sandgrubber

I 100% agree. But why is it then that time and time again we have the labrador being touted in the media as the perfect family pet (no effort required and fine for the novice) and time and time again I come across labs that are either grossly overweight or bad mannered because the owners seem to believe that no training is required and just because their large dog isn't aggressive bad manners is okay. Where is this myth coming from? I completely understand why labs are popular they are great dogs but surely lab breeders must be dismayed by the fact that they fall into the hands of people who are unable or unwilling to give them the lives they deserve. I like labs, I like the breed description of labs, I love to see labs working be it as gundogs, seeing eye dogs or drug detector dogs, but there are too many members of joe public out there who own labs who shouldn't, or don't understand that they can sometimes be a large boisterous dog that needs correct training and upbringing. ETA: clarification. I agree only 50%. Some Lab puppies are terrors, but many are quite good . . . not destructive, not rambunctious, reasonably placid from day 8 x 7 = 56 on. Many of the Labs I get in boarding kennels have had no formal training -- nor did the Labs I was brought up with -- and most are great with children, older people, and complex social situation (apart from being notorious beggars). I expect and enforce good behaviour from my dogs, but many of my dogs get no formal training. I have never had a Lab take laundry off the line, destroy a retic system, or ruin furniture (ok they get it dirty, but that's because I allow them to get up on it and don't have a way to ensure they are clean before they get on the sofa) . . . they dig holes, but I've got ACRES of sand, so that's fine. The pups do jump up on people, but if consistently discouraged they pretty much stop doing so before well before they reach 12 months. All my dogs are calm. The only area where I have needed to do serious training is recall under strong distraction (which is inadequately treated in most beginning obedience or puppy training classes). The only 'training' -related complaint I've gotten from puppy buyers comes from people who let young children play with the pup without restriction, and end up with a pup the treats small children as littermates (chase, scream, and bite). I now warn puppy buyers about need to discipline their children when playing with the puppy. I think the word biddable is key. Because Labs have become a very popular family dog, much recommended as such, it is good if breeders who sell to a lot of pet homes select for traits that make them fit the bill and will easily comply with people's reasonable expectations without a lot of formal training . . . and if they choose to run more energetic (maniacal) and high strung bloodlines, they should be careful to advise puppy buyers that they are likely to have an energetic animal that requires considerable discipline, particularly in the first year.

Great links!!! Thanks. I didn't know anyone except RJ Walsh was making dog sulkies. Have you -- or anyone else -- had any experience with Chalo sulkies? Sorry, No. Don't forget that unlike the USA, I think in Australia like the UK it is illegal to use a dog for draught work on a gazetted public road (including the adjacent footpaths). The sled dog fraternity here generally only use forest trails or private land. Buggar! I have a private limestone track that runs out behind my property, which should be ok for starters, but it would really be nice to be able to use public roads. Do you know if that's a national or a state law? Btw. A book called The Pawprints of History (S. Cohen, 2002) gives a wonderful description of the outlawing of dogs as draught animals in the UK , and all the horrible consequences (tens of thousands of dogs died, many poor families lost their companion/draught animals as a consequence . . . and child labour was often brought in to do the work that was once done by dogs. The second legislative triumph of the RSPCA -- after banning bull baiting and dog fighting -- came in 1839, when dogs were outlawed as transport animals within 15 miles of London's Charring Cross Station.

Great links!!! Thanks. I didn't know anyone except RJ Walsh was making dog sulkies. Have you -- or anyone else -- had any experience with Chalo sulkies?

You can purchase a Dogtown DVD from National Geographic http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/product.../4313/1074.html

Good suggestion, but, no. The dorsal harness is completely different in how it puts stress on the dog and the design needs to allow for attachment from the top.

Maybe I'm a ratbag, but I also think it would be good to refer the breeder in question to this thread. It may be painful, but I think when people get refusals, it's good for them to understand why. I also do $100 deposits . . . but not puppy shows in a park. I will refund the deposit if the buyer gives good cause for their change of mind. I pocket it if the puppy buyer is mucking me around . . . eg, changed their mind and didn't bother to tell me until week seven or eight.

I'm very close to getting a mini-sulky with a dorsal hitch as a way to challenge and exercise my dog mob . . . and take pressure off an ankle that has been giving me a lot of trouble. See www.rjwalsh.com.au/mini/index.htm to see the product line. Have a trainer lined up to help get it going. I'm a dismayed to find that, although sulky is made in Sydney, most of their sales are to the US, and the recommended sources our harnesses and other tack is in the US . . . which complicates the process of getting started and makes it a lot more expensive. Can anyone recommend a good Australian harness maker or dog outfitter who might be amenable to working on developing gear for the Australian market?

