rar Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 hi all, I used to be a regular lurker, but haven't been around for a while (new baby in the family), but am now trying to locate a good training school/club in the Eastern 'burbs. I am near the Knox/Dandenong Ranges area, but am happy to travel if needed. We tried our local obedience club, and their methods/theories worked well with our other dog, but I feel we need something different for our current dog, as I think we need some education on the right way to teach him and the local club is volunteer run, and while they do a great job I think we need some extra help. Thanks very much in advance, R (I did a search on the forum before posting this, and didn't find any relevant threads. If I have missed them, my apologies, and could you plse post the link up?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 We service all areas for one on one and have group classes in Clayton South- don't know if that is too far? We run our group classes quite differently to most obedience clubs though. Are there any particular problems? Anything specific you are looking to achieve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted June 2, 2008 Author Share Posted June 2, 2008 We service all areas for one on one and have group classes in Clayton South- don't know if that is too far? We run our group classes quite differently to most obedience clubs though. Are there any particular problems? Anything specific you are looking to achieve? Hi Cosmolo, thanks for responding There are a few things we need to address: Walking on a loose lead- not happening, despite using bribery (treats), correction chain, distractions, we even tried a halti and I'm not a big fan of them. This is the main thing at the moment, as I need to be able to walk him with a pram, and at the moment I don't feel comfortable doing this. So his exercise is limited, and it isn't fair on him. We are clearly doing something wrong as he still won't walk properly on the lead, and I think we just need some help with this. He has no agression issues, and he is a big softie (aren't all gsp's?!) and I really feel that some basic training will just show us how to get his attention and gain his focus. Ultimately we want to be able to trust him off the lead, but I know that may be a while away yet.... I guess our main thing is that my DH and I don't agree on the correct way to train our boy, and this means there has been inconsistency. DH refused to look at other options/clubs/trainers (I think it is a pride thing and a cost thing), so I said we would continue doing it 'his' way for 6 months, and if no improvement, then we would do it 'my' way- seek further help. So the time is up, and I am now trying to find some help Let me know if I can PM you and go into details, Thanks, R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 I think you need to stop looking at treats as bribery, because used in the correct way they aren't bribing the dog, they are rewarding and if you're timing is right, rewarding correct behaviour will increase that behaviour. If you explain *how* you're trying to train the loose lead walking perhaps people can offer suggestions What don't you both agree on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Croydon Obedience Dog Club is relatively close - www.cdodc.com.au I agree with Tess . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessca Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 ADT should have a fairly close centre to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted June 3, 2008 Author Share Posted June 3, 2008 I think you need to stop looking at treats as bribery, because used in the correct way they aren't bribing the dog, they are rewarding and if you're timing is right, rewarding correct behaviour will increase that behaviour.If you explain *how* you're trying to train the loose lead walking perhaps people can offer suggestions What don't you both agree on? Tess, I am happy to go into detail, but as I am not a very regular contributor, I kinda didn't want to put my hand up for help and just expect it- if that make sense? But if anyone would like to offer some suggestions they will be greatly appreciated. We aren't using bribery, as it didn't seem to be working, so don't worry, we aren't doing that now. Basically I now walk him around a reserve near our house, to limit the embarrasment and the risk of being pulled along when we see other dogs/people. We are using the correction collar (choker chain) and it's basically, he pulls, we correct and say heel. When he is walking correctly we offer praise. This worked well for our other dog and we were able to walk her on a loose lead, off the lead etc. We are clearly doing something wrong, and it is at a point now where I am demanding we do something, as I am generally the one who takes him out. What we don't agree on.... hmmmm, DH (until about a month ago) had a different definition of 'heel' and as long as the lead was loose, he was happy for jesse to be sniffing all over the place etc. My version of heel is walking next to me on a loose lead- so obviously this caused some issues. DH also doesn't see the value in looking at other clubs/organisations for help- he doesn't believe that paying $$ will necessarily help- no, it may not, but he has made this decision without doing any research or even considering the possibility that it might help to look at other options other than the local club. Personally I think he has put it into the 'too hard basket' and is just avoiding it, hoping I stop bringing the subject up One other issue is that I have always generally being the one to walk Jesse- but I am now at home with a baby, so unable to take Jesse