Mohican Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Hi everyone, I have just spent an intense first week with our new puppy, Mohican. He's 9 weeks tomorrow, absolutely gorgeous and well-settled in now, car-trained with a halter, will go into his crate/kennel but not trained yet to lock him in it (15mins max and slowly increasing), lead-walking well, tethering well close to us, doing well on NILIF for a pup, and getting better at TOT BUT, I've just noticed he's getting more excited around me, not my OH. We figured it was cause I play with him more during the day, but I just read on the Leerburg.com website that they don't recommend tug-toys for puppies. Mohican LOVES his tug toy and I've taught him to pull Have I made a bad mistake? He's tugging on EVERYTHING with me, nipping more on my hands and does it more when I yelp or turn away so I've gone back to distraction with his chew toy and teaching him drop by offering an alternative treat than my hand, trousers or socks! But it doesn't seem to be working. I have heaps of chew toys, but he loves his balls and prey toys best. Maybe tug-toys are great for dogs that aren't so prey driven, but I think I may have taught my boy to tug at anything when he's around me by accident? Any thoughts? I guess it's only been a week and undoing it now isn't as bad as 6 months down the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 (edited) Your puppy is gorgeous - there is nothing better looking than a sibe pup LOL! I would read up on training in drive, if you are already looking into programs like NILIF and TOT. You can use his prey drive and urge to tug on things to help you with your training. Prey drive is incredibly useful when training in drive and the way you develop it is by using a tug toy and encouraging the dog to want to play with it. You will find TID will help you control his prey drive too. An article on drive training: http://www.k9force.net/index.html?row2col2=tid.html Edited November 3, 2008 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 (edited) Leerburgs a douche (not really, but I disagree with A LOT of what he says.) Play tug and develop his drive. Edited November 3, 2008 by Lord Midol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohican Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 Thanks huski - I saw some of the articles on prey drive but got a bit confused. Will have a look. It's great to know I can use it as a positive. It might help me socialise him to the broom, rake, mop and vacuum I can't do any housework without him being supervised outside when OH gets home! Thanks LM - I had a giggle at your comment and very relieved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 (edited) Thanks huski - I saw some of the articles on prey drive but got a bit confused. Will have a look. It's great to know I can use it as a positive. It might help me socialise him to the broom, rake, mop and vacuum I can't do any housework without him being supervised outside when OH gets home! Thanks LM - I had a giggle at your comment and very relieved One large point of training in drive is that the dog will look to you for drive satisfaction which, when it comes to training sibes, can be a very useful thing K9 Force does drive training as distance learning package, so if you are interested I am sure if you email him he can set you on the right track and what would be most suitable for your pup. ETA: A thread on the topic: http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...c=43795&hl= Edited November 3, 2008 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 (edited) Thanks huski - I saw some of the articles on prey drive but got a bit confused. Will have a look. It's great to know I can use it as a positive. It might help me socialise him to the broom, rake, mop and vacuum I can't do any housework without him being supervised outside when OH gets home! Thanks LM - I had a giggle at your comment and very relieved Lol. The more you read/watch of his the more you realise he is very pro-hard corrections. If you want to train this way then that's your choice but I chose to use the smallest correction I can possibly use... and he has some really warped views on everything, not just dog training. Personally, I own eight of his DVDs and learnt a lot from them... Not just "how to do things" but also "how NOT to do things" - I'm still a better owner for watching them though. Edited November 3, 2008 by Lord Midol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam&Saki Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Puppy pre-school told us never to play tug with our dogs because it encourages dogs to be aggressive and dominant with their owners. Dog obedience school told us that tug toys are the best toys you can use to play with, bond with, and train your dogs. Another one of the bazillions of issues that dog trainers / dog people are divided on... Personally I play tug with my Akita and have not experienced any ill effects Just go with what works for you and your pup x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Puppy pre-school told us never to play tug with our dogs because it encourages dogs to be aggressive and dominant with their owners. I agree it is a topic that can cause a bit of confusion. The way I am starting to train drive means that the dog has to look to you for permission to play with the toy, so you teach the dog that it is a resource you control. So there is no room for the dog to see it as an opportunity to be aggressive or dominant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I agree with Huski. As long as the pup understands the 'rules' - then tugging is one of the best things you can play with your pup! Our guys know a "give" command - where they are asked to give it back on command while we are playing and then given a release command "okay" giving them permission to take it again. As long as your pup understands those two basic rules, then you are well on your way to enjoying tug with your pup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohican Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 Huski, hmmm, I have noticed when he gets excited, this is what he's doing - he's looking to me to play and tug. He's so good otherwise, offering up sits in return for food rewards without even showing the food. And offering a sit when i grab his squeak toy. He only gets toys after sitting first. So how will drive training work with my OH as I want us both to be alpha (I'm happy