Please tell, how do you determine what is 'noble'. I see little resemblance between any GSP I've ever seen and Queen Elizabeth -- or most of her relatives. I don't think the [uK] Queen would appreciate nobility being identified with lounge lizard characteristics. She seems much more focussed on duty and honour and the stiff upper lip. Note, I'm responding as someone with a science background is annoyed by breed standards that include subjective words [like noble] and open ended terms [like broad, narrow, deep]. Subjective words leave too much to the judge's interpretation. Open ended terms result in directed selection for ever more extreme characteristics . . .which has to be unbalanced and probably unhealthy.

GREAT ANSWER! I'd find it pathetic if the vet nurse took time to write out an expiry date on, say, a worming tablet or a round of antibiotics that was intended for immediate use.

bull arabs are pig dogs & very goods ones at that, they were & are breed for pig hunting, but can be just as good as a house dog as well, they are fantastic dogs. Gina No offense meant. Just trying to help in fishing for words. The original post said 'restricted breed' -- which doesn't include bull arab, or, for that matter, pig dog. If it was a restricted breed with a two word name, almost has to be Presa Canario. There are five breeds restricted in Australia. APBT, Presa Carario, Fila Brasiliero, Japanese Tosa, and Dogo Argentino. The Presa Canario and APBT are the only ones known to exist in Australia . .. although the Presa Canario is very rare.

Who knows . . . perhaps the dogs are kosher (which prohibits eating fish without fins) and don't like the shellfish taste (it isn't simply fishy . . . it is mollusc taste . . . try it yourself if you don't believe me). . . or maybe they just like the meat or meat rolls so much better than the dry that they're turning their nose on the stuff. No big worry. I don't think missing a week or two will have a long term effect on health. Next time I hit this problem, I'll have a go at mixing with chicken blood or some such and see if they'll accept it as a gravy.

Based on boarding kennel experience, "restrained" in the breed standard, is inaccurate (should read: "best if restrained"). I also don't understand what "noble" means. If GSPs represent nobility, good thing we're not a monarchy. I would not like to have beasts with this temperament in control. Most GSPs are dogs you would not want to greet in the morning before you've had your dose of java. Many pet GSPs don't seem to have had the early discipline recommended by many people on this thread; and many don't take 'no' as an answer. By in large, they are graceful, affectionate dogs; they eat huge quantities of food and stay lean; they mix well with other dogs and do a good job of making sure the whole pack gets tired; and they are less prone to digging holes than many gun dogs. Great dogs, but high energy and demanding of interaction.

Perhaps it was 'pig dog'? Not Bull Arab.

My own dogs haven't been arthritic and I have no personal experience with Sasha's blend. Sometimes I get dogs, in the boarding kennel, who come with a supply and instructions to sprinkle a spoonfull over their biscuits. My experiences is that, often, this results in the dog not eating the food. I tasted a tiny bit, and it really is STRONG. Of course dogs often like nasty tastes. Just curious, do people who use Shasha's blend have trouble with food refusal? Or do you do some sort of trick to camaflogue (sp?) the stuff?

Vets are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Buying a bottle of 100 tabs and dispensing them in envelopes or whatever is a lot cheaper than buying the individual foil wrapped bits. As a consumer, I am happy to benefit from this economy, as I hate throw-away foil wrap things, whether it's lollies or pills. I curse the vet who sells me Clavulox at $5/tab instead of Amoxiclav at $3/tab -- so far as I've been able to tell, they're exactly the same thing. BUT, chemistry is clear. Things degrade a lot less rapidly if they are kept cold. What's called the Q10 principle says the decay rate halves for every 10 degrees. A good first guess for organics. Many inorganics (like, say, asparin sp?) and some organicsdon't decay for donkey's years and you could store them at 40 C for years with no loss of potency. If you want your pills to keep longer, store them in the fridge. Expiry dates are inexact, and I seem to remember a lawsuit in the US against drug companies for giving unrealistic expiry dates, resulting in people (mostly doctors) throwing out perfectly good meds and making people afraid to buy in bulk.

Old age is relatively rare in greyhounds, unfortunately. But I've never heard that they are more or less prone to loss of eyesight than other breeds. Grumpyness has not been a feature of the blind dogs I've looked after (in kennels). Some are a bit tentative and passive. Some just stumble and bump into things. If you move furniture and the result is the dog bumping into the thing in its new position and avoiding the place where it used to be, I'd say serious loss of eyesight. Blurring of vision is hard to identify in older dogs, cause they generally don't move fast enough to bump into even a blurry object. If your guy has cataracts, it may take a vet opthamologist to provide an accurate diagnosis of the type and seriousness and prognosis. But unless you're thinking of doing surgery -- probably not advised for a dog of that age -- I don't see what use the diagnosis will be.

For people living in Perth, especially SOR, Vitality High Performance is a great option. $45 for 15 kg. It's mostly produced for export but can be picked up from the manufacturer in Naval Base. Beef/lamb + various grains, including a lot of rice, with generous supplementation of an Omega 3/6 rich oil (mostly flax seed). But whatever you use, do add a good amount of raw stuff . . . chook frames are generally cheap and very nutritious.