out during the day as I will have to also take a pram and I don't feel comfortable doing this. And now DH is getting home later when it is dark, and I feel a bit funny taking Jesse out on my own that late at night- he isn't scary enough to look at :p I have started to walk Jesse around the yard so there is less distracions, and I am also part way through trying to read and understand the Triangle of temptation information that is posted in the forum- so perhaps that may offer some guidance... time will tell I guess. Jesse will sit/drop and stay for short periods of time, and he has to do this before eating, coming inside etc, so it sounds silly, but I would be thrilled if I could just get him walking properly, and then I could look at off lead stuff to allow him to run more and get rid of his energy. Thanks for letting me vent :rolleyes: R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Vent away, and ask away. Don't need to earn anything to get advice! :rolleyes: I suspect that yep as you know, main problem is that the dog is getting a thousand mixed messages and no consistency and that is the delay in learning. Basically it seems you want loose lead walking by your side. That's not heeling, still loose leash like your OH wants, but with the criteria that he must be on your left. So keep that in mind whenever he's walked. There are a variety of ways to teach loose leash and it will depend on what works for your dog. I keep in mind the rule that the dog must NEVER go forward on a walk if he's pulling. Giving in for a few blocks only strengthens the behaviour you're trying to get rid of. So aim for say a week or two where your walks may take a lot longer than usual because you're in teaching mode. The popular ways to teach it are - STOP as soon as dog pulls and wait for dog to come back to you (I don't like this one as it takes forever and sometime they just stand there blankly for a LONG time, hehe). STOP as soon as dog pulls and walk backwards so the dog has to face you and knows he cannot get to where he was going. Begin again and only move forward when he's not pulling. Praise and treat him every time he is in the correct position (and make sure you know clearly in your head what that position is). It is easier in a way to set him up so he wants to go somewhere in particular (like the next tree) and the only way he can get there is by not pulling. It may take a while at first. When he does get to the tree without pulling, verbally praise him and then allow him to sniff the tree. You really do need to reward his good behaviour though, which is not bribery There are many ways to teach loose leash though so up to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charli73 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 There is ADT in Scoresby which should be near you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliehotel Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Hi there, I understand where you are coming from completely!! I had similar issues with one of my dogs (a big boisterous lab x called Minna) who was virtually impossible to walk on a lead, at her worst she was able to pull me off the foot path and on to the road!!!! I despaired of ever being able to learn what I/we were doing wrong and how to fix it, I honestly thought that I was going to have to put up with it. But after reading up as much as I could (particularly from DOL) I decided to go with some one on one professional training and the recommendation was to try Judi at Pro K9. If you'd told me that just 2 sessions with a professional trainer could make such a difference, I never would have believed you. But it works!!!!!!!!!! Within the first session Minna was walking without pulling on the lead, at my side, looking to me for direction and I had learned what I needed to do to work with Minna to make sure she continued this standard of behaviour when we were on our own. In the second session we built on the foundations and also learned heaps about how to manage dogs and babies (our first one is due in 2 months and I was concerned about making sure we managed this issue properly for both the dogs and the baby's sake). Minna's a different dog!!!! I can really recommend going for some one on one professional training - it's worth the money and it was a lot cheaper than I thought it would be, especially considering the results that could be achieved in such a short time. But I guess that's the whole point of one on one training - it's just about you and your dog and your issues, with 100% of the instructors attention. I can't speak highly enough of Judi at Pro K9, she's just great and we learned so much from her. Judi's based in Berwick which is not too far from you if you'd like to get in touch with her. her website is www.ProK9.com.au Good luck!!!!! And don't give up. Solutions are out there and you'll find the one that is right for you. