Aubrey Won't Stop Barking At Kids

[SchnauzerBoy]

Our 19 month Miniature Schnauzer won't stop barking at kids. Last week she even tugged at the clothing of a 4 year old girl.

If she spots a child the other side of the park, she'll often run over and start barking and get closer and closer. She hasn't bitten anyone yet, but has gotten close enough to tug at clothes.

It seems to be children under 5 years old.

Even if she hears them on TV she'll start barking.

Not sure what is causing it, might be the school playgrounds which is behind and to the left of our back yard (she cannot see the kids, just hears them at playtime), and as far as we know she wasn't treated badly as a pup, and came from a breeder with kids.

It is getting to a point now that we can't invite our friends over as they all have small children, and whilst we won't leave Aubrey with kids unattended, even when she is near the kids and we are there, she'll carry on barking.

No amount of telling her no, seperating her etc is working.

We are inviting one of our friends over next week who has a 4 year old to try and do some training, just open palm feeding etc so she learns that to associate kids with good feelings (and yummy roast chicken), but what else can we do? The kid is good enough to know to be calm, won't run around or cry and even tells Aubrey to sit.

We don't want her ending up on a news site as another dog attack and we want to invite our friends over for BBQs!

Thanks

[Aidan]

It's good that you are taking this seriously and being responsible about it

I would recommend you see a trainer or behaviourist who understands classical conditioning. What you are attempting is the right idea, but the child doesn't need to be giving the food to achieve this. For reasons of safety I would begin with something simpler, and with more distance between the child and the dog. You will also need to address all stimuli that are associated with this behaviour, such as sound, movement, appearance etc

You have mentioned that your dog will bark at the sound of children on TV. To acquaint yourself with the process better it would be a good exercise to start with a recording of the sound of children, something that will elicit barking. Start with a low-level stimulus, turn the sound down, play a brief moment of the sound and give a treat. Repeat until the stimulus elicits food seeking, then turn the sound up a little.

Through this process of systematic desensitisation you will develop a deeper insight into what you are looking for and how to achieve it.

Consider that a professional should be able to offer you more certainty and make the process easier for you with their experience and insight. Even if you can do the job on your own it would be good to get peace of mind that someone with experience and knowledge has assessed the situation for you.

Edited October 29, 2009 by Aidan

[Erny]

I agree with Aidan. I don't recommend children being used 'close up' to assist in rehabilitation of problematic dog behaviour - especially (but not only) when the children are the central focus of that problematic behaviour in the first place. Apart from things having the potential to go wrong (a higher risk if you're not aware of exactly what you are doing), children can become traumatised by the dog's responses as well (even if it is not accompanied by physical connection). So you don't want to risk creating a fear in one (especially a child) for the sake of fixing a fear in the other ..... that's if it did fix it and didn't make it worse.

I too think it is great that you have recognised there is a problem before it has escalated beyond where it is, and are seeking to take steps to help your dog work through and over it .

Edited October 29, 2009 by Erny

[Nekhbet]

You have mentioned that your dog will bark at the sound of children on TV. To acquaint yourself with the process better it would be a good exercise to start with a recording of the sound of children, something that will elicit barking. Start with a low-level stimulus, turn the sound down, play a brief moment of the sound and give a treat. Repeat until the stimulus elicits food seeking, then turn the sound up a little.

Aiden if there is a playground behind the owner cannot control what happens when he is not there.

I feel it is prey driven, he cant see the kids but he can hear them and BOY are they exciting!!! Barriers build frustration which in turn builds the behavior. Yes you need to start at long distances but to decrease drive you need to introduce some corrections - I would chuck the food unless the food drive overrides the prey drive and anxiety in the dog already.

Correction, redirection of focus and big rewards for IGNORING kids and teaching your dog that hey, they exist, they make noises but they're really nothing to worry about is the way to go. And for guarenteed compliance I use corrections to shut that dog down before it heads into pfffffft BANG territory.

As you are in SA try Mark Singer for a consult. Its something that can be fixed, my own dog had a similar problem after some kids kept climbing my fence and throwing rocks and bottles at her.

[Aidan]

You have mentioned that your dog will bark at the sound of children on TV. To acquaint yourself with the process better it would be a good exercise to start with a recording of the sound of children, something that will elicit barking. Start with a low-level stimulus, turn the sound down, play a brief moment of the sound and give a treat. Repeat until the stimulus elicits food seeking, then turn the sound up a little.

Aiden if there is a playground behind the owner cannot control what happens when he is not there.

That won't matter for the purpose of the exercise I suggested.

[poodlefan]

You've got some good advice here. I'd be seeking professional help ASAP.

Was Aubrey socialised with young children?

I would not be allowing her offlead until this matter is resolved. She's doing enough already to get herself declared as a Dangerous Dog if a parent takes issue with her behaviour.

There is no way I'd be using a young child as a training tool in the manner you're suggesting. Children are unpredictable and this could end in tears. Crate Aubrey and lock her away when you have young children visiting.

Edited October 29, 2009 by poodlefan

[Aubrey]

Thanks for all of the advice guys!

For those that don't know I am SchnauzerBoy's OH.

We are going to seek a consult with Mark Singer for Aubrey.

Aubrey came to us at 13 weeks of age. She came from what we now think is a BYB. We bought Aubrey before we found DOL and were educated about BYB.