Banannas are a good source of potassium, so in small amounts they may do some good. Otherwise they are mostly a carbohydrate . . . about as good for your dog as white bread.

Molly whelped two weeks ago. About six days after whelping she got some sort of abcess in her mammary glands, accompanied with hardening of mass behind the teats and loss of appetite but not fever. The vet prescribed Amoxiclav for five days. She responded well, but it's been slow. I went back and got a script for another four days when she still had the hard lumpy htings -- though reduced in size -- after five days. At 10 days the lumps are almost entirely gone, although I can still feel one spot, presumably where the abcess was. Question: I've been taught a rule of thumb that antibiotics should be continued for two days after the patient is asymptomatic. Do others agree on this principle? Does asymptomatic mean lumpyness completely gone, or appetite and energy level back to normal?

I think Rex is saying that you can breed the aggressive tendencies of a breed up or down and GSD breeders have had to breed the down to end up with a socially acceptable household dog. To me that's the point. BSL is a clumsy tool. But where breeders in a specific breed are tending to breed up HA or DA, it may be appropriate for government to intervene. Would you like to live next door to a dog that was the endpoint of several generations of selection, all aiming to produce the ultimate junkyard dog? On a personal note: I got bitten by a junkyard GSD . . . in a real junkyard during open hours . . . in the 1970s. Fortunately I was wearing heavy boots or my Achilles tendon would have been at risk. I don't blame the dog or the owner and I took no legal action . . . . but I do fault the system that permits such dogs to be at large during open hours. If dogs are bred to be highly protective, and/or trained to attack, it may be appropriate to restrict their appearances in public places and their 'use' as weapons. Often this goes along breed lines.

Several forms of vaccine get called C5. I am not an expert on the differences between them. But my vet said, yes, it was possible that the vaccine she used caused the disease. Antibiotics are ineffective for KC itself, but may help with bacterial infections that often accompany bad KC. Unfortunately the antibiotic of choice cannot be used on young pups because it harm the development of enamel in the adult teeth (my vet says). I probably ended out using broad spectrum puppy ok antibiotics on some of the pups . . . can't remember exactly, it was some years back. Mostly, the care regime involved trying to keep the poor little guys comfortable and allowing them to heal.

I had a whole litter of pups come down with serious KC after being given the nasal vaccination. The subsequent litter of pups also got it. When I asked about this on DOL, others reported similar experiences. When I tried to report the problem to the vet or drug company, no one was interested. They may say it's not common. . . but they don't try hard to find out.

It is unfortunate that they didn't include extremely HA breeds, eg, the Fila Brasiliero, in the study. I suspect that, had they done so, they would have come to a different conclusion. The more I read on the Fila, the more I conclude that it is a true example of breeding for hostility to those outside the pack can be successful . . . and that aggression can be inbred. I would encourage others to Google the breed and read what clubs and breeders have to say. Breed advocates, in general, agree that good puppies show "aversion" to strangers from a very early age. Show standards say it's ok for the dog to bite the judge . . . dogs are supposed to be aggressive to strangers. Also, that you need to put a lot of training into your pup if you want to end out with a dog that won't attack your house guests. Note, this is not an anti-Fila campaign. From what I can gather, the Fila is a lovely breed . . . but dangerous if not managed properly. I think the danger is adequate to justify laws. I have no doubt that the HA tendencies could be bred out if breeders were so inclined. . . .but in general they aren't. Ok in rural Brazil (unless you are an indigenous person who feels it's ok to nick an occasional bovine that has been put on your ancestral land . . . or a jaguar). I am against BSL for the APBT, Rotti, Dobe, or GSD. But, in principle, I think legislative solutions are appropriate where selective breeding brings out HA or DA potential. It is unfortunate that the law is not skilled enough to affect the cause .. . . breeders who breed for a weapons grade dog or a dog for the fighting ring. I think that blanket anti-BSL attitudes are a denial that aggressive tendencies can be hereditary . . . and thus lessen the pressure to breed for dogs who can easily be trained to standards that are acceptable in Australia (or other places where gunslingers, kidnappers, pirates, and other outlaws don't have a major impact on day to day life).

Thanks everyone. Looks like I'll have to source a pile of Nature's Gift. Of course, the Chum and Pal raised dogs may find it too wholesome and refuse it . . . maybe I'll try a few cans first. "Gift" being German for poison isn't the best portent.

I distrust chicken mince. It's like sausage in a situation where there are no health inspections. It often smells almost as bad as the farts of the dogs that eat it. And if you shop around you can probably find chicken carcass that's as cheap, or cheaper, than mince. Whole carcass has the advantage that it keeps your dog's teeth clean, AND you can see exactly what you're getting. Also, for Labs, you can trim off the fatty bits, which is great for avoiding weight problems.