shekhina Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I am trying to get one for Daegon and Kovu, well, Kovu almost exclusively but I think it'll help Daegon's recall as well. Things I want Kovu to learn with it are: no nuisance barking no chasing the cats no bench surfing come back when I darn well tell you and Daegon just: come back when I darn well tell you Once you've taught the dog with the collars on, do they still continue to perform the commands or not perform the unwanted behaviours with the collars off? I'm wanting to put them both through their obedience levels, but you are not allowed to have anything except either a flat collar or check chain on your dog during the tests. I also am not sure whether they would allow the use of an e-collar during class, although I think it would be silly not to allow it, but anyways. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriment Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 To give you an example, one of my lot was down the back corner of the garden barking this morning. She did not have her ecollar on... I called her, and I admit it was not instant (I had to repeat the command a few times). But then she came - running flat out. Then I told her "on your mat!" and pointed to her mat. She got on it, I said Drop! she dropped, I said Stay! and she stayed til I released her. All without the ecollar on. And I have to :D admit that I haven't been doing nearly as much training with them as I should. Certainly not every day, last time with her, probably about a week ago. So yep they do things they're told even without the collar on With regards to competition obedience though, I don't know so can't comment. I don't know if you'd approach the ecollar work any differently. Best ask the gurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 Thanks for that! Those little guys running flat out is pretty darn cute...and pretty darn dangerous when it's my lot, you just get out of the way, FAST If I do get a collar then I'll also get the booklet for sale at K9 Force so that I make sure I am using it correctly and to get the best results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Carthy Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Hi - before starting with the collar you need a few days preventing collar wise (the dogs know the stim is coming from the collar) - I tell people to leave the collar on untill 60 days after the last use - below is collar wise procedure. Collar wise precautions. The main principle of using a remote static e-training collar is to ensure your dog never knows the sensation is anything to do with his collar, to avoid this you must not use the collar for the first few days to a week. As soon as you receive your collar you can place it on your dog and let him wear it WITHOUT use together with his/her normal collar for a few days to a week. Do not attach the lead to it as this can rub the stainless steel contact points on his skin. Take the collar on and off in the house and outside at intermittent intervals without any specific pattern. Keep the hand held transmitter or mobile phone etc in sight and fondle him whilst it is in your hand, point at him with it sometimes and generally over the period of a 3 or 4 days make both collar and transmitter neutral items to him, if you do not carry out this procedure your dog might only respond with the collar on and remain otherwise unchanged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriment Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Thanks for that! Those little guys running flat out is pretty darn cute...and pretty darn dangerous when it's my lot, you just get out of the way, FAST If I do get a collar then I'll also get the booklet for sale at K9 Force so that I make sure I am using it correctly and to get the best results. Hey, don't you believe it!!! I recently had a scratch and a BRUISE, from one of mine who was a bit hyper and excited to see me, I called her and she came sprinting up, had no breaks and rammed straight into my leg The manual from K9 Force is great, and it's very easy to follow, step-by-step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 (edited) Thank you for that Denis, very helpful! Kovu definitely knows if something is connected to his corrections. I have electric fencing to contain him and if there's no white rope around the fence line he knows he can get out. But I can have the fence totally disconnected from the outlet (like it is now) and he still thinks that it's on, so he couples the shock with the wire. ETA: Meriment, ouch! :D I think I'd rather end up with a scratch and a bruise than a broken leg with 55+ kilos ramming into me though ;) ;) Edited February 21, 2008 by shekhina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Hey Shekhina, You definitely can't use the collar during the test and it will depend on the club that you train at as to whether you're allowed to use it in training. For example I currently use a prong collar on my obedience dog when training but it doesn't even come to trials with me as they are banned by the state cainine council. I think with a good training plan you'll be able to train the dogs with the e-collar on and they will still behave once you remove them/stop using them. Denis gave some good advice there about the dogs not connecting the collar to the stim! