sandgrubber

Chocolate/Liver is one of the three accepted colours for Labradors. Everyone likes chocolate better than liver, except, perhaps, the dogs, so no one ever refers to 'liver's'. I've long been curious whether liver meant that Weimerarner grey colour you get from cooked liver or the bloody dark red of the raw stuff. If it's the grey, then doesn't that approve the 'silver' Labrador as a choco? I've never seen a raw-liver colour on a Lab.

You might ask this on a rescue forum. I think you'll get the answer that it's damn hard to tell. It's pretty common for rescues to cut the girl open for desexing only to find that it's already been done.

MIght add that the 19th century gun dog breeding was affected in a major way by the importation of a few hundred, perhaps more, St John's water dogs from eastern Canada. These, in their various forms (longer/shorter coats, larger/smaller sizes) were x-bred into existing lines to varying extents, but without the genetic input, we wouldn't have the modern Labrador, Goldie, or Newfoundland. The rat terrier is still traceable to several breeds, including beagle, whippet, and various smaller terriers . . . and is (like the poodle and Xolo) recognised in three sizes. Dog roles have changed. No 19th century breeder was breeding for flyball, agility, or dock diving. Many were bred for some combination of cart pulling, guarding, vermin control, hunting, and herding. Hunting upland game is a very restricted niche in Australia, dog carts are rare, few herding breeds get a chance to herd, and earth dogs get in trouble when they spoil the lawn. Breeds should not be fossilized into the form they took when the stud books closed. Especially where the existing forms have narrow genetic basises and widespread health problems. The 'pure bred' label does not need to mean 'unchanged since 1900' nor should it deny the emergence of new breeds. Is this to say that DD's are good? Not at all. There are no data to work from (that I know of), but I'd guess that a large fraction of DD's come from indiscriminate breeding, without health testing, etc. and with no tracing of pedigree. Such dogs are going nowhere in 'breed' terms. In response to the question, 'what will the public think'? The public don't think that highly of the pedigree dog world now. If they see us with our bums held high and our heads in the sand, it won't improve our public image.

A group with a collective IQ of 87? This is in the Cockburn Council's fire regs . . .which I believe are similar to those in many WA councils. Basically says if you own 5 acres or more you must have a bare earth firebreak of 3 m around your house, barn, etc. The shire is extremely sandy. The fire crews say they can't use the fire breaks as access because vehicles bog in the sand. The result is often a ~3m strip on one side of a fence, a ~ 3m strip on the other side, and a nice clump of grass and weeds and eventually bushes growing around the fence . . . so as to provide fuel to allow any fire to cross the firebreak. To really make these things trafficable, you have to strip and apply roadbase, which, of course, no one does. (2) As to land, which is greater than 2032m2 in area, shall have a trafficable firebreak three (3) metres in width cleared to mineral earth subject to the following requirements: (a) immediately inside all external boundaries of the land; and (b) immediately surrounding buildings (if any) situated on the land; and © immediately surrounding all fuel dumps and ramps (if any) on the land; and (d) in any event, clear the firebreaks to the satisfaction of the local government or an authorised person.

Anybody here know the history of the WA 2-dog rule (which sets the default number of dogs/household at 2 but gives the councils the power to change the limit and grant exceptions)? An old Ocker I know said this law came in in the 70s cause lots of bushies were moving to the 'burbs and brought their pig dogs along. As he told it, this lead to situations where the streets were dangerous. Is this more or less true?

