Question For Owners Of Reactive Dogs

[poodlefan]

And names like Fatso, Wombat and Slug could be emotionally very damaging so have made a mental note to use their full registered names when calling them next time.

[spoilt lab lives here]

My partners GSD is a reactive dog. To me she is un-predictable! She has let some people be near her and others she has snapped at. She will bark at some dogs/people and not others. Yesterday she was pacing around the backyard on guard, very alert and unsettled. She barks at other dogs who are 3-4 hourses away barking even though she cant see them! It annoys the crap out of me.

[Souff]

My partners GSD is a reactive dog. To me she is un-predictable! She has let some people be near her and others she has snapped at. She will bark at some dogs/people and not others. Yesterday she was pacing around the backyard on guard, very alert and unsettled. She barks at other dogs who are 3-4 hourses away barking even though she cant see them! It annoys the crap out of me.

Highly intuitive dog that. You need to see things through her eyes. The full moon is hanging around too.

For more of this you can go to Souff the Psychic's Hotline and pay 55c per minute to hear more mumbo-jumbo just like some others do almost every day of their lives

[Souff]

And names like Fatso, Wombat and Slug could be emotionally very damaging so have made a mental note to use their full registered names when calling them next time.

[malsrock]

Talk to any reputable security/PP/police dog trainer and they will tell you there is a HUGE difference between fear based aggression and the kind of confident aggression that you should see exhibited in a working dog. The two are poles apart and it quite honestly scares me to think you consider them the same thing

Well, some might tell you that, but are they right? A presumably reputable police dog trainer recently told me that the aim in proofing was to trigger the dog into defence or fight drive, whatever you want to call it. I gathered it was a nice way of saying "the dog should be seriously concerned for its wellbeing", because in the line of duty that's exactly what may happen, and they have to know the dog will react in the way that they need it to react. I think we have to be careful not to mix up the emotion behind a behaviour and how the dog reacts to it. Erik is a moderately proactive dog, so when he feels a little pressured he may well behave aggressively, whereas Kivi might feel the same level of pressure and do nothing. That reaction is obviously wildly different between both dogs, but how do we know it's not driven by the same emotional disturbance in both dogs?

Incidentally, I'm sure it was a Ted Turner dvd I was watching that had a nice little flow chart including states that led to aggression. Frustration and rage where in there, I believe. Neither of those are fear-based.

Training in defence drive is exactly that Corvus, the dog is pressured to fight for it's life basically and gains the courage to engage and fight learned by winning which consequently releasing the pressure that has been applied to the dog. The difference is, a truly fearful dog will retreat under pressure and a courageous dog won't, but they both display aggressive reactions that are fear based. Are they both fear aggressive, or is it only the dog that retreats under pressure considered fear aggressive???

[corvus]

Are they both fear aggressive, or is it only the dog that retreats under pressure considered fear aggressive???

Exactly! Although technically only the one that behaves aggressively could be fear-aggressive. If fear-aggressive even exists. I learnt "Repulse Monkey" moves in Tai Chi last night. It's kind of offensive retreat. Seems a bit fear-aggressive to me.

[ChristineX]

An encouraging post for owners of (over)reactive dogs - a lady at training last night who hasn't been for 2 years and thus saw duke at his worst - made time to come and talk to me about how much he had improved - that his barking didn't have that 'frantic' quality about it anymore, and even his whinging was nowhere near as 'distressed' as it used to be!

Yes!! its not my imagination that he has improved!!

We can improve our problem kids!

(yes, it is an ongoing process, and we haven't stopped yet)

ChristineX

[DerRottweiler]

Talk to any reputable security/PP/police dog trainer and they will tell you there is a HUGE difference between fear based aggression and the kind of confident aggression that you should see exhibited in a working dog. The two are poles apart and it quite honestly scares me to think you consider them the same thing

Well, some might tell you that, but are they right? A presumably reputable police dog trainer recently told me that the aim in proofing was to trigger the dog into defence or fight drive, whatever you want to call it. I gathered it was a nice way of saying "the dog should be seriously concerned for its wellbeing", because in the line of duty that's exactly what may happen, and they have to know the dog will react in the way that they need it to react. I think we have to be careful not to mix up the emotion behind a behaviour and how the dog reacts to it. Erik is a moderately proactive dog, so when he feels a little pressured he may well behave aggressively, whereas Kivi might feel the same level of pressure and do nothing. That reaction is obviously wildly different between both dogs, but how do we know it's not driven by the same emotional disturbance in both dogs?

Incidentally, I'm sure it was a Ted Turner dvd I was watching that had a nice little flow chart including states that led to aggression. Frustration and rage where in there, I believe. Neither of those are fear-based.

Training in defence drive is exactly that Corvus, the dog is pressured to fight for it's life basically and gains the courage to engage and fight learned by winning which consequently releasing the pressure that has been applied to the dog. The difference is, a truly fearful dog will retreat under pressure and a courageous dog won't, but they both display aggressive reactions that are fear based. Are they both fear aggressive, or is it only the dog that retreats under pressure considered fear aggressive???