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 Thanks for that Seita. Daegon is the one who is about to go back to obedience and he only really needs it for a recall if he were offlead. Daegon has a habit of putting his nose to the ground and blocking everything else except the smells out Kovu wont be going near obedience school for quite some time yet, so plenty of time to practice on him at home first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 My Rex is definitelly collar smart, however his recall improved without a collar as well. I would not trust him off lead under high distractions withouth the collar on him. The collar doesnt have to be on, and I dont have to have the remote, but the dogs must have the collar on. When he has the collar on - I can not remember when was the last time I stimed him. Divani - I did few ecollar sessions with her in the past but I really had no need to use the collar so I dont. I might use it if I decide to teach a sit on the move or drop on recall - is situations where the correction at the distance is difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted February 24, 2008 Author Share Posted February 24, 2008 myszka, that's what I'm thinking with Daegon as well, the teaching distance exercises. Daegon will try to get away with not doing something and sniffing the ground instead if he can, so I think the collar would be very useful in obedience very soon. The collar that would suit my dogs is apparently nearly $1000...so it might be a while unfortunately. Will have to hire a citronella collar for the barking in the mean time and hope it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 you can get a collar that has 15 levels for way under 1K from what I have been told even the one that has 9 levels suits most dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf82 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 So how do the collars work? You call the dog once, if he / she doesnt come, you zap them until they do? Is the zap much? I wouldn't want to put that on my dog unless i tried it on myself first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I wouldn't want to put that on my dog unless i tried it on myself first. I wouldnt either. What the stim is for my dogs I cant feel on myslef tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 So how do the collars work?You call the dog once, if he / she doesnt come, you zap them until they do? Is the zap much? I wouldn't want to put that on my dog unless i tried it on myself first. It depends on whether you are using it as positive punishment (for not coming) or negative reinforcement (where the dog learns he/she is in control of the stim "off switch by exhibiting the desired behaviour). Working level stim ..... which is lowest stim to which the dog indicates it felt something .... like an itch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Carthy Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 (edited) Wolf - A. So how do the collars work? B. You call the dog once, if he / she doesnt come, you zap them until they do? Denis Sorry Wolf can you please clarify what you wrote, A was a question immediately followed by B which was a statement of use with a question mark at the end, are you asking or telling everybody how they are used WolfIs the zap much? I wouldn't want to put that on my dog unless i tried it on myself first. Denis Judge for yourself, here’s vids of a human reaction and two dogs to the working level (the level you use on any dog) Testing The Working Level Of E-Collar On 8 Month Old Jack Russel http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...735919357023488 Testing The Working Level If E-Collar On Lab http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...526843747129672 Human experience http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...462894394441342 . Edited February 26, 2008 by Denis Carthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonmedia Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 My Rex is definitelly collar smart, however his recall improved without a collar as well.I would not trust him off lead under high distractions withouth the collar on him. The collar doesnt have to be on, and I dont have to have the remote, but the dogs must have the collar on. When he has the collar on - I can not remember when was the last time I stimed him. Divani - I did few ecollar sessions with her in the past but I really had no need to use the collar so I dont. I might use it if I decide to teach a sit on the move or drop on recall - is situations where the correction at the distance is difficult. Be careful using Citronella collars. Make sure your dog ids not alergic to them. Have known an owner to come home to a dog wearing one which had choked to death from an allergic reaction. Bonmedia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Be careful using Citronella collars. Make sure your dog ids not alergic to them. Have known an owner to come home to a dog wearing one which had choked to death from an allergic reaction. Where your advice is great I just wanted to say that in this thread we are not talking aobut anti barking collars of any type we are talking about remote training collars, knows as ecollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatelina Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I've judged for myself. And I can see why you would need an electric collar on such an unmanagable labrador!! For goodness sake... I didn't realise these were used in Australia. What a load of bullocks. Judge for yourself, here’s vids of a human reaction and two dogs to the working level (the level you use on any dog)Testing The Working Level Of E-Collar On 8 Month Old Jack Russel http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...735919357023488 Testing The Working Level If E-Collar On Lab http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...526843747129672 Human experience http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...462894394441342 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I've judged for myself That is where the problem lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studebaker Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 I bought one recently and we are in the beginning stages of training. In the right hands with K9's manual they are great - in the wrong hands they could be terrible. My boy is a working dog and it was imperative for his own safety that we have control off leash. His preyinstint is so high that he blaocks out all exterior noise and sounds. He can only concentrate on his 'prey' at the time. I have noticed in the short time that I have had it that he has learnt to stop and listen to a command. It will take a bit more time but the are definite improvements. We also had to get the expensive one due to paddock work (needed 800 m to 1km of range) but for the extra cost I also bought the training lessons as I didnt want to damage the dogin any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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