Crating Issues- Home Vs Daycare

[jaegertheweim]

Jaeger is 4 months old and we send him to daycare Mondays - Fridays. There he does both puppy pre-school and day boarding.

At home we had some issues with his crating at first but with more, consistent training he has improved a lot. He now settles down very quickly in the crate and can happily stay there for several hours, no barking/whining whatsoever. At daycare however, they say he doesnt crate well, barks non-stop, etc. We pack him treats, toys, blankie but I guess they're not helping.

Because of this, they have suggested we hire a behaviorist to come to us for in-home training (at almost $200 for 2 hrs). I'm really not sure what we will achieve if we do hire the guy to come out.. he crates fine at home and I honestly think that it's a problem with the environment at the daycare facility.

Apart from taking him out of daycare, what other options do I have?

Edited November 6, 2007 by kathyinjapan

[Kavik]

I agree that it's likely the environment at the daycare and not only a crating issue if he crates fine at home. From having worked in a daycare, I have noticed that the behaviour of some dogs is different in the daycare than at home or the park, mine included.

What do they do at the daycare to try to help him settle in a crate? Do they use treats or kongs with peanut butter for example (this is what we do). How long is he in the crate for? Has he had a chance to go to the toilet? Do they give adequate rest times for young dogs? All day 5 days a week is a LONG time in a daycare! Maybe he gets overstimulated or overtired? How is it structured?

[jaegertheweim]

We currently have him in day boarding on Monday, Thursday and Friday. On Tuesdays and Wednesdays he is in puppy kindy.

They have been a bit vague with how his day there is structured. From what I can gather, when he's boarded he's in his crate for a few hours at a time in the mornings and afternoons, with scheduled toilet and TLC breaks. Sometimes they let him out in the afternoon to play with other dogs. On puppy pre-school days it's pretty much just playing with the other dogs for the day, with scheduled 'nap' times, which they say he doesnt settle down well during.

We pack him his kong filled with treats, a pigs ear, a biscuit or two and a raw hide chew. Have noticed that they've only been giving him his Kong lately.. everything else comes home in his bag untouched.

I might also add that my husband who drops off and picks up Jaeger from there each day often gets 'lecturerd' by the lady there.

[Paganman]

Is there some reason why he carnt stay home? 5 days in such an intense sort of environment would be pretty stressful on a young pup Id think. I mean I can see that you want to socialise him but 5 days a week seems a bit OTT, he must be worn out.

[jaegertheweim]

We initially thought he wouldnt do well by himself at home, so that's why we enrolled him in daycare. But I'm now wondering if we made the wrong decision to begin with :S

We are going to scale back his daycare days as of next week.

[Kavik]

I agree with Paganman. I would never recommend sending a dog to daycare 5 days a week - it is too much and too full on! Especially for pups - too much exercise and excitement. Dogs, especially puppies but even adults, sleep a lot of their day or do nothing much, maybe wander around. Running and wrestling with heaps of dogs all day every day is too much. The dogs that I have seen come to daycare that often get very cranky because they are very tired. Not even the boss brings his dog in every day. I would try reducing the number of days he is at daycare. He will likely sleep all day on those days, due to being so tired.

Edit: just saw you are going to reduce his daycare days in your last post I am typing slow today I guess!

Edited November 6, 2007 by Kavik

[Poodle wrangler]

A behaviourist for a problem specific to day care

If your dog's going there 5 days a week, I'd have expected them to handle any problems like this.

Do they cover his crate to reduce stimulation?

I'm sure you have/had the best intentions for your pup. Frustrating that they didn't suggest to you that 5 days might be too much etc., but I guess they lose money if you don't go. Pups need to spend a fair bit of time sleeping as they're growing so fast.

about your OH getting lectured ... mine used to get the same at kiddie day care.

Son was threatened with expulsion for trying to lead an escape from daycare: "I just wanted to take my friends to play at our place".

OH thought it showed resourcefulness and good leadership skills, but teachers were not amused .

[jaegertheweim]

need to rant

Today was the 3rd day he has come home with the treats we packed uneaten.

They say that he isnt interested in them (strange because he LOVES them at home) and they insist that we pack him something extra yummy like a big juicy bone. That's not exactly a helpful suggestion because we've only just started to give him small bones (chicken necks) at home and they are only given under supervision. No way am I going to give him like that something to eat there.

Decision has been made, tomorrow will be his last day.

edit to add: the more i think about it, the more i realise how unhappy i am with the place. we've been patient but can't deal with them anymore

Edited November 6, 2007 by kathyinjapan

[Poodle wrangler]

Are you planning to arrange anything else for during the day for him? e.g. dog walker for a short walk (only short walks for large breed pups).

Might be quite a shock to him, otherwise?

[Stewie_the_Frenchie]

hmmm...I live in the remote Kimberley, so maybe I am out of the loop here, but daycare? for dogs? I understand that dogs need stimulation and socialisation, but I agree with others when they say that 5 days is too much, especially for a pup. He must be over-stimulated. I know as a first time pup owner, you want to do everything right by them (believe me, I stress out like a mother!), but sometimes (I've learned along the way), you must realise that they are dogs and they're not human children. Having said that, I completely understand that you want the best for your little one.