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvawilow Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Croydon Obedience Dog Club is relatively close - www.cdodc.com.au And if you train at Croydon you get to see a very handsome Aussie boy! Seriously, the dogs that I've seen from that club are great - wonderful ambassadors for the club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) Charliehotel .... thanks for the words. I am thrilled to hear that Minna is still going so well for you, and that you are taking the preparatory steps in training before baby arrives . I know these things will stand you in good stead for when your new baby arrives, and of course, for afterwards as well. Again - appreciate the words and wonderful to hear the early progress we saw, is continuing for you . Don't forget that it is your work that is paying the dividends, so credit to you . Sorry to hijack your thread Rar :nahnah:. I just haven't heard regarding Minna's progress in a while, and was coincidentally only thinking of her and Charliehotel a few days or so ago. ETA: Will be thinking of you, CH, in a couple of months. Can we expect to hear from you on DOL once your baby has joined our world? Edited June 5, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliehotel Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Well I certainly hope that I don't disappear in a pile of dirty nappies once I become a mum!!!!!!!! But everyone keeps telling me that I'll have no time for anything..........I'm going to have to get VERY organised!!!!! Being on DOL certainly gives me faith that you can have dogs and kids without neglecting either of them, there's plenty of people here who manage it so I know it can be done...... So back to you Rar, this is your thread after all!!!! Hope you find a solution that works for you and your furkid - there WILL be success for you both I'm sure!! Lots of us have overcome very similar problems to what you are experiencing. There were times I cried with frustration and wanted to give up, I was so sure that nothing could be done. But now looking back now I just wish I had taken action earlier because we would have been back on track so much sooner. Getting specific, targeted help just for us really made all the difference, and it was seriously only two sessions. Best money I ever spent on my dogs!!!!! Who knows, once the baby arrives maybe I'll be able to offload her to my OH on Sunday mornings and start sessions with the local ADT..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Thankyou to everyone for your comments- much appreciated. My apologies for not responding earlier, I have been dealing with a sick baby and any free time tends to be taken up having a shower or cooking tea tess- thanks for detailing one option that might help- we did this for quite some time last year, and then again earlier tihs year- so we are at the point where he will stop and walk backwards to us when we stop when he pulls. But we take 4 steps, he starts to pull again, and yep... it takes forever to get anywhere. charliehotel- thanks for the recommendatoin. I actually looked into details for private lessons early last year, but we didn't follow it up due to DH's reluctance. I think that having some private lessons to learn techniques and approaches followed by some classes may be the best solution. All the VERY best for the arrival of your new baby :cool: It really is an amazing time, so enjoy! Charli73- we actually went to ADT last year as well to their info session. DH didn't like the look of them, so nothing happened there either. Perhaps I could go again to another session and see if they offer individual lessons as well as group classes. Can anyone offer feedback on ADT? Erny- I may well be in contact with you, thanks. Embarrassingly enough, I think it was you I contacted last year, but never followed through with our plans for some help. Hopefully you won't remember me ;) Thanks again, R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Erny- I may well be in contact with you, thanks. Embarrassingly enough, I think it was you I contacted last year, but never followed through with our plans for some help. Hopefully you won't remember me Wouldn't matter Rar. Always here. Like to see dogs AND their owners smiling . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siralee Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 I was searching for information about Dog training groups and came across this thread. We have just signed up with ADT in Oakleigh and it is reassuring that at least two people have recommended them. One thing I have taken away from the information sessions that I have been to is that other than socialising your dog, most dog training centres really focus on training the humans as it is us that can confuse our dogs during their training. That is certainly what I need as Lucy (4mth beagle) is the first dog I have lived with since I was a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toy dog Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 I was searching for information about Dog training groups and came across this thread. We have just signed up with ADT in Oakleigh and it is reassuring that at least two people have recommended them.One thing I have taken away from the information sessions that I have been to is that other than socialising your dog, most dog training centres really focus on training the humans as it is us that can confuse our dogs during their training. That is certainly what I need as Lucy (4mth beagle) is the first dog I have lived with since I was a child. can i ask, is it possible that a dog can change their behaviour for the people that own it? what i mean is, i like our dog to heel by my side and he does that for me, whereas my OH (sounds like the DH described in this thread), he refuses to wind the lead in so the dog goes all over the place and he lets the dog do that. the dog pretty much changes to suit him. is this normal? or is my dog more intelligentthan most changing, obviously his behaviour to suit each person>? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Bigdogs- yes this is normal- dogs learn very quickly what they can and can't do for different family members/ handlers and respond accordingly! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toy dog Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 oh thats a relief i was getting stressed that i was confusing our dog! thanks for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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