sandgrubber

see http://www.canine-ge...m/lifespan.html for full details This guy conducted a web based survey of standard poodle owners. His findings showed some interesting things: * cancer and bloat account for about three quarters of all deaths * average lifespan is a bit over 11 years * more inbred dogs are much more likely to suffer bloat * only 9.1% of dogs die of old age I find this interesting. Not sure if I believe the data though. The author (now deceased) was active in the Canine Diversity Project, which clearly affected the questions asked, but I'm not clear if it affected study results. I sure would like to see the equivalent for other breeds. Comments, anyone?

Couldn't find the letter. The link put me to a debate about energy sources.

I don't know a lot about cockers, but am aware there have been serious temperament problems in some lines. At least this answer will give you a bump, and you might get a reply from someone with more info.

I've seen this study mentioned many times. Thought it useful to post links for the original study. I think the underlined text below will give a link to the .pdf. It's an amazing study, both because the results are conclusive and because they observed their dogs for a full 15 years! https://www.avma.org/News/Journals/Collections/Documents/javma_220_9_1315.pdf Effects of diet restriction on life span and age-related changes in dogs Richard D. Kealy, PhD; Dennis F. Lawler, DVM; Joan M. Ballam, MS; Sandra L. Mantz; Darryl N. Biery, DVM, DACVR; Elizabeth H. Greeley, PhD; George Lust, PhD; Mariangela Segre, DSc; Gail K. Smith, DVM, PhD, DACVS; Howard D. Stowe, DVM, PhD Objective—To evaluate the effects of 25% diet restriction on life span of dogs and on markers of aging. Design—Paired feeding study. Animals—48 Labrador Retrievers. Procedures—Dogs were paired, and 1 dog in each pair was fed 25% less food than its pair-mate from 8 weeks of age until death. Serum biochemical analy- ses were performed, body condition was scored, and body composition was measured annually until 12 years of age. Age at onset of chronic disease and median (age when 50% of the dogs were deceased) and maximum (age when 90% of the dogs were deceased) life spans were evaluated. Results—Compared with control dogs, food-restrict- ed dogs weighed less and had lower body fat content and lower serum triglycerides, triiodothyronine, insulin, and glucose concentrations. Median life span was significantly longer for dogs in which food was restricted. The onset of clinical signs of chronic dis- ease generally was delayed for food-restricted dogs. Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—Results sug- gest that 25% restriction in food intake increased median life span and delayed the onset of signs of chronic disease in these dogs. (J Am Vet Med Assoc 2002;220:1315–1320)

This appeared at the top of my screen . . . below the DOGZONLINE caption and above the forum itself. What an abomination. Pugs have health problems enough without someone trying to create teacups! Teacup Pugs For Sale Search multiple engines for teacup pugs for sale www.web crawler.com

yip - nothing to do with the new laws (although she is happy to paint it that way...). ok, bad example. Lesson to learn. Those who beat their breasts may not be the people who have suffered the most. It's going to require some sort of outreach to get those who suffer in silence for the loss of a loved animal to come on board. Or do you mean to say that it's all a myth and no one is loosing their pets? I'm surprised at how quiet the waves seem to have gotten after the deadline passed.

I was reading comments on the Melbourne Rally Facebook page and was saddened to see the following comment: Caren Halliwell I'm bringing the empty collar and lead Boyd left. This made me want to cry. Seems like there are people out there loosing their dogs. Not all of them will be willing or able to participate in rallies. Seems like it would be worth setting up a memorial website somewhere to pay tribute to the dogs lost. Perhaps a simple black page with the dogs names, pictures, and comments written in white set up as a Wiki so people can add to it. I checked. emptycollar.com, emptycollar.net, emptycollar.org and all the other variants are available.

it's ok to rip out a car's radiator or a computer's hard drive, but not ok to pull out something from a dog's guts. I've met people who take on a second job to pay their vet bills. You don't do that for a mere possession. As Steve pointed out, 'rights' is not all or nothing. You have to be a loonie to want full freedom for dogs. Freedom of speech, freedom of movement, freedom to choose a mate and raise a family . . . those are not meaningful rights for dogs. But most people would agree that they have a right not to be treated with extreme cruelty and that owning a dog involves a duty of care. Saying dogs are more than chattels one is not signing on with the animal lib agenda. I think the very special place dogs have in many of our lives should give them a status higher than that of a possession. The Law should give some standing to the affection people feel for the animals that share and enrich their lives.

Now, if I were a house burglar, there are a number of breeds I'd be wary of. In my book, that's good (so long as the same dogs don't bail me up in the park or attack my dog in a dog park).

