Guest RosieFT Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Hi Rosie, good to see you at the specialists. Dr Gibson was great. We did some up and downs and circles in the carpark :laugh: Need to start saving hey. Im still going through all the technical surgical jargon Yes, small world! LOL.. I bet your up and downs and circles were a little more controlled than Rosies..... Now where was that money tree i planted..... I was very happy with the service provided, and so happy to get an answer. I got him to write it down so I didn't forget LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Sounds very much like Kenz . And yep I also know about the not actually sore and no appreciable front end lameness. Grade 2 luxations are borderline and Kenz only ended up having surgery because it deteriorated over a relatively short period of time. Edited June 7, 2012 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RosieFT Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Rosie not on crate rest and is allowed 15mins onleash walking a day. Still trying to work out how i will contain her .. not sure if she will try jump out if i fence off a bit of backyard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RosieFT Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Sounds very much like Kenz . And yep I also know about the not actually sore and no appreciable front end lameness. Grade 2 luxations are borderline and Kenz only ended up having surgery because it deteriorated over a relatively short period of time. Which is why i took so long to see someone about it! Everytime I asked people if they thought Rosie was sore, they would say 'no!' . Very annoying, but we got an answer in the end. I also took a video of when she WAS sore after mother's day that I could show him. I am not planning on doing any dog sports with rosie now though, you are with Kenz aren't you? I just want a pet that is not in pain. which part of Kenz shoulder is injured? Edited June 7, 2012 by RosieFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Yep that is effectively what Kenz lived on for a lot of last year when she was "restricted" she was normally allowed two 10-15 min leash walks a day. When I was in a compliant stage . Edited June 7, 2012 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RosieFT Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 This is just for 4-6 weeks in conjuction with the anti inflam to give things a chance to settle down after her week long acute stage after mother's day. Then i take her back for another assessment and hopefully move on from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Yes I am still wanting to compete with her as long as the specialist is happy. He agreed when I first took her to him that if he was just a pet then we would do nothing so I do understand where your coming from with your decision. It might also be worth asking about using Tramadol to control the pain when its bad. Kenz's specialist when we discussed the front end intermittent problems just before her surgery said it might be manageable using that when needed. Apparently its not a long acting thing like an anti-inflam but can be used to control pain. Kenz as best they can determine has damaged ligaments that in a human would be equivalent of a damaged rotator cuff injury. Her shoulder had some slight instability which seems to have stabilised to some extent with the rest/conservative management. She also has shown evidence of having biceps tendonitis. It was inconclusive as to whether that is the entire story behind what is happening in there other than she has had a slight palpatable pain response to her bicep tendon. The PRP injection was directly into the bicep though to settle down inflammation there. He did also inject a little more around the area just to make sure he covered all bases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Yep Kenz's restricted exercise was normally 4-6 weeks but whenever we tried to ramp things back up again we then ran into problems which saw the cycle repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RosieFT Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 ah ok, thanks for the info re tramadol. Rosie has no bicep pain. Just a lack of certain flexibility in one direction and too much in another! Might have to move to a house with no retaining wall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncarter Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Cortisone injection - requires 6-8 weeks strict crate rest as well . ETA. Nic what was the verdict on yours???? He said the tendons/ligaments connecting the patella to the tibia are misaligned and pulling the patella out of place medially. One knee is grade 2 and the other grade 3. I would need the tibial tuberosity relocation and lateral capsular imbrication surgery (which i think is basically re-alligning the joint and then stabilising it) but its not urgent he says as he couldnt see a disability when walking and mont has learnt to cope with it. This is a bit different to the other vet saying both knees were grade 3 and he needed deepening trocheoplasty ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Ah fair enough - Kenz's bicep pain was inconsistent and the ultrasound inconclusive but the second specialist felt there was some evidence on the ultrasound of biceps tendonitis. Agree those the lifestyle changes are the hard bits. I suspect that is more the issue then the walking. If you don't control them the entire time and limit them then 15 minutes of leash walking and being under control when they spend the other 99% of the time doing things which could potentially reinjure is a little counter productive. I guess thats why for proper conservative management and to allow inflammation to subside they really do need strict rest. I am going to be interested to see how Kenz's shoulder fairs with having spent 6 weeks on crate rest. She has had best done 3 weeks strict rest for the shoulder. I didn't see any point in the 6-8 weeks because she was still showing evidence of being sore and it seemed to be worse. A little different when you know you have to because the dog has had surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Glad you got some reasonable advice Nic. Plenty of small dogs have patella issues and cope fine for life . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Sorry to hear about Rosie But at the same time, glad you finally have an answer! Hugs to her, hope this rest period does her good :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncarter Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Glad you got some reasonable advice Nic. Plenty of small dogs have patella issues and cope fine for life . Thanks, hey do you know a good source for technical information relation to knee surgery in dogs? I want to at least get the worser knee done this year and maybe see how the grade 2 one goes long term. I think this surgery is a fair bit more complicated than just having the trocheal deepening surgery so not sure whether to have it done at the specialist or my usual vet, i would definitely have it done at the specialist if the cost wasnt considerably more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Google would be my answer. Plenty of sites that explain the process. I would probably google MPL and TT. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20830449 http://www.animalmedcenter.com/faqs/category/management-of-medial-patella-luxation Edited June 7, 2012 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RosieFT Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Sorry to hear about Rosie But at the same time, glad you finally have an answer! Hugs to her, hope this rest period does her good :) Thanks RS :) and happy bday to the black ninja NCarter - glad you got some good advice. I think I was told the same thing re Rosie's knees... have to cut a flap of bone and move the ligament across??? was that it? Not sure on the technical jargon on that one! Better start a patella fund going in case they suddenly need surgery ASAP. Don't like the sound of 12 weeks recovery for each one though. Be great to do both at same time and wheel the dog around for awhile :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RosieFT Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Ah fair enough - Kenz's bicep pain was inconsistent and the ultrasound inconclusive but the second specialist felt there was some evidence on the ultrasound of biceps tendonitis. Agree those the lifestyle changes are the hard bits. I suspect that is more the issue then the walking. If you don't control them the entire time and limit them then 15 minutes of leash walking and being under control when they spend the other 99% of the time doing things which could potentially reinjure is a little counter productive. I guess thats why for proper conservative management and to allow inflammation to subside they really do need strict rest. I am going to be interested to see how Kenz's shoulder fairs with having spent 6 weeks on crate rest. She has had best done 3 weeks strict rest for the shoulder. I didn't see any point in the 6-8 weeks because she was still showing evidence of being sore and it seemed to be worse. A little different when you know you have to because the dog has had surgery. It will be interesting to see how much the rest helps her. From my understanding, nothing can help the ligaments mend and it will be a matter of if and when she damages it further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) God 12 weeks would be great. Kenz's specialist has told me 4 months to get her back to full activity although I think it will be longer since he wants 6 weeks crate rest before we start. They build up scar tissue which helps stabilise the shoulder but its not as strong as the original ligament. Edited June 7, 2012 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncarter Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) NCarter - glad you got some good advice. I think I was told the same thing re Rosie's knees... have to cut a flap of bone and move the ligament across??? was that it? Not sure on the technical jargon on that one! Better start a patella fund going in case they suddenly need surgery ASAP. Don't like the sound of 12 weeks recovery for each one though. Be great to do both at same time and wheel the dog around for awhile :laugh: yeh i think they cut a wedge of bone under the patella ligamant and then move the bone and ligament across and attach it in the correct position. Ive heard some people doing the surgery on both legs at once on small dogs which i would of prefered to do except I dont think the dog could walk at all afterwards which makes recovery harder. And not very nice for the dog if you cant be there when they need toilet and they just have to go themselves when they are lying in a crate. Edited June 7, 2012 by ncarter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RosieFT Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 yes, that is the one. I don't think you could do both at once. I am certainly learning alot about shoulders in dogs now! Hey Ness have you seen the treatment using radiofrequency? RF as mentioned here http://www.vetsportsmedicine.com/resourceCenter/documents/VOSMNwstrFallFINAL11.20.08.pdf Keep finding abstracts of articles but cannot get the full journal article. Will see if my husband can get them from the Vet school where he works :-) . Interesting, if nothing else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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