ruthless Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Does anyone have an aggressive dog that they take to group obedience classes? I have some questions If you're in Sydney, what club do you go to, when do they train and would you recommend it? How do the trainers address the issue to avoid any situations occurring in class? How big are the class sizes? Is there a club policy on aggressive dogs? [bandanas, vests, etc.] Have you found it helpful for your dogs aggression to be around other dogs in a controlled environment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 If I had my time with Zoe over again I would do a lot of things differently to address her dog aggression One of these would be my approach to group obedience lessons, which we attended from 4 months to 4 years of age (yes I am a sucker for punishment considering she started showing aggression around 6 months of age!). What I did was to attend classes as per usual and try to give her space enough so that she wouldn't react. Didn't work as nobody listened when I told them she was aggressive, and her aggression got worse ;) What I would do if I had my time over again: Develop a strategy for dealing with this behaviour first, before going to classes, that I had previously worked on around a small number of dogs (if I decided to go to group obedience. Personally I found that she enjoyed agility a lot more!). I would talk to the instructor and tell them about her problems and work on the periphery of classes working with the strategy for keeping attention that I had previously perfected in a less distracting environment. Once I had my dog to the point where we could walk around the environment at a distance from other dogs with mine being relaxed and not reacting, maybe I would join the class at a distance for a short period (not the whole hour class). Obviously this would require an understanding club who is not too rigid in the way they run things. I would recommend Western Suburbs obedience for this as they are quite flexible and I found them understanding of my problems with Zoe. They have small class sizes and most of the dogs and handlers are very experienced triallers so the dogs are well under control and not overly excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvsdogs Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 (edited) I would recommend Western Suburbs obedience for this as they are quite flexible ;) and I found them understanding of my problems with Zoe. They have small class sizes and most of the dogs and handlers are very experienced triallers so the dogs are well under control and not overly excited. I go to Western Suburbs & if the dog is mildly aggressive we have them go around the outside of classes far enough away that the dog doesn't react. If there is a real problem we will recommend you go to a vet behaviourist to be assessed/helped. Edited March 15, 2009 by luvsdogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 (edited) Thanks for your replies :rolleyes: I'm surprised there's not more. I wonder does that mean most people with aggressive dogs don't take them to obedience classes ... Edited March 16, 2009 by ruthless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickasyoucan Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Thanks for your replies ;)I'm surprised there's not more. I wonder does that mean most people with aggressive dogs don't take them to obedience classes ... Ruth, I would think it would depend on both the level of aggression in the dog and more importantly the owner's ability to be under effective control. I would imagine clubs would also be thinking about their public liability policies. I will give you an example from the opposite side of the coin if you like. One of my colleagues has adopted 2 small dogs and has worked really hard with one of them who is very fearful of other large dogs and has a tendency to bark, mild fear aggression or go totally into shutdown. She has been taking them to free obedience classes offered through their local council by Hanrob and things have been going well. However, at that class a man (who I am sure has the best intentions) has also been attending with a dog aggressive rottweiler. Unfortunately, the man has a bad leg, the dog is strong and, according to my colleague, he does not have effective control. Result has been that on 3 separate occasions the dog has lunged at, pinned other dogs in the class. My colleague who has worked hard to build up her dog's confidence, has now seen her dog take huge steps backward after being pinned by the rottweiler. The upshot is that the owner of the rottie has been advised that they should have one on one lessions and has been told they cannot attend the class. It is very hard because at least that person has been trying to something with his rottie which is commendable but on the other hand you do have to think about the club, their public liability insurance and above all the comfort and safety of the other members of the group. Please don't think I am for an instant suggesting you don't have effective control, but this may be a reason why some clubs might be wary of dog aggressive dogs (depending on the level of aggression). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Paws Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 How do the trainers address the issue to avoid any situations occurring in class?I have put 3 dogs within about 10 months through our club with the 1st one going into the highest level within about 4months so when I started with my aggressive girl they skipped me going into beginners class and put me straight into level 1.It's a fairly small club and they have basically left it up to me as they know I am responsible and would do whats necessary to keep other peoples dogs safe How big are the class sizes?At the moment our classes are larger than normall as we have a lack of instructors so class 3 and 4 are combined so that level has about 12 or more people in it.I generally work on the outside of the class and will vary my distance depending on my dogs responce to the dog.If I'm not comfortable doing something I will stand out.I'm only there for socialization really ,not obedience as she's already really good at obedience Is there a club policy on aggressive dogs? [bandanas, vests, etc.]Have not seen anything really but I generally have a muzzle handy if I was not confident and ask the instructor that I do single recalls etc so no other dog is off leash at the same time Have you found it helpful for your dogs aggression to be around other dogs in a controlled environment? Yes.At first she was overwhelmed but with time she has improved.I had not taken her for a fair while as it was xmas than I took one of my other dogs.Took her back a couple of weeks ago and was quite pleased with the behaviour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeKath Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I will come back and reply to this a bit later when I have time. I do have a dog with aggression problems when it comes to other dogs and we have been taking him to obedience classes to help with this - it's been stressful! I'll be back later to tell you what's happened so far, he's only been to two classes though so I don't have much experience on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I say what Kavik says, except that I have