Thanks for the links, dogcentric. Interesting stuff. I guess this all will be slow and difficult to resolve. Personally, I don't see how an animal that someone loves as a family member can be reduced to 'property' status. It sickens me that the people who are supposedly working for animal rights don't stand up for condemned animals. Maybe that's just me. You might be interested in a book called "Pawprints of History" by Stanley Cohen (2002). http://www.amazon.com/Pawprints-History-Course-Human-Events/dp/0743222318/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1317845913&sr=1-1 particularly Chapter 11, which deals with the founding of the RSPCA. The original advocate, Richard Martin, started his activities with a duel with a local landlord who shot a friend's dog and managed to get legislation through Parliament in 1822. It goes on to describe the mayhem the ensued when the RSPCA managed to pass laws outlawing cart dogs.

I disagree. Anti-cruelty legislation, dating back to the 19th century, has established the concept that animals, particularly dogs, should have certain minimal standards of care, and should not be worked to death (as sometimes happened with spit dogs and cart dogs, horses, donkeys, etc.). The first child welfare laws in the USA were based on anti-cruelty legislation put in to protect work animals. When people take on an animal as a companion, that animal deserves a certain minimal standard of care. Yes, there will be disputes about what that minimum of care is, and it will vary over time and from place to place. What I don't understand is how the Loonies fail to be interested in the execution of dogs because they look wrong. I can't think of a worse violation of rights than mass execution based on suppositions with no scientific basis. As for the vet care question . . . I may not agree with where the lines are drawn: ear and tail docking and removal of dew claws are things that breeders have done for centuries, and there's no question that these things can be done in a humane fashion. I'm not convinced that a bullet is any less humane than the green dream. But I do agree to there being laws. DIY Ceasars and debarking are a step too far (I don't know about Australian kenneling laws . . . but these are practices that have recently been outlawed in some US states after finding them widespread in huge, highly commercial breeding operations).<br /><br />p.s. If anyone can explain what's going on with my posts . . . adding a bunch of /br's and &gt's etc., please help. I have posted in the appropriate forum for this, but I don't think I've gotten a response yet. I removed a lot of junk from this post, but it was a real mess before I did so. I've re-edited it . . . maybe the junk will find its way back in.

Surely, the government has ways to force the trailer company to pay. . . garnish something? take away business licenses?

Lane Cover Rd. Isn't that one of the streets where they play the game, kill the cyclist! I'm not saying the dog was innocent, but that is one nasty thoroughfare.

A bit more on this from the PDE Blog 23 Sept 2011 http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.com/ PDE provides a link for the BVA / KC joint announcement: http://www.bva.co.uk/newsroom/2460.aspx also notes . . . Elsewhere, there are several other initiatives aimed at helping to further elucidate CM/SM. They include the Foetal Tissue Research Project, the Cavalier Collection Scheme, and Rupert's Fund which funds MRI scans of older Cavaliers (6+). Rupert's Fund has so far met the cost of MRI scans for 50 dogs vital to SM research. If you have a Cavalier, and haven't already done so, please do check out how your dogs could help future Cavaliers by participating in the research.

periannath, could you give sources for the material you're posting. Many of us appreciate the posts . . . but it's always better to know where information comes from . . . thanks

<br /><br /><br />fun article, but anything that says "science proves" is an automatic turnoff to scientists. Sounds more like anecdote than data. Humans are pretty good at misunderstanding animals. It would be more satisfying to know more about the freeloaders. Were they all males (as in human hunter-gatherer societies)? Were they youngsters, perhaps learning the ropes? Or retired wolves, who had done their duties and were serving as backup.

<br /><br />Doesn't a vet certificate of breed identity clear a dog from seizure if declared not a Pitbull or Pitbull X?<br /><br />Are the vets saying they won't declare a dog to be a Pitbull or they won't provide conformation that it isn't?\<br /><br />Ultimately, all anyone need do, is have their vet provide a certificate to say a dog in the firing line is not a Pitbull and the problem is solved isn't it?<br /><br /><br /><br />No, the problem isn't solved. The AVA is saying they want nothing to do with the mess and they advise their members not to play along with the stupid laws. There will be vets who break with party line and agree to certify dogs on the firing line. Some vets may even be happy to use their credentials to certify dogs they know ARE APBTs, just as some doctors were willing to help blokes trying to avoid the draft. But not everyone who adopted a harmless and cute staffy X and got 'caught' by some gung ho animal control officer is going to know the ins and outs of finding a vet who will certify.

This should probably go in General under Studies About Dogs. Academic articles that require subscription/payment to view the full piece don't really belong in News.

Good post! Hey, Ernie, I think you need an adjective before Nanny State . . . stupid, evil, brain-dead? Cruel? If I had more faith in government I'd grind my usual saw about breeders who select FOR aggression. But it would require sophistication to identify such breeders. Breed clubs might be able, but it's too much to expect of government. Personally, I'm wary of Labradors. Those big brown eyes get me. I always want to take them home.

I can understand why SBT people are defensive. In Germany (and I think some other Northern European nations), the SBT is banned along with the APBT. My German friends -- who did a lot of schutzhund training in Germany and were quite comfortable with guarding breeds, were amazed to see Staffies running free on the beach in Australia, cause they regarded them as super aggressive. Which of course, they aren't. But then, neither are the vast majority of APBT's.