From Kingston City Council. The rangers there, at least, seem to be applying 'the standard' in a way that doesn't make SBT x's into restricted breeds. With three days to go, I'm surprised that this topic has gone silent. Last chance to register restricted breed dogs Kingston City Council will have the right to seize and destroy any unregistered pit bull terriers in the municipality after Thursday 29 September. The new power follows the Victorian Government's introduction of legislation earlier this month which permits Councils to seize unregistered restricted breed dogs. Restricted breeds include pit bull terriers, American pit bull terriers, Fila Brasileiro, Dogo Argentino, Japanese tosa and Perro de Presa Canario. In the past few weeks Kingston City Council has received numerous calls from residents concerned that their dog might have pit bull terrier ancestry. Local laws rangers have inspected these animals and not found any dogs of concern. The State Government's 'dob in a dangerous dog' hotline has referred four calls to Kingston City Council. Council officers confirmed that three of the reported dogs were not restricted breeds. Investigations are continuing into the fourth dog. The fee to register dangerous, menacing or restricted breed dogs is $170. The fee to register most other dogs is $44.

That is equally as stupid as the recent Vic legislation setting forward a visual standard for forbidden breeds. Sadly, I don't see dog people uniting in opposition to either stupid piece of legislation. . . or the NSW regs that in effect make it illegal to use the back bedroom as a whelping room. There were some rallies about the Vic BSL. Some people wrote letters. But it's four days before Victoria's draconian laws come into effect and try finding any coverage of any organised resistance. There was a stir when the laws were announced. But it has gone quiet. Did anyone even notice the Vic law about puppy vaccinations? You'd think no one would object to adding parvo to the lists, and it would have been reasonably easy to do.

This suggests a great form of civil disobedience. Everyone, call in a Labrador, call in a greyhound, call in a JRT, call in a boxer, call in a papered SBT or two, call in anything that can't possibly be identified as a pit bull. Keep them flooded with calls and make it clear that the 'standard' is a farce.

Juvenile behaviour seems to be a hallmark of Australian govetnment as a whole. Unlike the US, where we have fully mature raving loonies carrying guns.

The document Steve refers to states: "In reality, unenforceable ordinances unite responsible pet owners, irresponsible pet owners and non pet owners in their opposi- tion to animal control." Unfortunately, I don't think this is true. I live in a California county that has breeder registration (which requires an annual letter from the vet and $70 for each dog) and mandatory spey/neuter for dogs not covered by non-neutered certificates. The program has been in place for a few decades. It includes very generous subsidies for spay/neuter for those with lower incomes. (It'll cost me $40 to do either a spay or neuter). The document is correct about some things . . . most people just don't bother to register their dogs, and there's little money for enforcement. [Also no upsurgence in rabies]. People are so upset about other things (like high unemployment, high foreclosure rates, vicious humans, drugs . . . and on and on) that there's no, underline no, visible opposition to animal control. We have the usual problems with dogs that bark all night, occasional vicious dogs attacking other dogs or people, and wandering dogs that get killed by cars and/or become a nuisance. These dogs tend to end up in shelters, which make an effort to return them to their families or rehome them, but many/most get pts. Sure, people are upset when they get a $200 fine for not registering their animals. But they are alone in their upset, not part of any organised resistance.

So teach them to stop at a distance from you to get their fist full of treats. Or gradually substitute a clicker for the treats :D

For those who say X-breeds are not bred for a purpose, there are some X-breeds that are purpose bred. For example, a segment of the protection dog business is working to beef up the mastiff. Do some web search on bandog or bandogge and you'll come up with some breeders who do lots of genetic testing, select their dogs carefully, and some are making heaps of money doing so. This outfit, for example, is a multinational kennel that does testing up the yin-yang, charges high prices, and exports all over the world: http://www.oldbulldo...outbulldogs.php http://www.oldbulldo...-guarantee1.php I don't think Ken and Barbie will be getting one of these, though. Btw, does anyone know what an Australian bandog mastiff is? Are they already capitalising on creating dogs that will pass the Vic regulations and have even greater macho appeal than the APBT?

