Introducing Dogs When They Can't Stand Each Other

[tramissa]

Okay, I need help. A good friend is having to move into our house for a few months. No way around it - this is the only place she can be for now. Time could be anywhere from 2 - 6 months. I know this is long, but I have included as much info as I can.

I have - Jonothan - lowchen, arrived Dec 07, entire, show dog, 4 years old. Displays some dominant behaviours. We are starting agility next week (beginners, start with learning clicker training etc so no physical work for quite a few weeks) and have been doing at home obedience the past few weeks. He is currently in a pen during the day due to a back injury and is going to a chiropractor weekly. It is a minor injury and almost healed. He has a walk daily. Lately it is a small walk because of the injury. On lead or crated inside the house due to peeing on furniture (part of the dominance mentioned above). Sleeps in a crate.

Minnie - lowchen, 11 years old, desexed. Almost the perfect dog - only unwanted behaviour is begging for food and has minor separation anxiety (only with me - manifests as pacing/panting). Sleeps on my bed.

V also has a dog that will have to come with her. He is a 7 year old, entire maltese. Shows a lot of dominant behaviours, including the bull stamping/ripping up grass behaviour, peeing on things, barking, humping etc. He is, to put it bluntly, a spoilt brat, although V is getting better with him. I had managed to convince them to desex him, but then the stupid vet they went to told them that they would have to be home with him for 5 days to stop him from pulling out stitches and they can't afford that. Because the vet told them, they won't believe it when I say there are other ways to prevent stitch pulling, including internal stitches etc. Will keep working on that one, although at 7 I don't know if that will affect this situation anyway.

To the situation - Charlie and Minnie have been good mates since May 06 when we moved here. Minnie and Jonathan are best of mates and always together. When Jonathan had arrived, I had stated that I did not want Charlie over until Jonathan had time to settle in and then we would do short intros at the park, on lead etc. When Jonathan had only been here about 1 1/2 - 2 weeks, V came over with Charlie without my knowledge and all 3 dogs were placed in the back yard together. There was some growling, the bull digging from Charlie and a lot of peeing on things. No fighting occurred. Jonathan started peeing in the house after this though.

The next time he came over was when a few of us were having some drinks. They had been running together all night, Jonathan pretty much ignoring Charlie but interacting occaisionally. Charlie was more interested in following Minnie around. I went inside for something, then heard dog fighting noise and ran out. Both dogs had been under the table, Charlie had been growling under the table for some time apparently (audible). Dogs were separated with V picking up Charlie and holding him at chest level and Jonno was scruffed by another friend who held his face towards her. Jonno was in the middle of snapping and she got scared and dropped him. Jonno turned and tried to jump up to get Charlie again, leaving scratches on V's back. At this poing (probably 2 - 3 seconds from when I first heard the noise) I reached Jonno and scruffed him, lifted him off the ground by the scruff, smacked him and then took him inside and crated him for the rest of the time they were there.

They haven't met again since then.

Now that V is back and is moving in this weekend, I need them to get along or at least tolerate each other. The backyard is being separated this week (putting a solid gate in at the narrowest point - they won't be able to see each other through it, nor get to each other at all. They will be separated whenever we are not home. I would like them to get along inside at night however.

Yesterday we took the 2 boys only on a walk. I asked V to meet me at the front of my house and we'd walk them down the street and through the park. Needless to say, I wasn't listened to and as I heard the car pull up I went to get Jonno's lead to put on and take him out the front. They drove into the garage and V let Charlie on the ground. Charlie ran straight over to where my 2 were in a pen. Jonno started barking and rushing the side of the pen and then turned and knocked Minnie over and held her on the ground. He did not hurt her and did not use teeth. I grabbed Charlie and chucked him inside the house and told V to meet me out the front. I was too mad to say anything to her about not following what I had said to do at the time.

We started walking and the first 10 metres, Jonno kept lunging. After that he settled down. We were walking maybe 5 or 6 meters apart at this stage. As we walked we very gradually walked closer and they were comfortably walking with less than 1 meter between them. They'd look at each other and both try and walk ahead of the other but both (especially Jonno) was listening and responding to voice commands (I say especially Jonno because Charlie has 0 obedience). We got to the park and they were going great, so I said to V, let's sit a bit apart and see how they go - I sat down about 2 meters away from her and Jonno was quite happy to sit and then lie down next to me, facing the other 2 with no signs of aggression that I could see. V then let Charlie come over and he attempted to come straight to me (he ran over, she wasn't holding the leash, which I didn't realise. By the time I reacted, he was close to me). Jonno lunged for him but I pulled him back before he made contact.

