Situation I Need Help With...

[W Sibs]

Next door neighbour is looking after their friend's 4 years old, not socialise, Shih Tzu. From what I can see, the dog has DA and if not, if something is not done with his behaviour soon, it will lead to that. Barks, snarls and snaps very aggressively towards other dogs (how my neighbour can say that he is a very placid, gentle and sweet dog... I don't know!)

Charlie, Emmy and I were in the front yard hanging out and neighbour comes with the dog. the dog see Charlie and starts going absolutely insane with barking and lunging towards Charlie. Charlie sits down and ignore the Shih Tzu but turning his head away from the dog but he doesn't move away. Then comes Miss Emmy from the other side of the yard (she did not notice the Shih Tzu at first), stops and watches to see what's going on (I was actually proud of her that she didn't come running barking). Charlie gets up and Shih Tzu again lunges towards Charlie and Emmy (who is a pocket rocket) launches towards the Shih Tzu growling but I managed to grab her leash before she got to the dog. I told her no and took her away from that situation. (Not sure if she was looking after Charlie or she was reacting to that dog's energy.. what do you guys think?)

Now my neighbours wants the dogs to play together and that the Shih Tzu makes friends. I'm not quite sure how to go about it.

We tried to go for a walk together (just Charlie, Emmy stayed at home). Charlie wants nothing to do with the Shih Tzu. At all. He didn't even want to go for a walk at all.

Shih Tzu is too much for Charlie. But, the Shih Tzu is warming up to Charlie.

I'm keeping Emmy away from this dog. I don't want her to socialise with this dog. The Shih Tzu always looks like he wants to tear her apart every time he sees her and I know my little girl won't back down.

What will you guys do?

[poodlefan]

CW:

Now my neighbours wants the dogs to play together and that the Shih Tzu makes friends. I'm not quite sure how to go about it.

Say "no". Its plain that the Shih Tzu doesn't want to "make friends". Tell the neighbour that her dog is clearly not happy in the company of other dogs and that its up to the owner, not her, to get help to deal with it.

If the dog ends up biting another dog, it will be the neighbour that's liable if the dog is in her charge.

And tell her that taking it down the dog park is a really really bad idea - that may be in her thoughtss.

[W Sibs]

I haven't let my dogs near the Shih Tzu since the walk till i figure out what to do.

I want to help but I need to keep my 2 safe first.

[poodlefan]

I haven't let my dogs near the Shih Tzu since the walk till i figure out what to do.

I want to help but I need to keep my 2 safe first.

Its not the neighbours dog. I think she's being quite irresponsible even attempting to address this issue in a dog she doesn't own.

This is a job for professionals CW - your neighbour clearly has no idea about this behaviour and I'd not trust her to keep your dogs safe.

[cointreau]

Sounds like the owner of the dog and not your neighbour needs to get a professional trainer in and help sort the Shih Tzu's behaviour out.

[Alfie02]

Firstly, good on Charlie for being so calm in a stressful situation Thats a big thumbs up to your puppy raising!

If it were me, I would do what you are doing with Emmy, as she is younger and may not handle the situation as well as Charlie.

If your neighbour is genuinley trying to socialise the dog, maybe short walks together would be ok as long as there was no 'play' time. Just short walks with the dogs ignoring each other (ie no contact between the dogs)....but this is still very risky and its up to you if you want to take this risk. The last thing you would want is for your dogs saftey to be comprimised, or for him to have a bad experience and he would be wary of other dogs afterwards....

If your neighbour is just in it for the 'play' time and 'making friends', I would say no as they dont realise that the dog they have has a real problem......

Im no expert, that is probs just what I would do

[W Sibs]

I guess this is a situation where no one can really do anything.

Kind of sucks though... I really feel bad for the Shih Tzu

[corvus]

I would say no, too. Both my dogs are good about this kind of thing when it happens to us when we are out and about, but they still find it unsettling and I wouldn't deliberately expose them to it. Plus, it's not fair on the other dog. My OH's family has dogs that aren't entirely comfortable with our confident boys. They don't know what to do about them and so try to avoid them. The boys generally ignore them, but will sometimes try to interact with them and it is quite stressful for the poor things. They just don't know what to do. So now when we get asked to bring our dogs I say no. My dogs can deal, but it's not fair on their dogs. I would maybe agree if someone who knew what the hell they were doing was going to spend a bit of time with these dogs teaching them how to behave, but no one is, so the poor dogs just have to live in anxiety about it.