It's more complicated than that. Several US states still permit very large, extremely capitalistic puppy farms, some of whom breed AKC registered dogs. They are working to regulate, but recent measures don't go much further than requiring veterinary care, modest standards of care, and not keeping dogs in stacked wire cages with wire bottoms. The level of abuse is clear in that recent advances have outlawed practices such as DIY ceasarian sections and debarking operations. Recent laws in PA only apply to establishments with 50+ dogs. There are other states that forbid selling live animals in petstores and some counties in California have mandatory desexing for all except breeders who have registered (and paid) to keep unaltered animals . . . so it's not uniform.

"Q – Who is pursuing this Pit Bull witch - hunt with such gusto? What is there to gain from this by those wanting to restrict and potentially eradicate Pit Bulls in Australia? A - Private contractors who supply rangers to seize the dogs and pounds to hold them while owners fight in the courts." Any indication this is true? The figures that follow are all from the UK. As someone who has thoughts of returning to Oz, I find it distressing that the DOL community is paying little attention to this issue with less than a week to go before the 30 Sept. deadline.

Guilt trips are not a good way to change behaviour. I'd say building a link between grumpy and pain, based on human analogies, might lead to people owning the notion that their dog is in pain, rather than reacting to it as an unwanted obligation someone was trying to foist off on them.

Just heard a fascinating and moving radio interview with the author of a book about Rin-Tin-Tin. Here's the link: http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2011/09/24/140746523/rin-tin-tin-from-battlefield-to-hollywood-a-story-of-friendship Here's a short extract from the web page. The full interview can be downloaded from the above link Author Susan Orlean's new book, Rin Tin Tin: The Life And The Legend, traces the history of Duncan and "Rinty," as Duncan called him, exploring both the career of a very famous dog and the relationship he shared with the owner who both adored him as a pet and turned him into a very profitable business. On Weekend Edition Saturday, Orlean talks to Scott Simon about some of what she discovered in researching this unusual partnership between a man and his dog. It wasn't a coincidence, she says, that Duncan was the one to rescue a pup who had no one; he had spent five years in an orphanage himself as a child. Even when the same mother who had left him there came back to get him, she took him to live with her parents on an isolated property with no other kids around. He did, however, get a dog. So perhaps it's no surprise that later, on the field of battle, surrounded by the death of the war, Duncan once again got a dog. [He found Rin-Tin-Tin as a pup, coming from a destroyed kennel, wandering on a WWI battlefield]. The original Rin Tin Tin was born in 1918 and died in 1932. And not just any dog, Orlean argues, but an actor — one who, in the silent era where no one could speak, was on par with human actors. She uses Clash Of The Wolves — the film Scott Simon calls "his Hamlet" — to point out that in addition to being a fine action star and athlete, Rin Tin Tin had a face that was "immensely expressive." The film required Rinty to play scenes in which his character, if it can be called that, believes himself to be leaving his pack to die. "You're really affected by the look on his face and his performance," she says.

I've never owned a dog that didn't know 'dinnertime' and most are pretty cluey on 'time to get up' when you live by a regular schedule. They have a diurnal clock. I don't think the sense of time extends to understanding weeks or years. Eg, when you leave a dog in a kennel, I don't think they count the days you've been gone, and I think a two day separation is pretty much as traumatic as a two month separation for most dogs. Of course, if they like the kennel you take them, it's you feeling the separation anxiety, not them.

"Of greatest concern, Dr Webster said, are owners' perceptions of what happens to their pets as they age. The survey found 57 per cent of dog owners and just under half of cat owners thought their pets became grumpier as they aged." I'm getting grumpier as I age . . . and part of it is cause I hurt. I think the owners got it right. The surveyor just didn't ask the right question.