Unfortunately "puppy farm" is often a slanderous term that people throw around when they don't like the way a dog breeder is operating. It is essentially an "N' word used in the dog world. A well run large kennel is e a great place, form the dog's perspective. Dogs are social animals. Most love the company of other dogs and if they're allowed to run and play with a regular small pack, they love it. You could argue that it's cruel to keep dogs as singletons, cause they don't get to interact with their own kind. Sure, if you want a house dog, you are better starting a puppy off in the house. But a good breeder, of any scale, interacts a lot with the pups. A very large establishment is likely to have someone on full-time to look after the pups, and will do such things as keep a radio on and having a washing machine in the background. Do you think a woman with a full time job and a hubby that works away is going to be able to give pups as much attention? There are a handful of large scale, highly commercial dog breeding facilities that keep costs down by neglecting the dogs. Such establishments have deservedly been raked over the coals because they neglect their dogs. There were some absolutely horrific things going on in commercial dog breeding establishments in certain US states, though I think legislation now has resulted in correction of the worse cases. There may be a few pretty ugly establishments in Australia. If they are, they're big targets, and could be put out of business by effective enforcement of existing laws. I wish the animal rights people would put more energy into protecting the right to live of the poor dogs who happen to 'look' dangerous.

Fuller description can be found at http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2011/10/01/news/doc4e8672133b2e6645944751.txt?viewmode=fullstory This case is nothing like the Victorian case. The baby was on the floor, unattended (apparently) and the dogs got out of another room. An aunt was looking after the little girl. Reader comments tell a further story aurie wrote on Sep 30, 2011 10:33 PM:" I'm betting the owner(s) of those dogs have rap sheets involving drugs, burglary, or violence. They should be prosecuted for animal cruelty. 3 energetic pit bulls shouldn't be confined to an apartment. Third floor? Odds are good that they didn't get walked often - too much trouble. Maybe people should be required to get dog-owners' licenses that have to be renewed every so often. These folks aren't fit to own dogs, and no parent should take a child around that many dogs in an apartment. If those dogs were properly raised and trained, and closely supervised, this never would have happened. Poor dogs. Sorry owners. Poor little girl. " Neighborhood mess wrote on Sep 30, 2011 11:30 PM: " This whole neighborhood is turning into a ghetto. I have a friend (wish she'd move) who unfortunatley lives on the next street. This whole neighborhood is loaded with pit-bulls and other attack dogs. The absentee landlords that live elsewhere are also to blame. Most of these drug dealing, pitbull owning thugs have police records and the owners don't care anymore. Just get that apartment rented..who cares cause I don't live in West Haven anyway. The owner of the house is responsible, the owner of the dogs are responsible and most of all this little baby girl's parents are responsible. She didn't have a chance. She was surrounded by idiots. God bless her and may she rest in peace. Poor little innocent angel, what a horrible way to die. Thug brand dogs for thug brain owners. West Haven should enforce some new zoning rules, three family homes should not have that many crazy dogs in it anyway. Where do you think all that waste from them ends up? Oh those poor sanitation workers. Mayor Picard, man up and do the right thing. That whole neighborhood is dangerous now..either no dogs in an apartment, or limit how many killer dogs in one apartment. "

Yes, you did. But it doesn't hurt to repeat the time and place every time you mention an event. People don't remember where, in six pages of a thread, they saw something, and Search can be tedious. Also, a lot of people don't do Facebook, or try to avoid it.

Sorry, I cut and pasted this from the Facebook page cause it frustrates me when people post events and don't provide time and place. The paste didn't exactly work Should read: TAS - Parliament House . . . with no link, then SA on the next line. The main Facebook link is at: http://www.facebook....275080639183977 QLD is still listed as TBA and TAS still listed as Parliament House with no link.

??? I don't think idiot irresponsible owners intended to bring this on. They were just doing their dumb ass macho bloodthirsty thing without regard to the consequences. If responsible owners had been more involved in enforcing control on those who prefer mean dogs and don't properly train or socialise, this awful mess might have been avoided. Governments generally aren't very smart unless they get input from people on the ground who know what is going on. I believe it is a mix and have said many times on here that you only have to look at some of the amstaff breeder adverts on here to see what some of them are breeding and the type they're after.. of course it's going to appeal to the bogan spectrum. Maybe I'm dense, but I still don't get it. There are 39 Am Staff puppy adverts on DOL today. A few (3 or 4) make a big deal of well muscled and big boned with big heads . . . but I'd find similar language describing Labradors. . . some of those advertizing muscle, head and bone also boast Ch/Gr Ch lines. Some people like dogs with big heads and conspicuous muscle. Not necessarily bogan. One bragging about how heavy their studs are, which seems a little weird, but you'll find odd stuff in puppy ads for any common breed.