One time Kivi met an anti-social dog he seemed to know exactly what to do with and had this dog playing with him in a matter of minutes. It was good for him to have success with interacting with weird dogs, and good for the other dog to find that some dogs aren't so bad, but it's a drop in the ocean for a dog that doesn't have social skills. It took Kivi two years of daily mixing with other dogs to learn those skills when he had no former learning to overcome and his brain was primed for it. In my mind, there is nothing to be gained from letting them mix for ten minutes or so except to maybe add another odd experience to Kivi's repertoire, but he doesn't really need it. Erik is like Emmy and I've taken pains with him to make sure he doesn't need to get cranky. I think you did the right thing in keeping Emmy away from this dog. Fiesty little firecrackers don't need sparks in their lives! At least, not until they know quiet ways to deal with them.

[Remarkabull]

She is really playing with fire. While I understand your desire to help, it's not your problem and it's not hers either. She should keep the dog in her yard, walk it alone, on a lead and leave it to the owners to sort it out. Who knows, they may have told her that the dog is DA and she thinks because it's little what harm could it really do?

My sister looked after my DA dog overnight once. She knows Jazz hates other dogs and still took her for a walk OFF LEAD .

Sure enough a SWF comes along - also off lead - and they sniffed, little fluffer had a snap at Jazz and then Jazz attacked it.

I'm not sure what she didn't understand about me saying (and after years of knowing Jazz is a cranky bitch) that she WILL attack small dogs.

[W Sibs]

Firstly, good on Charlie for being so calm in a stressful situation Thats a big thumbs up to your puppy raising!

If it were me, I would do what you are doing with Emmy, as she is younger and may not handle the situation as well as Charlie.

If your neighbour is genuinley trying to socialise the dog, maybe short walks together would be ok as long as there was no 'play' time. Just short walks with the dogs ignoring each other (ie no contact between the dogs)....but this is still very risky and its up to you if you want to take this risk. The last thing you would want is for your dogs saftey to be comprimised, or for him to have a bad experience and he would be wary of other dogs afterwards....

If your neighbour is just in it for the 'play' time and 'making friends', I would say no as they dont realise that the dog they have has a real problem......

Im no expert, that is probs just what I would do

Charlie is a calm naturally and pretty much bomb proof. He is a Canine Good Citizen dog too

That's why we tried to go for a walk together. But, he seriously didn't want anything to do with this dog. I listened to him and cut the walk short and we went home.

I don't think I will force the issue.

You guys are right, no one can help this dog but the owner.

Edited November 19, 2010 by CW EW

[poodlefan]

I guess this is a situation where no one can really do anything.

Kind of sucks though... I really feel bad for the Shih Tzu

If they have the brains to stop trying to force him into "making friends" I'd not feel sorry for him at all. Some dogs don't give a damn about other dogs.

[W Sibs]

I would say no, too. Both my dogs are good about this kind of thing when it happens to us when we are out and about, but they still find it unsettling and I wouldn't deliberately expose them to it. Plus, it's not fair on the other dog. My OH's family has dogs that aren't entirely comfortable with our confident boys. They don't know what to do about them and so try to avoid them. The boys generally ignore them, but will sometimes try to interact with them and it is quite stressful for the poor things. They just don't know what to do. So now when we get asked to bring our dogs I say no. My dogs can deal, but it's not fair on their dogs. I would maybe agree if someone who knew what the hell they were doing was going to spend a bit of time with these dogs teaching them how to behave, but no one is, so the poor dogs just have to live in anxiety about it.

One time Kivi met an anti-social dog he seemed to know exactly what to do with and had this dog playing with him in a matter of minutes. It was good for him to have success with interacting with weird dogs, and good for the other dog to find that some dogs aren't so bad, but it's a drop in the ocean for a dog that doesn't have social skills. It took Kivi two years of daily mixing with other dogs to learn those skills when he had no former learning to overcome and his brain was primed for it. In my mind, there is nothing to be gained from letting them mix for ten minutes or so except to maybe add another odd experience to Kivi's repertoire, but he doesn't really need it. Erik is like Emmy and I've taken pains with him to make sure he doesn't need to get cranky. I think you did the right thing in keeping Emmy away from this dog. Fiesty little firecrackers don't need sparks in their lives! At least, not until they know quiet ways to deal with them.

Those poor dogs. So sad to see dogs that aren't stable... for me, it is anyway.