After this I made V sit on the ground with Charlie on a tight lead while I walked in circles around them with Jonno, trying to find out his comfort distance. Once again, we got to within about 1 meter of them. We decided to head home and both walked comfortable within 1 meter of each other all the way home.

At home, I penned Jonno and Charlie was loose in the yard. Jonno was anxious for approximately 10 minutes - panting and pacing and barking. He then settled and lay down. We went inside and Charlie came with us. When we came back out, Jonno started the panting/pacing/barking again but for only about 7 minutes. This continued - whenever Charlie was around for a period of time, Jonno was relaxed. If he came inside for any length of time and came back out again, Jonno would start again, but taking less time to relax each time.

Now, we do NOT have a behaviouralist where I live. I think we may have just gotten a Delta trainer (heard an add on the radio this morning).

Am I doing the right thing, should I continue with the walks? The plan was to walk the 2 of them together until they were comfortable around each other and then introduce Minnie to the walks until all 3 are comfortable around each other (thinking Minnie, and me, may be a trigger for the dominant behaviour).

V moves in on Sat, so it's fairly urgent, but we do accept that they just may not ever be able to be together, in which case crates, pens and the separated yard will become our best friends for the next few months. It would be so much more pleasant if they at least didn't want to kill each other whenever they are in the same vicinity.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[Vickie]

I have no advice but wish you all the best. We had a friend & dog staying here for a few months & made the decision in the beginning to keep them separated. It required some patience & diligence but we got through it & we decided that given the ages & history of a couple of the dogs that was the safest way to go.

[poodlefan]

This will be tricky. You have a dominant male coming onto your dominant male's turf. Without professional assistance, I think the best you can hope for is to manage it.

Keeping them separate when they are not supervised, as you plan to do, is essential. Inside, I would install two crates and allow one or the other out at a time, not both. You can probably slowly build up to both dogs being out and being rewarded for not reacting to each other.

I think the walks are a great idea as it's on neutral turf.. and I'd be keeping them up.

You may find that levels of reaction decrease as they become more used to each other's company. However, I'd be pushing hard to getting V to desex their dog. You're doing them one hell of a favour by allowing them to move in.. time for them to step up and help things go smoothly. I'd be reading the riot act over not taking chances with putting the two dogs together because you can guarantee they'd have no idea what to do if there's a dust up. My guess is that the greatest danger for complacent behaviour would result in both males loose and unsupervised inside.

I'd be very wary of their behaviour around resources (including you). Feeding them separately, in a routine would be a great idea.

However, I'd be quietly reinforcing that V is moving their dog into YOUR dogs home.. some adjustment of their dog's behaviour and management will be called for to ensure this goes as smoothly as possible.

[tramissa]

Thanks guys Especially Poodlefan. I guess I will continue on as I have planned to. And yes, I had a big chat to V last night, and I hope that she now realises that for any chance of these two even being able to tolerate each other she has to listen to what I have said, and follow it. I have told her that we can't afford to have another incident between them at this stage, as each one just reinforces the behaviour. I am going to increase my training with Jonno and I will also start helping her train Charlie. I can say now, that Charlie will not be getting his own way here, the way he does when he is with them. Dogs in this household come last. They are loved and cared for and probably spoilt rotten, but the humans' needs and wants come first and the dogs fit in with that. I will not let a temporary dog upset that balance.

I'll never give up on trying to get Charlie desexed either

[persephone]

I think you are doing a terrifically sensible job so far!

best of luck with the extra person and dog in your space .....

[tramissa]

Thanks Persephone I just wish we had a behaviouralist (sp?) or someone that could come in to help me out up here. I'd feel so much better if we did.

[anthony mazzeri]

Have you considered the 6 month Suprelorin desexing implant? Should last the duration of your friend's stay.

[tramissa]

Thankfully we no longer need to worry about this as V has decided it is all too hard and she is staying where she is. I am quite relieved also.

[Just Midol]

Also with resources... You have to figure out what the dog considers a resource.

I made this mistake with Lily and Gizmo once. I couldn't figure out why they kept fighting but it was because we had differing ideas on what was a resource.