kelpiechick

www.tug-e-nuff.co.uk They have some great looking toys too but unfortunately won't post their toys OS as they haven't paid to insure them, DVD's are OK though. Definitely worthwhile adding to your collection IMO. He breaks every exercise down into flatwork, one jump, two jumps, three jumps, etc. and is very big on creating a balance between working close and driving ahead.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said in that most people use the terms to mean the same thing. Call 'em what you want, it's up to you. (You say potato ........) At the end of the day it's just a 'label' - I don't care what anyone calls either type of training, whether it's working on the flat or working on moves without your dog but someone asked a question and I answered ..... obviously I talk to different people than you. For me they are NOT the same training exercise so I like to call them different things, especially as I do a lot of working on both. My defintion comes from a US trainer who was confused when people here called them the same thing and so offered her definition .... and her explanation made total sense to me so I have since stuck to it. Before that I called them the same thing too. It now helps me to think of them as different things in my mind anyway. To give an example, if I were working on a training plan for focussing on acceleration/deceleration as was mentioned by TSD then I would plan to do shadow handling without my dog first, to make sure my body signals were clear and I wasn't decelerating at the wrong time or place (also helps if you can get an equally silly friend to role play and be your 'dog' when you are doing this, thankfully I have one of those, LOL) or that there was a clear difference in my change of pace for my dog. (Sometimes we get so tuned into running like mad we think we are slowing down when we are actually not really slowing all that much) Then when I was happy I had my part right, I would add the dog into the equation and do the associated flatwork - straight line, circles, recalls - all with accel and decel, I would even integrate it into my crate games. Then I would go to adding an obstacle, etc. etc. and keep building on it step by step. It helps me with my planning to think of shadow handling and flatwork as 2 different things so when I develop an action plan in regard to training something it reminds me to always work on the moves without my dog first which is something that I think is very much neglected here. And there is certainly a lot more to 'flatwork' than just circle work, that's for sure - have a look at the new Dave Munnings DVD -he does a ton of flatwork exercises before his dogs ever get onto obstacles and you can see the results, circle work is only one little part of it.

Shadow handling is practicing your moves withouth the dog( a lot of people confuse it with flatwork) so things like front cross footwork, lead out pivot footwork, serpentine footwork/arms, etc. Flatwork is running/moving with your dog 'on the flat' with no obstacles, so things like circle running, running to a motivator on the ground, lead out pivots with no jumps, etc. In fact all the moves that you teach in foundation before getting on equipment.

Not sure which trial you were left out from, but in the last issue with pictures of the winners from the Scottish Breeds trial, there were a number of people left out because they didn't stay behind after presentation to have their photos taken, as requested. It was announced at the beginning of presentation that the winners of each ring were requested to stay behind and have their photos taken, (plus the photographer also called out for everyone at the end) then email addys were collected so the photographer could send out the photos to check that she had the correct details for each photo. So in this case, it wouldn't have anything to do with Dogs Vic. as they are only publishing what was sent to them by the club, and the club only sent in the photos that they had. It's actually pretty rare that agility trial winners are photographed for Vic. Dog - I guess most clubs don't send them in or even when they do they don't always get published - secretary from Scottish Breeds was saying they have sent them in over the last couple of years and haven't had them included, so this was a 'rarity'. Sorry you got left out twice, as it's only usually done by smaller trials like Scottish Breeds or big ones like Royal, etc. my advice would be to make sure you get included in the photographs next time you win a ring - ask around if there are photos being taken if you are not sure.

Congratulations to Jess and Darcy on winning Victorian 'Top Dog' Jumping run off today. I know how hard you have worked and you thoroughly deserve it ! An excellent result Now, maybe I can pass along a certain feral young lady to you and you can sort her out for me as it doesn't seem that long ago that quite a few feral comments....... well you know what I mean. Awesome work !

Mine ventilation ducting or mineflex. If you get Sheila or Joe on the phone they will know what you want if you tell them agility tunnels.

