KismetKat Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I am in the awlful situation that my dog was attacked by a good friend's dog. We've long known her dog has some issues with mine but they've been OK. But recently the dog attacked mine and it was a full on attack. Only the fact the dog was muzzled saved by dog (and me) from serious injury or worse. The attack was unprovoked. We were 4 metres away when the dog rushed us to attack. My friend is now utlising an e-collar (and yes she knows how to use it). She is teaching the dog to ignore ALL dogs. My question is - is an e-collar enough to keep this dog in a command position (and off my dog) when the dog isn't muzzled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Impossible to say with any certainty without seeing how she is using and training with the e collar. It can be done but there are lots of training variables and it needs to be done properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 (edited) KismetKat .... I agree with Cosmolo. There are so many variables involved - including the dog's temperament, history of experience etc. etc. However, I have utilised the e-collar with some dogs, producing excellent results that were beyond the expectations of the owners. Every dog is different though so the lowest expectation should be improvement and the highest expectation should be realistic. A bit of a non-answer, but then the question you ask is a bit like asking "how long is a piece of string"? ETA: By my experience, if anything is going to do it, the e-collar will ..... paired with the appropriate methodology :D. Edited August 30, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KismetKat Posted August 30, 2008 Author Share Posted August 30, 2008 (edited) A bit of a non-answer, but then the question you ask is a bit like asking "how long is a piece of string"? Fair enough. And I really don't want to give too many details. I have a good degree of confidence in the owner and their ability to train. After the incident there was an intensive 45 minute session with the dog with the e-collar. After that the dog was certainly staying nicely seated (on lead) next to the owner when we both talked - my dog also seated at my side. However - left off-lead in a command position with the handler out of sight (tho, I trust, watching) I have concerns. How safe is this, with the dog unmuzzled, given that it has had something of a 'success' in attacking my dog? And wha tif it is not in a 'command' position? The dog out-masses mine by a factor of 5. Would the e-collar be enough to halt it in full attack-mode if it broke position? (and keep in mind the attack that did happen happened so quickly there was no time for the owner to do anything). I guess what I am asking - is the e-collar enough on its own? Edited August 30, 2008 by KismetKat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvsdogs Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 (edited) I don't know much about them, but I woundn't trust this dog an inch. Is the owner a dog behaviourist? If not I think she should see one. What breed of dog is it? Does it have issues with other dogs besides yours? Why was it muzzled? Where do you live? which state? what are the laws regarding this situation? I would not take a chance with my dog being anywhere near this dog especially if it's unmuzzled. Just my opinion. Edited August 30, 2008 by luvsdogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KismetKat Posted August 30, 2008 Author Share Posted August 30, 2008 (edited) We both know not to trust the dog with my dog. Its breed and our location are not relevant. My questions is really, given (I hope) my friend is quick enough to use the e-collar, is the e-collar sufficient in its own to protect my dog. Or should the dog always be muzzled in my dog's presence if the dog is not held by a short lead? Edited August 30, 2008 by KismetKat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvsdogs Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 (edited) I only asked where you were because different states have different laws. Like in Victoria you have to have a sign on your gate if you own a dangerous dog. http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/con...994294/s39.html Edited August 30, 2008 by luvsdogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 KK- there is no way to know or be sure without seeing the dog and the training. :D Someone over the internet saying yes would be nothing more than a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 KK,I agree totally with Erny and Cosmolo that there are many many variables involved.Many of the variables will be obvious but there are also factors that your friend and you may have not picked up on. I would be very very inclined to consult a good trainer. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilly Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 (edited) We used an electronic collar on our rottie once during some of his security training as he would sometimes resist the release when going in for a bite - particularly when he was away from the handler. ie chase and catch. Lets just say the collar got to almost the top setting before he even registered it and its highest setting did not make him release ... it just annoyed him more. I very much doubt that a dog in attack mode would release just because of the collar - I would be concerned it would cause the dog to continue or increase the attack. Personally I would never be able to trust that dog again regardless of the amount of training it has received. Like you said KismetKat - the only thing that save you and your dog from injury was the muzzle. What if it attacked again and it didn't have the muzzle. Our GSD has a few issues with certain dogs and because of this we can never trust him around these dogs - even though he will now sit nicely on a lead when they are around. He will even behave himself when they are on either side of a fence but we know that given the chance he will go in for a bite. He got two chances and will never get another chance. Edited August 30, 2008 by Tilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Regardless of the training, if her dog does not like yours, why risk it by allowing them together off lead at all? Especially as the other dog is so much bigger than yours. Certainly why would you do this with the other owner out of sight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I very much doubt that a dog in attack mode would release just because of the collar - I would be concerned it would cause the dog to continue or increase the attack. There are different ways of using the e-collar, Tilly. It is not about waiting for the dog to be in attack mode when the collar is used, and not about high stims. This is why I mentioned "methodology" above. But again - as to what, where, when and the likely results for any one individual dog ..... a professional consult would be needed and the owner would need the tuition as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KismetKat Posted August 30, 2008 Author Share Posted August 30, 2008 Kavik - I'm certainly not allowing them off-lead together. Erny - I will try and find out more about the methodology being used. The incident happened at dog school and the further training of the other dog (since the incident) is being done under the eye of the school. My concern was, however, the owner wanting to rely on the e-collar without a muzzle as back-up. Particuly given the discrepency in sizes and the other dog is a big hefty dog from working lines of a breed often used as security dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 KK, I am shuddering at the very thought of trusting this dog with just an e-collar and no muzzle. Has the attack affected your dog?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke GSP Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I very much doubt that a dog in attack mode would release just because of the collar - I would be concerned it would cause the dog to continue or increase the attack. There are different ways of using the e-collar, Tilly. It is not about waiting for the dog to be in attack mode when the collar is used, and not about high stims. This is why I mentioned "methodology" above. But again - as to what, where, when and the likely results for any one individual dog ..... a professional consult would be needed and the owner would need the tuition as well. I agree with Erny 100%. I believe that you cannot answer this question over the internet, you need to see a specialist who can read the dog/owner/environment in question and then formulate an appropriate regime for both the dog and the owner. It's quite possible that it may not be the dog with the problem. A specialist should be able to see the issue and help you and your friend deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KismetKat Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 KK, I am shuddering at the very thought of trusting this dog with just an e-collar and no muzzle.Has the attack affected your dog?? I don't think so. Somehow I managed to very calm afterwards and got her in a sit by my side. And the other dog (once leashed and controlled) was also seated next to the owner while we had a talk about it all. I got my dog doing some drops and re-sits and gave her rewards. She seemed ok. We were back there today - I had to sit in the car for a while as there was a heavy shower - my dog did some quivering but it could well have been the rain or just the unusual situation of sitting in the car not doing anything (she has some terrier in her so sometimes does the quiver thing). Once out of the car she was fine and enjoyed her dog class. The other owner was there but was a long distance away and didn't aproach us at all. The situation has gotten awkward as the other owner is upset that I spoke to the head trainer about it all. So perhaps more than one reason for lack of contact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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