Katty23 Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Hi. I have a wonderful 7 yo Rhodesian Ridgeback with epilepsy. The medication he was on to control his epilepsy (Phenomav) destroyed his liver (70%). We weaned him off the Phenomav and put him on Keppra (expensive but brilliant). He's also on Epibrom. The vets didn't think his liver would recover but it has much to my relief, with the help of more medication and diet. Anyway, the vet has recommended he stay on his liver food diet being Hill's l/d just to keep his liver healthy. He's been on this food for about 3 months. But I read today on http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_re...duct/1072/cat/7 the following about Hill's l/d................ "zero meat content, use of low quality grains and fillers, carcinogenic chemical preservative." and i have read similar reports elsewhere. Now I'm confused and worried. Should I take him off the Hill's Prescription l/d food? And if so, what other would you recommend? Please help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katty23 Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Hi. I have a wonderful 7 yo Rhodesian Ridgeback with epilepsy. The medication he was on to control his epilepsy (Phenomav) destroyed his liver (70%). We weaned him off the Phenomav and put him on Keppra (expensive but brilliant). He's also on Epibrom. The vets didn't think his liver would recover but it has much to my relief, with the help of more medication and diet. Anyway, the vet has recommended he stay on his liver food diet being Hill's l/d just to keep his liver healthy. He's been on this food for about 3 months. But I read today on http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_re...duct/1072/cat/7 the following about Hill's l/d................"zero meat content, use of low quality grains and fillers, carcinogenic chemical preservative." and i have read similar reports elsewhere. Now I'm confused and worried. Should I take him off the Hill's Prescription l/d food? And if so, what other would you recommend? Please help... Maybe I should just ask my vet???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavandra Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Do you know the cause of your dogs epilepsy problem? things that can cause seizures are vaccines, especially the annual heartworm vaccine. If your dog has been having annual vaccine like this perhaps you can detox your dog & see a Holistic Vet to advise you of diet,supplements & how to detox all the chemicals from your dogs system. Perhaps you will have no more seizures & a healthy liver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katty23 Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Do you know the cause of your dogs epilepsy problem? things that can cause seizures are vaccines, especially the annual heartworm vaccine. If your dog has been having annual vaccine like this perhaps you can detox your dog & see a Holistic Vet to advise you of diet,supplements & how to detox all the chemicals from your dogs system. Perhaps you will have no more seizures & a healthy liver I have tried everything to find out what causes his seizures. Detox, environment, sleeping patterns, worming etc. He's had it for 5 years now. Doctors still dont know exactly what causes epilepsy. Some people can tell when theyre dogs are going to fit but i dont even get a sign, and naturally i know my dog better than anyone else. Im resigned to the fact that its just one of those things. My poor baby. But anyway, any ideas on the food???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 How awful for you and your dog With regards to the food - how is your dog doing on Hills I/D? Some dogs do very, very well on some diets when others don't. I don't know much about the dog version but have seen cats fed successfully on solely I/D wet/dry for many years as they don't tolerate much else. It might be worth asking your vet what it is about the I/D that benefits your dog and go from there. So, is it the % protein? The type of protein? I hope that makes sense...I'm loathe to give you a diet suggestion for what is clearly a complex medical condition. Perhaps the suggestion to consult a holistic vet is a good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 How awful for you and your dog With regards to the food - how is your dog doing on Hills I/D? Some dogs do very, very well on some diets when others don't. I don't know much about the dog version but have seen cats fed successfully on solely I/D wet/dry for many years as they don't tolerate much else. It might be worth asking your vet what it is about the I/D that benefits your dog and go from there. So, is it the % protein? The type of protein? I hope that makes sense...I'm loathe to give you a diet suggestion for what is clearly a complex medical condition. Perhaps the suggestion to consult a holistic vet is a good idea I agree. You need to understand first: - why the vet has recommended he stay on his liver food diet being Hill's l/d (eg low protein content, good source of proteins, etc etc) - ask what ingredients are good for your dog - study the label of the Hill's l/d to see what's good in there Hill's food has fillers that your dog doesn't need but in order to recommend a better diet you first need to ask your vet what is so good about Hill's and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Hi, Sorry to hear about your dog's liver. I would like to add that your vet seems to have been very re-miss in not regularly testing your dog while he was on phenobarbitol for liver function. All epileptic dogs should have their pheno and bromide levels tested regularly as well. I also have an epileptic dog. We have not yet had any problems with his liver. Monte is also on pheno and bromide therapy. Can I suggest that you peruse these site for advice on diet. Canine Epilepsy and Canine Epilepsy Guardian Angels Also can you tell me how you find the keppra? I have often considered it. Have you noticed a reduction in seizures? How long has he been on the keppra? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katty23 Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 Thanks for your comments, guys. It has been a rough 5 years I tell ya. I think you're right that I should ask my vet why he recommends Hills l/d. I think it does have something to do with the protein. The fact that it has a carcenogenic in it that has been banned from human consumption worries me a bit. But it might out weigh the good that the Hills is doing. Going to study the ingredients when I get home. Now Puggles. It's funny you say that my vet has been very re-miss with regards to testing liver while he's on phenobarbitol. I have often wondered that. I did some research and everyone was saying that your dog should be tested every 6 months while he's on phenobarbitol to check the status of his liver. My vet never ever did that, nor did he tell me about it. Must say I'm bit angry at that. It's just lucky my dog recovered. The only reason I took him to the vet for testing was because he was peeing himself. Now with the Keppra............... as my dog could no longer take the Phenomav, we tried the Epibrom by itself but his seizures got sooooooooo bad (like 7 in an hour) thought I was going to loose him. Anyway, the vet in Brisbane (I see a vet on the Gold Coast where I live) who did the ultra sound on his liver recommended Keppra. My vet had never heard of it. (hmmm, my vet not sounding so good is he???). So I started him on Keppra. My vet gets it for me. But you can order it over the internet. It's excellent. Honestly he's a different dog. I can't recommend it enough. I can you run you through the pros and cons if you like and are happy to help you more if you like. But it is very expensive. And I ain't rich so it is hard but still I think it's worth it. Let me know...... Going to check your site for advise on diet for epileptic dogs now. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katty23 Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 Puggles, I would like to chat with you a little more on epilepsy if cool with you. Maybe I can give you my email address. I just read on that link that you gave me that I should have valium on hand in case my dog has cluster seizures. My dog has had cluster seizures before and I asked my vet about valium but he dismissed the idea. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Thanks Katty, I would really appreciate you running me through the pros and cons. My neurologist suggested it but then we realised it had to be given three times a day, and as I work it is impossible for me to stick with an 8 hour ritual... the 12 hours with pheno is often hard enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katty23 Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 Yes. The 8 hour between pills thing. I would have forgotten to tell you that. It's just habit that i do it now. I work full time too from 8 till 5. So I give him his pills at 7.30am (just before I leave for work) 5.30pm (when I get home) and midnight. Not quite 8 hours apart but close enough. Bleach (my dog) has been on Keppra for about 9 months. He's doing great. Less fits. Positives of Keppra - drinks a lot less water and is not as food obsessed on the Keppra as opposed to the Phenomav. He used to drink sooooo much water on the Phenomav. Like 8 litres or more a day. And of course with drinking comes peeing. He sleeps with me so I was up 6 times a night to let him out. - he's not as sluggish. I really didn't notice how sluggish he was on the Phenomav until I actually took him off it. He's much more lively and 'with it' on the Keppra. - he definitely has a lot less fits on the Keppra not that he had that many on the Phenomav. Phenomav probably 2 a month. Keppra 1 every 3 months. And with the Phenomav his fits always came in 2's, 12 hours apart. So once he fitted he'd fit again in 12 hours ish. BUT I have noticed that when he does actually fit on the Keppra they are more severe and last longer. I actually panicked the first time he fitted on the Keppra, I didn't think the fit would stop. And it was so intense. - he's happier in himself - he doesn't drag his back feet now Negatives on Keppra - the price. They are $200 (and that's a reduced price; normally $235 but I haggled with my vet) for a 21 day supply. - fits are more severe but certainly a lot less frequent Hope this helps. Can you tell me if your vet has given you valium incase your dog doesn't come out of a fit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Thank you so much for the information. My restriction will still be hours. I leave home at 6.45am and am not home untill 5.30 - 6 pm. Some nights even later but my daughter and husband take up the slack where they can. The price is quite high! Wow. I would be bargaining with your vet even more and ask for it at wholesale price. If not, you can possibly purchase it cheaper direct from the US perhaps?? I regularly give Monte valium. We give orally and rectally. Monte never has single seizures (although he did for the first time last year!) but instead, will have 5 or 6 straight after the other over a 60 minute period. To prevent status (non-stop convulsing) we administer valium in an attempt to stop the cluster. It always works. When we are out of valium, we dose him up on more pheno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katty23 Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 Thank you so much for the information. My restriction will still be hours. I leave home at 6.45am and am not home untill 5.30 - 6 pm. Some nights even later but my daughter and husband take up the slack where they can. The price is quite high! Wow. I would be bargaining with your vet even more and ask for it at wholesale price. If not, you can possibly purchase it cheaper direct from the US perhaps??I regularly give Monte valium. We give orally and rectally. Monte never has single seizures (although he did for the first time last year!) but instead, will have 5 or 6 straight after the other over a 60 minute period. To prevent status (non-stop convulsing) we administer valium in an attempt to stop the cluster. It always works. When we are out of valium, we dose him up on more pheno. I have looked to get Keppra from overseas. Only save about $10 a week that way. It is only a very new drug but there will very soon be a generic available. So hopefully that will be cheaper. My vet wont drop his price any more and I know it is a good price at $200 as I've shopped around.....lots. I'm going to ask my vet again about the valium. It's always worried me that Bleach would go into a cluster and I wouldn't be able to get him out of it. Not sure of my vet anymore. He should have known to do liver tests on pheno and should be offering me valium. I've also got 3 cats, 1 just been diagnosed with arthritis (she's only 3) so trust me, I spend enough with him. Anyway, if Monte's liver is doing fine on pheno then stick with it. Cheaper and more convenient. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I wouldn't think that Keppra was a new drug. It may be new in Australia but has been in the US for many years that I am aware of. A saving of $10 per week equates to $520 a year. As your dog normally only has single seizures this may be why he hasn't prescribed valium as well?? Valium only has a short shelf life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Katty23, I just wanted to wish you all the best......hope you sort something out and also keep us updated with your progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbesotted Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 There is an excellent book : written by caroline levin " Canine Epilepsy: An Owner's Guide to Living With and Without Seizures (Paperback)" http://www.petcarebooks.com/books/canine_epilepsy.htm It is down to earth and provides the information that owners of epi dogs so desperately need to understand what is going on and perhaps triggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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