Plasticoat in Victoria, also trading as Plascorp. Chambers Rd Altona North 03 9391 4011

I would have to disagree with doing both being a win-win. I don't handle nor teach Derrett style agility so it would actually create conflict rather than be complimentary. I am sure there are similarities in all systems with regards to drive & reward building, but there are some vast training & handling differences. I did have conversations with a number of people when I was in melb last year about a non Derrett handling system and it does seem that there is a demand for someone to teach it in Melb. I am not anti Derrett, it's just not how I have chosen to handle. Really? I didn't pick up that it was primarily a handling seminar from reading your topics, but more of training approach. My mistake obviously. I agree that there are vast differences in the handling but I don't see so much in the training. In fact most of the top agility handlers focus on creating and using drive effectively in their training no matter what system they run so I think a lot of what you are offering would be very worthwhile. (Wasn't trying to imply you were a GD handler with the 'win-win' comment as I know you are not, sorry) I would never not attend a seminar because it was being run by a non-Derrett handler if I thought the training component would be worthwhile for me. In fact some of the handlers I have learnt heaps from would be Elicia Calhoun, Ann Croft, Silvia Trkman, Dave Munnings and Daisy Peel, none of whom run Derrett. I believe that handling is only one small part of agility and that getting good habits in place with good training is just as important if not more. In fact Laura's foundation seminar last time would have been valuable to anyone using any handling system as it was totally training based and it's a pity that a lot of Victorians didn't attend based on handling as they would have gotten heaps out of it. Not sure who you were talking to in Victoria, but I wouldn't say the GD system was dominant, in fact I can only think of 3 clubs that teach it and only a small number of handlers who use it - it's just that some of them have a lot of success and are quite vocal, so people think everyone here is using it, which is not the case by a long shot. I believe Action Dogs is based more on Linda Mecklenburg's system as is most of what goes down at Agility Dog Club, I am defintely the odd one out there that's for sure, luckily they are open minded about letting me handle things differently. In fact we don't appear to have the us and them mentality that exists in some other states, I don't think anyone really cares who handles in what way here. I think you are selling yourself short if you don't think your presentation isn't valuable to Derrett handlers, topics sound pretty good to me. If you can't harness your dog's drive effectively then your agility career isn't going anywhere no matter what handling system you choose to follow so I think it would short sighted for NSW GD handlers not to consider attending, especially if having a problem with building drive. I will PM details to the couple of people asking about Derrett in Melb. as it's not my intention to hijack this thread.

Greg and Laura Derrett are coming to Melbourne early February next year. They train with very similar methods to those outlined in the workshop - Laura's foundation workshops are brilliant if she offers them again, with a lot of emphasis on creating drive for playing with you and with toys and then using it effectively in training. So you will at least be able to take advantage of those if Vickie doesn't manage a trip to Melbourne. But interstate agility related trips are fun so you could always do both. Win-Win!

My BC drops at the end of the contacts in 2on 2off. Criteria when teaching was elbows on ground, touching the edge of plank and rest of body on wood so it's definitely not 4 on the floor. I used UK trainer Toni Dawkins method to train (outlined on her DVD Ultimate Contacts) and I am really pleased with the results so far. Reason I decided to try it, having trained 2on 2off before with a nose touch, was that she was offering the 'BC crouch' at the end naturally, so I decided to go with something a little different that appeared to be a more natural behaviour for her - Toni chooses this method with her BC's for the same reason and elaborates on why she thinks it gives a faster performance on the DVD. 2on 2off can have a variety of positions at the end, nose touch, standing, drop, etc. All depends how you train it and what your criteria is. Downside for me is that I now have 3 dogs with 3 different contact performances and have to remember which dog I am running at the time.

You probably need to contact the club (assuming this is a club that trains indoors on Wednesdays?) For most outdoor classes it wouldn't matter but I am not sure of the actual set up at that club and I know that space is very limited. Why not contact Michelle and ask?