Additionally, some of us, like me, are tactless. Sorry about that. I think people are kinda saying the same things in different ways, with different emphasis, and you are headed in the right direction. Advance Puppy is fine. lk;;kl Calcium in whole foods is good and safe because the dog will just pass it if she gets to much (hence the hard white turds of dogs on BARF diets) . . . while calcium supplements at the last minute can cause problems. I don't think anyone would object to the sorts of things you're thinking about . . . and most would agree that you're better off with meat than includes bone. Many dogs are lactose intolerant, so milk can upset tummies . . . but yoghurt, cottage cheese, etc. are fine. I've heard that goat milk is better tolerated than cow milk. I used to make yoghurt from powdered milk by the liter rather than buying the expensive stuff from the supermarket. Best to build up reserves gradually . . . by feeding a healthy diet, whatever that is, in the months leading into the pregnancy. And don't be surprised if she starts having trouble eating toward the end. Sometimes puppies don't leave much room for food in the stomach. "Whenever I see someone trying to help me, I run for my life" (Mark Twain) . . . you're in good company if you feel like running away . . . but it's not necessary.

Guess I risk being called an animal rights-ist for posting this . . . but think it will be an informative show. The trailer suggests there are lots of interviews, including interviews with puppy farmers . . . lots of inside shots. HBO movie follows woman who rescued thousands of dogs from puppy mills August 18, 2011 by Robert Pregulman A week from today, HBO will show a movie about a woman named Laura, a New York woman who "has devoted the last several years to rescuing breeding dogs who are no longer of value to the many Amish and Mennonite puppy millers in Lancaster County, Penn." The movie, called "Madonna of the Mills", will follow Laura as she saved thousands of dogs "who otherwise would have most likely been discarded or killed when their breeding days were over." Looks like it will be a fantastic film. For more information go to the movie's Facebook page. p.s. The problem of puppy farming is much worse in the US than in Oz. I think there's some 'imitate the USA' stuff going on with the current Australian movement. It should be grounded by appreciation of how large the problem is in the US.

Regarding the Amish puppy farm discussed in Nic's link June 11, 2010 4:35 PM New Pa. Law Putting Puppy Mills out of Business By CBSNews (AP) Daniel Peachey's breeding dogs used to stand on wire flooring all day, cooped up in cages that provided no regular access to the outdoors. No more. Peachey recently spent more than $20,000 on upgrades at his Stone Mountain Kennel, outside of State College, to meet stringent new health and safety standards that state officials say have gone a long way toward ending Pennsylvania's reputation as the puppy mill capital of the East. While breeders like Peachey have found themselves shelling out tens of thousands of dollars to comply with the strictest kennel law in the nation, scores of substandard commercial kennels have opted to close instead - freeing a minimum of 14,000 dogs from bleak surroundings where they typically received little attention or care. The state Bureau of Dog Law Enforcement is wagging its tail about the results, declaring Friday in its annual report to the Legislature that Pennsylvania has become a "model state" for its oversight of commercial breeders. "I think if people care about their dogs and want to remain in business, they are doing what's needed to comply with the law," Jessie Smith, the state's top dog-law enforcer, told The Associated Press this week during a tour of Peachey's kennel. Pennsylvania had long been known as a breeding ground for puppy mills when Gov. Ed Rendell signed off on an overhaul of the dog law in 2008. The legislation was a response to appalling conditions in many large commercial breeding kennels, where dogs spent most of their working lives inside cramped wire cages, stacked one atop the other, and got little grooming, veterinary care or exercise. Key provisions that went into effect in October required large-scale breeders to double cage sizes, eliminate wire flooring, and provide unfettered access to the outdoors. The new law also banned cage stacking, instituted twice-a-year vet checks, and mandated new ventilation and cleanliness standards. Many breeders have closed voluntarily rather than comply. The number of commercial kennels in Pennsylvania plummeted from 303 at the beginning of 2009 to 111 today - a reduction of almost two-thirds - although a few of them are expected to reopen after making renovations, while other kennels got rid of enough dogs so that they are no longer classified as commercial operations. Thousands of former breeding dogs have been relinquished to shelters and placed in homes as pets. Dogs have also been sold or transferred to other kennel owners in and out of state. "It's much more difficult now to run a puppy mill in Pennsylvania," said Sarah Speed, Pennsylvania state director of The Humane Society of the United States. "I think the puppy mill business in Pennsylvania is absolutely on its way out." Peachey, 43, an Amishman who lives with his wife and seven children on a three-acre spread in Belleville, said he thought long and hard about whether he wanted to remain in the business of breeding and selling Yorkshire and Boston terriers, Maltese, and "morkies" (a trendy Yorkie-Maltese mix). He had always run a clean kennel, meeting and sometimes exceeding existing standards and taking good care of his dogs, according to state dog warden Melissa Bair, who has inspected the facility for years. But even Peachey's operation required substantial upgrades to comply with the new regulations, including outdoor runs and new indoor enclosures. In the end, it was a matter of economics. Peachey, who had paid more than $50,000 for a new kennel building in 2003, thought it made more sense to spend another $20,000 to bring the kennel up to code than to abandon it and lose his original investment. "I really didn't think I had a choice," he said. There's an interesting review of US puppy mill laws at law.psu.edu/_file/aglaw/PA_Dog_Law_Noemi_Lopez.pdf The author is strongly anti-puppy mill, but her work is solidly researched and provides some interesting perspective.

