still a young dog so it won't hurt any to take some time off - if you find a good therapist they will also be able to give you some exercises for building up muscle tone on the foreleg, which from the photo also looks as if it might need work.

Can I ask a couple of questions - how old is Toby now ? Where exactly was the fracture (assuming fracture?) and how close to the carpal joint? My older kelpie broke his right front leg at 2 years of age - your photo brings back a lot of memories ! There were complications in that it didn't heal as quickly as vet expected, plus he was plated,wired and screwed within an inch of his life. After 3 lots of major surgery we had 12 months off agility training in total and then another 3 months off trialling while I brought him back very slowly, despite being given the all clear from the vet that he was fine. A couple of years back he went through a period where he occasionally slowed down and refused jumps - I tried vet plus 3 different muscle therapists (all of who said there was nothing wrong )before I hit on a brilliant therapist who watched him walk for all of about 15 seconds and went straight to the spot. There was an area in his back that was totally jammed up that she believed would have been a throw back to the original accident that no one had ever picked before - she even described the type of accident that would have needed to occur to have created this and was spot on ! My advice (if he is still a young dog) would be to temporarily retire him and keep trying until you can get an answer. Depending on how long ago he had the accident and what the accident actually was, there may be another area that is causing him a problem like there was with mine. We did a lot of swimming with ours which also helped - do you have access to an underwater treadmill anywhere ? Other things that were good were herbal remedies from Robert McDowell (google), videoing him to have a look at his jumping take off/landing to see if there was anything I could pinpoint (therapist also did a house visit and watched him jump ) plus I changed my contacts from stopped to running as I didn't like the position he was hitting with his wrist, especially on the A Frame. Despite having access to an A Frame at home, this is also one piece of equipment that I very rarely train with him - and when I do it is no more than 2 or 3 repetitions at a time. Even though running contact is not 100% reliable I would prefer to miss one every now and then. I consider myself lucky to have had 4 years trialling since his accident- even though they have been very interrupted due to me being a sook and pulling him out at the slightest sign of anything - but I wouldn't risk his health for anything just for an agility trial. I hope you find some answers and understand totally how hard it is.

Do you have a copy of the book 'Agility Right from the Start'? Awesome book and it has everything you could ever need beginning with puppy foundation and working up to teaching obstacles and sequencing way down the track. I used SG's Foundation pack notes, Laura D's foundation seminar notes, GD and Moe S's DVD's, plus crate games and one jump and a few other assorted refs to design my puppy training program - and after getting this book would have to say everything is pretty much in there that I took from all those other places. Plus the authors are certified TAG teachers and promote the Derrett system of handling. Air Dogs have a good price on it atm, plus you can go on their website (www.agilityrightfromthe start.com) and download contents and watch a few clips of them training some of the exercises. Apologies, not letting me add a link this morning for some strange reason?? So....what are you getting (guessing BC?) and where from???? At Mrs RB and the ACD X NFI. Fanny Gott and Justine Davenport have some really good clips on their blogs showing a lot of their puppy training stuff, plus Nancy Gyes blog also.

Anyone with very basic carpentry skills could make you one - and I mean basic, my OH made 2 up for me for when I begin seesaw training with my youngest dog, sorry I can't add photos as I am using them in the Foundation class I teach and have left them down at club. But after watching him do it, I think I could just about tackle it myself next time. Basically the only thing you need is someone with a drill. We used a piece of outdoor exterior ply for the top - think it was 12mm thick? Cut it ourselves into app. 1m X1m but somewhere like Bunnings will cut it for you if you need them to. OH glued and screwed offcuts of decking all around the edge to give it some stability and then also used offcuts of decking for the legs, which are non-adjustable. Glued and screwed these on as well. Then I sanded the edges (you can do it by hand as it will only have minimal 'roughness' from where it was cut) and threw some sand into the paint I used and mixed it together and painted the top. Also filled the screw holes with the sand mixture and that seems to have worked. Only took one afternoon to make. It has had all size dogs on it weekly in class since Feb. and is holding up fine. Probably cost around $40 to $50 when you factor in the cost of the paint, screws and glue, etc. Think the piece of board was around $35.

No self respecting kelpie would sleep anywhere near anyone wearing Old Spice, even if there were horses and boats involved :D One of my kelpies does a very similar thing every now and then with his usual spot on the couch - won't get onto that spot for any reason and takes himself off to his crate if you try and make him - although he will happily jump onto a chair or the bed or another spot on the couch instead. It usually lasts around 2 or 3 days and then he is back to normal. I think kelpies are just a little bit special at times.

Thanks for that - my agility entries are sitting here about to be posted so good timing

The bunny style tugs Clean Run stock are also available in Australia here Think she has them in stock at the moment as she always has toys on display at trials in Melbourne. Plus Air Dogs stock them as well.

;) for TAG teaching ! Especially if you make sure that students know what your specific tag points are before beginning any exercise. I think that just like dogs, people are more confident if they know that the exercise has many parts to it and that they can at least experience success with one part of it if they can't get it all right straight away. (eg: when learning a front cross a student's footwork might be all over the place and their timing is off, but they kept their eye on their dog /or imaginary dog the whole way through the turn. There's something you can tag that is positive and so can give a confidence boost in what the student may be thinking of as an 'unsuccessful' exercise.) We break things down into really small manageable parts for our dogs but often don't do it enough for ourselves and expect success a lot faster than it often happens. I know I need to reminded of this and I think everyone else does too on occasions.