Anything from 6 days to 3 weeks - also depends if it gets opened at customs or not. Probably just under 2 weeks is the average. I don't order from them any more though unless it's on free postage, their customer service might be good but their postage rate is astronomical compared to everywhere else in the US.

The last contact I had for them was to email : [email protected] Even if someone else is organising them now, I'm sure Penny will point you in the right direction.

Lovely ! Emma was such a lucky girl to spend her last few years with someone who loved her so much. I have a friend with a BC with Ellagant bloodlines (father was an Ellagant dog) and he looks very similar to Emma, will try and find a photo for you. My friend was also a member of KODTC for a couple of years where he worked his younger BC - and ran some NADAC trials too I believe, small world.

Nose touching a target and putting food on a target are not variations of one another but totally different methodologies in that putting food on a target for the dog to move to and then eat is a BIG FAT LURE. SG would send lightning bolts your way for even mentioning them in the same breath. I would recommend purchasing SG's foundation training notes as she goes through using a nose touch to a target in extreme detail in here and breaks it down into very easy to understand step by step. In a nutshell, the dog never moves to the target, behaviour is transferred from hand to disc, then onto the flat, then on contact board, before putting target at end of steps - dropped in between dog's legs in correct position and then cued for behaviour. (Same thing should be happening on contact board) Target is also faded on the steps before end behaviour goes to lowered contact - so if you have a couple of steps and a board at home you can train the whole end behaviour before going onto equipment, and you won't need your target either. (Although it may have to be dropped in a few times when you do get onto lowered equipment to help dog generalise- only when backchaining end position though, dog never runs to disc as it then becomes a lure - them's SG's rules anyway.) I don't believe a dog trained with food on target as a lure is thinking at all about their body and end behaviour, all they are doing is adapting their body position in such a way to be able to grab the food, which is all they are thinking about and consequently makes the target/lure very hard to fade.

Using it when I can get it - the supply appears to be an ongoing problem and is very annoying. When I can't get it I use Artemis - coat is not as good when feeding this and I notice the difference when I go back to EP.

This topic could be the story of my life at the moment, as both my kelpies have had episodes of limping since early in the year and agility trialling has been practically non-existant for them. My younger kelpie's limp was also from his shoulder, vet said to give it app. 4 to 6 weeks but honestly it was more like 8 to 10 weeks so definitely give it more time. Plus he has only just turned 5 so I would expect recovery to possibly be a bit faster than with a 10 year old dog in most cases. There could also be a slight strain to the tendon involved plus the beginnings of arthritis in the joint. I understand how hard it is just waiting to see improvement, I got to the point where I thought he was never going to get better at one stage. Hang in there. Even though it is very difficult to keep a kelpie from running and jumping I would definitely be lifting your girl onto the bed and into the car - it might be a small jump but not small for an injured shoulder if you know what I mean. If you have access to a good muscle therapist you could visit in conjunction with your vet, some laser therapy might help.

yep KC - I'll be at Moorrabbin so would love to see it . Would everyone recommend the Mesh coat or the actual dog coat? Sounds like they all have great reviews and yup Tassie I agree - for an older dog, even if they don't work injury wise I think they would be great as a warm up/ warm down coat as well as for the golden oldies . tassie - I can't view your pic It says I don't have access Would love to know where people source it from - the WA supplier is out of stock, the NZ one seems pretty pricey and if shipping is not too bad, it seems buying from the UK is significantly cheaper. Lucky for me my brother lives there so I could ship to his place,then get him to post as that may work out cheaper (some advertise free shipping to UK).... LP Will bring mine to Moorabbin - the poor injured one is still not running so will most likely be wearing it and can model it for you. Fitting is a bugger, if you don't get the neck to tail right it won't fit. They are actually designed to be a bit big in the body so they cover more area and you can adjust the belly band fairly easily. In regard to price, it is impossible to get a 100% accurate conversion of what you will pay from NZ as the dollar changes slightly all the time, but $140 NZ will generally convert to between $100 and $110 Australian depending on the day, so I don't find the price difference between the two to be all that great. Especially as the Aus. distributor seems to be permanently out of of stock and makes no effort to rectify this IMO. I actually applied to be a distributor as I believe in this product and think there is definitely a market for it in the agility community, but because they already have one in Aus. they weren't keen on another - unless it was the horse gear which appears to be anyone can do it. Don't know why they seem to think that the dog market is not as strong, but thems the breaks. If I could source the fabric I would go into making up some myself, but that's all heavily 'protected' too.