I think that's a reference to the latest chocolate craze, which has produced a lot of badly bred dogs, but has also stimulated the import of some excellent chocolates and is gradually producing some lovely dogs. It also produces a lot of acrimony, because many breeders put a premium on price for chocolate dogs. Others come back with accusations of putting colour and $ above quality.. . which is sometimes true. The same thing happened with yellow Labs half a century ago (more?). Australian show circles have historically discriminated against chocolates and many breeders avoided them. The public has taken a liking to the colour. There has been a major increase in chocos taking titles in recent years . . . including BIS at the NZ Golden Jubilee specialty show. Give it another 20 years and chocolate in Australia will be just another colour, as it is in the US or UK. Many breeders will probably continue to go either the chocolate + black or the yellow + black route in effort to avoid the ugly lack of colouration you sometimes get by mixing choco and yellow. Note, if breeders were truly colour blind, the vast majority of Labradors would be black. Black is genetically dominant and there were far more blacks than yellows or chocos when the stud books closed. The fact that there are at least as many yellows as blacks is strong evidence that popular colour preferences have affected breeders colour decision for many generations. The next controversy will probably be about 'white' Labradors. There are a number of US breeders producing whites that appear to get their colour from the same colour chromosomes that produce white in the Westie. No tint of yellow, very black noses. These dogs are accepted in the ring as 'yellow' and some people seek them out.

I wonder why we don't have a vaccination against snake bites? Apparently they do in the US against Rattle Snakes - or is someone just having a lend of me We've had three dogs bitten in the past 18 months, sadly losing one of them who was only 15 months old. We have done absolutely everything possible to eradicate the snakes' need to come into our dog yards and we are stumped as to what to do next. My lovely neighbour on the adjoining property just came and told me that he saw a brown go across our driveway this morning and into the paddock towards the dog shed/yards. I'm on tender hooks already and it's not even summer time! Yup. There's a rattlesnake vaccine http://rattlesnakevaccinefordogs.com/ But rattlesnakes aren't THAT poisonous. (Remember the interesting Christian groups that use them in religious rites, often get bitten, but rarely die. I don't think faith would do as well protecting people from tiger snakes). They've long known that dogs that survive the first bite develop a degree of immunity by developing antibodies. The vaccine stimulates an immune response. It isn't 100% effective, but generally leaves dogs better prepared to overcome the toxin. I think most Australian poisonous snakes are too toxic for this strategy to work well.

Found it hard to reply. I basically don't care about colour, but in Labs the bb/ee cannot be shown. So, as a small breeder with a choco bitch, I would not get a yellow dog. There are so many dogs to choose from, it's good, in some ways, to use colour to narrow the field.

I try to invest no more in the answer than the sender invested in the question. I'd reply to this one with something like "call for more info" or "not unless you tell me more about yourself and what you want in a dog".