We know that the owner where Aubrey was born has a least one small child an we think that she may have received some trauma of some kind there. The first day I took Aubrey out after her immunisation we encountered a small child in the park. Aubrey immediately started to bark and the child began shrieking which only made matter worse - the child's grandparent said that the child was afraid of all dogs...so this was not a good beginning.

We do not crate train so locking Aubrey away in a crate when kids come to our place is not an option, plus we don't want to have to lock her away - it is her house. We want Aubrey to be able to interact in an appropriate manner with kids in our home.

Hopefully Mark will be able to offer us some help and get this problem sorted out.

I will let you know how we get on.

Thanks again

Edited October 30, 2009 by Aubrey

[poodlefan]

We do not crate train so locking Aubrey away in a crate when kids come to our place is not an option, plus we don't want to have to lock her away - it is her house. We want Aubrey to be able to interact in an appropriate manner with kids in our home.

Thanks again

What you want and what may be possible could be different. Until you get professional help I urge you keep Aubrey away from young children, in your home or elsewhere. That's for her benefit as well as the kids.

[Aubrey]

We do not crate train so locking Aubrey away in a crate when kids come to our place is not an option, plus we don't want to have to lock her away - it is her house. We want Aubrey to be able to interact in an appropriate manner with kids in our home.

Thanks again

What you want and what may be possible could be different. Until you get professional help I urge you keep Aubrey away from young children, in your home or elsewhere. That's for her benefit as well as the kids.

That's why we are getting some professional help for her and why we asked that our friend not bring their child over to our house. The friend actually took offence to this which has been quite distressing also.

If she can not be helped then yes, she may have to be segragated when kids come over - just hope it doesn't come this this.

[sheena]

Thanks for all of the advice guys! :D

For those that don't know I am SchnauzerBoy's OH.

We are going to seek a consult with Mark Singer for Aubrey.

Aubrey came to us at 13 weeks of age. She came from what we now think is a BYB. We bought Aubrey before we found DOL and were educated about BYB.

We know that the owner where Aubrey was born has a least one small child an we think that she may have received some trauma of some kind there. The first day I took Aubrey out after her immunisation we encountered a small child in the park. Aubrey immediately started to bark and the child began shrieking which only made matter worse - the child's grandparent said that the child was afraid of all dogs...so this was not a good beginning.

We do not crate train so locking Aubrey away in a crate when kids come to our place is not an option, plus we don't want to have to lock her away - it is her house. We want Aubrey to be able to interact in an appropriate manner with kids in our home.

Hopefully Mark will be able to offer us some help and get this problem sorted out.

I will let you know how we get on.

Thanks again

I would try taking her on a lead to where she may encounter this situation...or even better ...set up the situation, but make sure the child is completely safe (ie. on the other side of a fence) Have with you a bag of yummy treats & in the other hand have one of those handy water bottle squirters. Be ready & anticipate as a second later for you to act & it is too late. When she starts to react...squirt her on the head with the bottle. If she has any brains, she will soon cotton on to the connection with her reaction to the childs noise & being unpleasantly squirted. When she is good & doesn't react, be alert & ready with the treat & praise.

I used this method with my border collie who would go beserk & lunge at any little dog which barked at her, or children on skateboards etc. It worked even though she just loves water & loves to have the hose squirted in her face

I think it is the sudden shock of it "oh dear, where did that come from " Now I can proudly take her anywhere with me, including dog trials, training & camping. If I think I might encounter a bad situation, I take along the bottle, but she only has to know it's there

Good luck

[Staranais]

We are going to seek a consult with Mark Singer for Aubrey.

Good luck - let us know how it goes! :D

[Aubrey]

We have a session booked with Mark Singer on Saturday. Will let you know how we get on. :p

[twodoggies2001]

Our 19 month Miniature Schnauzer won't stop barking at kids. Last week she even tugged at the clothing of a 4 year old girl.

If she spots a child the other side of the park, she'll often run over and start barking and get closer and closer. She hasn't bitten anyone yet, but has gotten close enough to tug at clothes.

It seems to be children under 5 years old.

Even if she hears them on TV she'll start barking.

Not sure what is causing it, might be the school playgrounds which is behind and to the left of our back yard (she cannot see the kids, just hears them at playtime), and as far as we know she wasn't treated badly as a pup, and came from a breeder with kids.

It is getting to a point now that we can't invite our friends over as they all have small children, and whilst we won't leave Aubrey with kids unattended, even when she is near the kids and we are there, she'll carry on barking.

No amount of telling her no, seperating her etc is working.

We are inviting one of our friends over next week who has a 4 year old to try and do some training, just open palm feeding etc so she learns that to associate kids with good feelings (and yummy roast chicken), but what else can we do? The kid is good enough to know to be calm, won't run around or cry and even tells Aubrey to sit.

We don't want her ending up on a news site as another dog attack and we want to invite our friends over for BBQs!

Thanks

We have two mini schnauzers, one 12 yrs old and the other 2 yrs old. The younger boy also barks at small kids, but I have now taken to saying, before he even thinks about it 'no bark' and he doesn't. There are times that I feel he would, if I didn't give the command, but there are other times that he just ignores the kids and walks by them. The funny thing is that I have 4 grandchildren, all toddlers, and he used to bark at them too, but now he seems to have gotten used to the idea of having them around. I think it just takes time for them to mature and realise that the kids are AOK, and he enjoys playing with them when they come to visit.