That is correct. PME if you want the name of a good muscle therapist let me know.

Are you sure ? When I last did the conversion from NZ dollars it was less than $10 difference. I decided to give the Aussie distributor another go after you had no problems with them - ordered 2 more coats, order goes through, they send confirmation email, all OK. 3 days later they send another email saying they made an error and don't have the sizes I need and as it will be another 3 weeks before they get them in they have refunded my money. I would have happily waited the 3 weeks, but doesn't seem like they want the business to me - so ended up ordering from NZ again as I am happy to pay an extra $10 or so for prompt service, including responding to emails. Not impressed with Aussie distributor in the slightest as you can tell - but great product and would definitely recommend it.

Have used mesh coat on one of my kelpies and human products on myself following surgery and am a big fan. In fact I also told Ness how much I liked them when she was first deciding so maybe my opinion isn't worth it either ? I bought mine ,and will continue to, (but I know I disagree with Ness on this one -LOL) from New Zealand - Australian distributor is rude as hell and unreliable with their product supply. If you want to have a look at mine before you decide I might be at a trial sometime, that is if Victoria ever schedules any more agility trials and doesn't keep cancelling them all. Will hopefully be at Moorrabbin if that helps.

That is just awful. Very sad to hear this and I hope you get some answers at least. Hang in there and hug your gorgeous girls.

Hospital ? One night was enough for me so I truly sympathise. Hope you get to bust out of there really soon and are not too bored in the meantime. Barkly on the other hand is probably getting spoiled rotten, LOL.

Yes, I remember you from Altona - and the adorable Scooter. I can only answer from the 2 clubs that I am a member of, plus I am not 100% sure about Agility Dog Club as even though I still instruct there occasionally, I am not involved with committee or with training co-ordination. ADCV takes dogs into foundation class from 9 months if a 'newbie' or from 6 months if with an experienced trainer who has trained dogs for agility before. I have no involvement with the waiting list so not sure at what age you can get your name down from. (you would need to talk to Murray) I don't think that there would be any priority given to trialling aspirations, but again can't answer 100% on this. (There never used to be, put it that way. At BAD we take into our Foundation Class from 12 months (was 9 months but we have recently reviewed this) and from 9 months with an experienced trainer. Dogs cannot progress to the first level of Intermediate before 12 months absolute minimum though, as we begin teaching 2x2 weaves there. Last year we had someone put their dog on the waiting list at around 12 weeks of age, to make sure they got in. Getting to be like enrolling in private school, LOL. We were happy for them to do this and the dog is now in Foundation at 9 months as this person already has a dog working in a higher class and we know their level of experience. We don't give priority to anyone, trialling or otherwise. We do have an 'unwritten' exception (sshh, don't tell) where we ask on our website for volunteers to steward at our agility trial in May and explicitly point out that waiting list aspirants are very welcome. We had one person from the middle of the waiting list respond and stewarded for us all day at our trial last month - so you can guess where they are on the waiting list now?????? Our rationale is that if they are continuing to look at the website to keep up to date with us, and are then willing to give their time when they are not even a club member yet, then they deserve to get a little priority. My advice would be to talk to any club that you want to join in the future to see if you can get your name added, ASAP. Start working on foundation exercises at home, things like crate games,(you can teach pretty much 80% of the future agility skills you will need through this) it's your choice, building not just toy drive, but the desire to play with you in general, tons of shaping and teaching tricks, the list goes on and I'm sure you know anyway. OT was reading your thread in another section, hope Luke is OK.

Big Bang and Little Bang