also been to the club she mentioned and I consider their classes not small. there is over 10 people in the class. Well this was on the Tuesday nights. But instructors were quite good. As an overall comment - in the clubs that I have been to (several) instructors are often not qualified anywhere near the standard needed for a agressive dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) I have taken Micha to group obedience class as part of distraction training. But we were also working with a behaviourist, and it was a few months before I felt his focus was at a level where he could work that closely with other dogs. The club I go to has a yellow ribbon policy, you tie a yellow ribbon onto the dog's leash and everyone knows that means that dog needs space. Generally the instructor would point out the yellow ribbon dog to the rest of the class before commencing so that everyone was aware there was a dog that needed a wider berth. I've never had a problem Edited March 17, 2009 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 We take aggressive dogs at our school but they must firstly undergo a private session with myself or one of my other instructors before they come to class. This is so we can make an assessment as to the extent of the aggression, talk to the owner about leadership, critical distance and also implement various foundation exercises that will later become "alternative" behaviours for the dog. We discuss equipment, tactics and strategies during the 1:1 sessions. I leave them to work on the exercises for a week and then they commence in the classes. Once they commence in the classes, they are not positioned amongst the 'thick' of the class. Rather they continue to work on their foundation exercises at critical distance point. Instructors and floaters will check on them constantly. We monitor progress on a regular basis and make changes as we need to. We also run a "problem dogs' class once per month for those people with aggressive dogs. These classes have been extremely beneficial as we discuss each dog's critical distance, work on backaways, focus and show owners what to do if they end up too close and their dog reacts. These classes have been a very valuable part of the management strategy for aggressive dogs and we have seen some excellent improvement in both the dogs and the owner's confidence and handling. As long as you are being guided correctly by professionals and shown what to do each step of the way, there is nothing wrong with attending group classes with your aggressive dog. It is probably the only way you are able to train and work with your dog in a controlled environment, allowing you to re-socialise, desensitise and learn to manage the problem around what your dog has a problem with....other dogs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Western Suburbs is by far the smallest club I have gone to! Only one or two classes running on a Tuesday night, maybe 20 or so people, all of which are experienced people with controlled well behaved dogs. Manly and Districts was 4 or so classes running of around 10 people, and most people were pet people with exciteable 'friendly' dogs, Northern Suburbs was at least as big as Manly and Districts, if not bigger. I can't think of a club that is smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 Kelpie-i, I want to come and train at your club! Move to Sydney please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybeece Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I've been to 2 different schools, both quite similar. How do the trainers address the issue to avoid any situations occurring in class? They never did really I'd ask the instructor to let the whole class know whenever we started a new one, but it was never very well followed through with and new people joining the group later on generally missed out on being advised as well. Bit frustrating, but I made sure to fill people in. How big are the class sizes? Best ones I had were small (around 6 or less dogs) as it was less pressure on my dog and he'd get used to the dogs in class. Worst class was around 25 dogs and an instructor who believed I should just throw my dog into the throng when they were doing group socialising...yeah top idea that one! Is there a club policy on aggressive dogs? [bandanas, vests, etc.] No, but there should have been. Have you found it helpful for your dogs aggression to be around other dogs in a controlled environment? Yes and no. If I was able to work on him in our own time with a bit of space it worked really well. Unfortunately it's sometimes hard to control which dogs come near and it can be stressful and distracting constantly keeping watch over who's around. It's also frustrating dealing with instructors who think they know better or that you're doing everything all wrong, not to mention confusing if you think you're doing well doing things a certain way and they pick holes in it. That affected my confidence a fair bit. We don't go to obedience school anymore, but I'd like to try it again some time soon as the positives generally outweighted the negatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Paws Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Kelpie-i, I want to come and train at your club! Move to Sydney please :p me too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squeak Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Kelpie-i, I want to come and train at your club! Move to Sydney please :p me too Me three please!!! We went to one of your obedience classes as part of NDTF and I was very impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Kavik - you havent been to Peakhurst club then. Begginers classes never exceed 5 students per class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Kelpie-i, I want to come and train at your club! Move to Sydney please :p me too Me three please!!! We went to one of your obedience classes as part of NDTF and I was very impressed. Thank you guys. My sister lives in Sydney and she is always harping at me to move there...but I love Melbourne too much ;) It's only a 10 or so hour drive each week (oh and back again :p ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 Kelpie-i, I want to come and train at your club! Move to Sydney please ;) me too Me three please!!! We went to one of your obedience classes as part of NDTF and I was very impressed. Thank you guys. My sister lives in Sydney and she is always harping at me to move there...but I love Melbourne too much It's only a 10 or so hour drive each week :p (oh and back again :p ) So, it's doable, yeah? Just out of curiosity, what do you charge per class? PM me if you'd prefer. The clubs I go to are $3 p/class and a yearly fee of somewhere between $30 and $50 [can't remember]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Ruthless, I will PM you. We are not a volunteer based club, rather a 'private' school, therefore all of my instructors are paid for their time according to their experience level. Our fees are much higher than a volunteer club's fees unfortunately, but I like to believe our clients are getting their money's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Kelpie-i what an awesome looking dog school! Forget moving to Sydney, we need you in brisbane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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