Reading this thread, I am quite astounded that the day care people have the nerve to lecture your OH - isn't it their job to do all of that? Aren't they trained and paid for that? As I said, I'm perhaps naive about daycare. I think your decision to pull him out is probably a wise one. But I'm sure you realise that pups/dogs do need socialisation, so maybe the puppy school one day a week would be better.

Have a go at leaving him at home - I found with ours, as long as he has things to do (or even a window to look out - although he's outside most of the day), he ends up sleeping all day anyway. But my breeder did say that it's really important to let pups sleep, as they need it.

Anyway, this is a rather long reply and probably

I hope it works out for you - it can be stressful!

5 months

[jaegertheweim]

Are you planning to arrange anything else for during the day for him? e.g. dog walker for a short walk (only short walks for large breed pups).

Might be quite a shock to him, otherwise?

Husband talked me into waiting until the end of the week to pull him out of daycare. We will use the weekend to ease him into 'being alone' and depending on how he goes I may take a half day on Monday and come home early.

Jaeger will only be left at home alone 3 days a week. My cousin has offered to drop in every few hours to check on him but I'm not sure if that's a good idea.. I'm worried he'll be so excited to see him that he won't settle down properly after he (my cousin) leaves. What do you guys think?

[Rhi*Jak*Ed]

Hi Kathy,

I see that you are in Brisbane and wonder if it is the centre in the Valley that you use? If you are still wanting your pup to socialise etc, I can't recommend Dog Friendzy at Mitchelton enough. Cathy runs it from her home (so it's not in a big shed where the dogs don't see daylight etc), and because of the small number of dogs that she has on any given day, the dogs really do get that extra one-on-one care. She also assists with puppy training etc, and does doggie sleepovers, if you ever need to go away :-)

She runs a great facility and is very thorough - you would take your pup in for an assessment (which involves watching how he interacts with Cathy's dog) and if they get along then she will determine which day would suit your pup best depending on temperament etc.

My dog Jak was only 4 or 5 months old when I first took her there, and one day a week was certainly enough for her. I would pick her up after work and she would sleep all the way home. She only awoke long enough to eat her dinner then she was straight back to sleep again until morning. She was still tired the day after too....

It would give me the night off too, and I could kick back with a glass of red or something like that and just relax instead of well, running around after an energetic pup haha. If you'd like to know more feel free to PM me :-)

Rhi & Jak

[poodlefan]

Kathy:

At daycare however, they say he doesnt crate well, barks non-stop, etc. We pack him treats, toys, blankie but I guess they're not helping.

My guess is that the environment doesn't have a 'quiet area' and that he's over stimulated.

I'd not send a pup to such a place. They can learn a lot of undesireable behaviours.

Personally I think it's pretty rare cheek (not to mention not very logical) to suggest an inhome consult for a problem that's daycare specific. That's pretty telling about the level of knowledge of the operator IMO.

Save your money. A lunchtime visit to feed and a bit of a play would be enough provided some boredom buster toys are available.

[Poodle wrangler]

..... Jaeger will only be left at home alone 3 days a week. My cousin has offered to drop in every few hours to check on him but I'm not sure if that's a good idea.. I'm worried he'll be so excited to see him that he won't settle down properly after he (my cousin) leaves. What do you guys think?

I'd say that to drop in, have a bit of a play and leave him with something to eat would be great (about 1/2 hour only).

It's best not to make a huge fuss coming and going. e.g. Comes in, gets a coffee, sits outside with dog, then plays game with dog, leaves food for dog and leaves.

Pups do an awful lot of sleeping. Training tires their brains, too.

[Gayle.]

Buy him a playmate. Another dog. You'll never regret it and he'll love it, then you can quite happily leave the two of them at home all day and they'll never get bored.

And keep remembering, he's a dog, he's not a child. There's a very big difference.

As for people you pay to do doggie stuff for you, who think they have the right to lecture you......well, I used to take my two small dogs to a groomer who'd lecture me about how badly they were groomed. Duh????? That's why I took them to her! Cos I was hopeless at it.

Eventually I got sick of handing over my hard earned money to her and found another groomer who was quite happy to groom my dogs, get paid and not say a word about the cruddy trimming job I'd done of their faces.

[Bokezu]

Just a thought, if you pull him out of day care, you could hire someone in your area to come in for 1 or 2 hours a day, have a play and a feed, puppy would be much happier, I know the hardest part would be finding the right person.

[Dogsfevr]

Personally i think you have created some issues with daycare .Weis are very much a routine breed & need to learn very early to be independant & cope on there own otherwise they can become obsesed with destroying anything or barking.

A place that doesnt explain structure or what they do is the last place i would leave my dog.

As for treats from a boarding kennel point of view we get many dogs that wont eat treats left by there owners,that isnt something i would consider an issue.The dog is in a different place,obviously crated alot & most likely very confused about what is routine.

Weis are people dogs & thrive on there masters voice.They dot on there commands & live for them.

I would suggest if your neighbours are at home inform them of the pups new routine so they can give you feedback & they wont be upset if things arent good.Give them your mobile neighbour if you are happy too.

I would suggest doing the change sooner than latter especially with summer coming up & that there a breed prone to bloat .