to be the bitch and OH the alpha male) so do I get OH to do this training with him too? Thanks for the info on K9 distance courses - awesome! will check that out too. Sam&Saki, I'm starting to understand mixed views on all things dogs will occur. I'd def go with what works for us and Moh. I feel it also depends on the breed and temperament. We start puppy preschool tomorrow after being undecided due to our breeder saying parvo has come up in a few vets in Perth recently. The Morley vet has sterilised rooms for puppy training in the cat section and only puppies with first vacs can go so I'm hoping he will be ok. I'll be prepared for mixed views there (!) Just hope Moh isn't a bully. LM, hard corrections don't sit with me so won't be looking further into Leerburg but will do so with K9 as we're already doing his TOT and my OH likes that. I'm also a 'only what's done with love will last' and there's a fine line with tough love, but that's not to say Leerburg's training doesn't and hasn't worked for others or you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohican Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 I agree with Huski. As long as the pup understands the 'rules' - then tugging is one of the best things you can play with your pup! Our guys know a "give" command - where they are asked to give it back on command while we are playing and then given a release command "okay" giving them permission to take it again. As long as your pup understands those two basic rules, then you are well on your way to enjoying tug with your pup! Yes, I better work on the 'give' command. We're already using 'ok' in TOT as the 'you have permission to eat your food' command and we've been using it in and out of doors, making him sit first then 'ok' to enter, so I'd say he will come to know it's a permission granted command. I'll work on that this arvo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Huski, hmmm, I have noticed when he gets excited, this is what he's doing - he's looking to me to play and tug. He's so good otherwise, offering up sits in return for food rewards without even showing the food. And offering a sit when i grab his squeak toy. He only gets toys after sitting first. So how will drive training work with my OH as I want us both to be alpha (I'm happy to be the bitch and OH the alpha male) so do I get OH to do this training with him too? Thanks for the info on K9 distance courses - awesome! will check that out too. I think this a question best suited for K9 Force but I think it works best with just one person doing the drive training, although I could be wrong. I am the only one who is allowed to do the drive training in our house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 (edited) LM, hard corrections don't sit with me so won't be looking further into Leerburg but will do so with K9 as we're already doing his TOT and my OH likes that. I'm also a 'only what's done with love will last' and there's a fine line with tough love, but that's not to say Leerburg's training doesn't and hasn't worked for others or you. It works, but I'd rather not. I do use corrections, but I'd rather use the least amount of force possible. ETA: The question above depends on what you want out of your dog. Edited November 3, 2008 by Lord Midol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohican Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 I want Mohican to respond to both my OH and I, for instance, when we ask him to not chase the cat or to not chase dogs when walking, as obviously my OH will sometimes be home alone and walking him alone too. I'd hate to think my cat would only be safe with me around, or is that a silly assumption? I'll take huski's advice and contact Steve at K9Force as it seems many queries are unique for your situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I want Mohican to respond to both my OH and I, for instance, when we ask him to not chase the cat or to not chase dogs when walking, as obviously my OH will sometimes be home alone and walking him alone too. I'd hate to think my cat would only be safe with me around, or is that a silly assumption? I'll take huski's advice and contact Steve at K9Force as it seems many queries are unique for your situation. It's not that the dog won't respond to anyone else giving it commands or that it will only 'behave' when you are around. I think it would be easier for you to do something like drive training yourself as working with the handler should hold the highest value for the dog. But definitely contact Steve as he will be able to tailor the program to your situation and needs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohican Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 Excellent, thanks huski. I've emailed Steve and spoken to my OH and will let you know how we go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohican Posted November 7, 2008 Author Share Posted November 7, 2008 Hi guys, we're doing Steve's (K9 Force) distance package 'Raising your pup the right way' with some drive exercises - great how he customises each program for your circumstances Can't wait to get started. heaps for your help and huski, for the referral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Hi guys, we're doing Steve's (K9 Force) distance package 'Raising your pup the right way' with some drive exercises - great how he customises each program for your circumstances Can't wait to get started. heaps for your help and huski, for the referral. Sounds great Mohican Glad to hear you are on the right track now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kissindra Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 that is great M! It's confusing sometimes to wade through conflicting advice but you've got a great source of dependable knowledge there Our puppy preschool recommended no tug of war until they knew the "leave it" command, IMO it's an invaluable command to teach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy_dragonfly Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Actually this confused me too. My pup has a tug toy but I don't tug on it. She just pulls it around the yard. She plays fetch and I've taught her to drop the ball, I just say "drop it" and she releases, if she pulls I won't throw it again. I got told not to tug because it might encourage her to chase the chooks?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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