This isn't always the case though.

Some dogs just think 'who are you to even try and scare me, I'm not scared of you, i'll kill you.'

[malsrock]

Talk to any reputable security/PP/police dog trainer and they will tell you there is a HUGE difference between fear based aggression and the kind of confident aggression that you should see exhibited in a working dog. The two are poles apart and it quite honestly scares me to think you consider them the same thing

Well, some might tell you that, but are they right? A presumably reputable police dog trainer recently told me that the aim in proofing was to trigger the dog into defence or fight drive, whatever you want to call it. I gathered it was a nice way of saying "the dog should be seriously concerned for its wellbeing", because in the line of duty that's exactly what may happen, and they have to know the dog will react in the way that they need it to react. I think we have to be careful not to mix up the emotion behind a behaviour and how the dog reacts to it. Erik is a moderately proactive dog, so when he feels a little pressured he may well behave aggressively, whereas Kivi might feel the same level of pressure and do nothing. That reaction is obviously wildly different between both dogs, but how do we know it's not driven by the same emotional disturbance in both dogs?

Incidentally, I'm sure it was a Ted Turner dvd I was watching that had a nice little flow chart including states that led to aggression. Frustration and rage where in there, I believe. Neither of those are fear-based.

Training in defence drive is exactly that Corvus, the dog is pressured to fight for it's life basically and gains the courage to engage and fight learned by winning which consequently releasing the pressure that has been applied to the dog. The difference is, a truly fearful dog will retreat under pressure and a courageous dog won't, but they both display aggressive reactions that are fear based. Are they both fear aggressive, or is it only the dog that retreats under pressure considered fear aggressive???

This isn't always the case though.

Some dogs just think 'who are you to even try and scare me, I'm not scared of you, i'll kill you.'

But what is driving that emotion DerRottweiler???. Is it civil aggression, social dominance, fear based defence aggression or sharpness???.

Fiona

[Lady Flying Furball]

Hi Corvus, I have a reactive dog, only one I've ever had and it's quite an experience and steep learning curve

I know what sets off her reactivity (many things)

In my experience you predict correctly, same behaviour, more intense closer to the trigger.xxx

I am the same as Monah (too lazy to type). only difference to the above is it is generally other dogs on the street rather than many things as the trigger. I am stumped, tried many things, spent lots of money.

[Lady Flying Furball]

They certainly do switch from fear to attack, but the fear is still there along with the aggression.

I agree, if you could monitor the heart of a dog that attacked because of fear, you would find them pounding. Adrenalin does not get rid of the fear.

More labels = more complexities.

Dogs do not need extra labels in today's dog-phobic society - it is up to us as owners to KNOW and MANAGE our dogs with as few labels as possible.

Souff

I'm sure we would all love to go with simple if it were possible. By naming things, seeking to label things, we are trying to work out the process happening with our dogs. Frankly, it is up to us to know and manage our dogs BUT imagine if you couldn't work out how to manage behaviour...complex!

[DerRottweiler]

Talk to any reputable security/PP/police dog trainer and they will tell you there is a HUGE difference between fear based aggression and the kind of confident aggression that you should see exhibited in a working dog. The two are poles apart and it quite honestly scares me to think you consider them the same thing

Well, some might tell you that, but are they right? A presumably reputable police dog trainer recently told me that the aim in proofing was to trigger the dog into defence or fight drive, whatever you want to call it. I gathered it was a nice way of saying "the dog should be seriously concerned for its wellbeing", because in the line of duty that's exactly what may happen, and they have to know the dog will react in the way that they need it to react. I think we have to be careful not to mix up the emotion behind a behaviour and how the dog reacts to it. Erik is a moderately proactive dog, so when he feels a little pressured he may well behave aggressively, whereas Kivi might feel the same level of pressure and do nothing. That reaction is obviously wildly different between both dogs, but how do we know it's not driven by the same emotional disturbance in both dogs?

Incidentally, I'm sure it was a Ted Turner dvd I was watching that had a nice little flow chart including states that led to aggression. Frustration and rage where in there, I believe. Neither of those are fear-based.

Training in defence drive is exactly that Corvus, the dog is pressured to fight for it's life basically and gains the courage to engage and fight learned by winning which consequently releasing the pressure that has been applied to the dog. The difference is, a truly fearful dog will retreat under pressure and a courageous dog won't, but they both display aggressive reactions that are fear based. Are they both fear aggressive, or is it only the dog that retreats under pressure considered fear aggressive???

This isn't always the case though.

Some dogs just think 'who are you to even try and scare me, I'm not scared of you, i'll kill you.'

But what is driving that emotion DerRottweiler???. Is it civil aggression, social dominance, fear based defence aggression or sharpness???.

Fiona

It could be either of those things Fiona, my point was, it isn't always 'fear' as such.

I know some dogs that are just mean, they will engage an agitator, because he is 'annoying' or 'challenging' them. Not because they are scared and must protect themselves (although most dogs I've seen would initially act out of fear). It makes for a very interesting topic.