Yep. I worked really hard to get Emmy to be good around other people and dogs, and I don't want anything to damage the work!!

Should be interesting to see how Erik and Emmy would be like together.. now that she is older.

[W Sibs]

I guess this is a situation where no one can really do anything.

Kind of sucks though... I really feel bad for the Shih Tzu

If they have the brains to stop trying to force him into "making friends" I'd not feel sorry for him at all. Some dogs don't give a damn about other dogs.

I might mention that to my neighbours!

[Adza]

I've seen dogs out there who don't care much for other dogs but aren't aggressive about it, but the ones that are you should keep away from. I wouldn't be risking it the dog is that way for a reason who knows, up to the owners if they want to fix it

[poodlefan]

I guess this is a situation where no one can really do anything.

Kind of sucks though... I really feel bad for the Shih Tzu

If they have the brains to stop trying to force him into "making friends" I'd not feel sorry for him at all. Some dogs don't give a damn about other dogs.

I might mention that to my neighbours!

Classic example from the other night.. out at the club walking with FHRP and her tribe. Lady opens the gate and lets her Toy Poodle in (without asking of course) to the paddock in which we've got 3 big gundogs, 2 Whippets and my poodles because "she thought the poodles would play with her dog". After convincing Howie Whippet that even though the poodle ran madly in circles, it wasn't an invitation to chase it into the ground, two of my poodles looked at it like it was an alien and Darcy had a go at it (I'd picked him up initally then put him down but the dog rushed up to him)

My dogs have their 'friends' but other than Howie the Whippet, dont' give a toss about other dogs.

Edited November 19, 2010 by poodlefan

[Remarkabull]

I guess this is a situation where no one can really do anything.

Kind of sucks though... I really feel bad for the Shih Tzu

If they have the brains to stop trying to force him into "making friends" I'd not feel sorry for him at all. Some dogs don't give a damn about other dogs.

I might mention that to my neighbours!

Classic example from the other night.. out at the club walking with FHRP and her tribe. Lady opens the gate and lets her Toy Poodle in (without asking of course) to the paddock in which we've got 3 big gundogs, 2 Whippets and my poodles because "she thought the poodles would play with her dog". After convincing Howie Whippet that even though the poodle ran madly in circles, it wasn't an invitation to chase it into the ground, two of my poodles looked at it like it was an alien and Darcy had a go at it (I'd picked him up initally then put him down but the dog rushed up to him)

My dogs have their 'friends' but other than Howie the Whippet, dont' give a toss about other dogs.

Jazz (DA dog) is like that. She can stay at my sisters house with her 2 boxers and although she might growl at them (she growls at ALL dogs) there is no problems. My parents have a tiny Chi X and Jazz is also fine with her - in fact she 'guards' Ruby from the other dogs and tells them off if they go near her.

Jazz is my oldest dog so obviously we have introduced a number of dogs into the family despite her aggression, and they all get along pretty well. She seems to understand very quickly that the new puppy is part of the pack and although she is allowed to tell them off if they annoy her she knows she can't take it further than that and never has.

[sllebasi]

I agree with the others that it is the owners issue to deal with and if at 4 years of age, it hasnt been socialized properly, its probably not a good idea starting now with unfamiliar environment, handler and dogs.

[Greytmate]

I would say no.

I would also point out that it would not be a good idea to take that dog near any other dogs while she is minding it, because if there are any problems, her friends would be really angry with her.

Don't talk to her about how to train dogs, just scare her off the idea of taking the little dog near other dogs or people. Tell her that if the dog bites another dog or gets in a fight, she will get a large fine and the dog will be taken away by the council.

[Jed]

CW, what you do it up to you, they are your dogs, and they need to be safe.

It is possible, however, that the Shih Tzu is ok. He is with a strange person, in a strange place. He is on lead. Shih Tzus are a guarding breed, and he is on lead, which makes his instincts kick in more than usual.

The only way to have any sort of interaction with this dog is with him off lead, and I would suggest that he will not behave his best in a strange place, with strange people. But it is doomed to disaster if he is on lead.

I have no idea what his body language is saying - maybe he is ok, maybe not, and if you can't tell for sure, make sure your kids are safe. Shih Tzu might be barking his head off, but it's all talk.

If you do want some interaction, sit down, hold your dogs on your lap and let the Shih Tzu run free to see what happens. Shih Tzu's are not particularly aggressive, but I am sure you can push him off if he proves me wrong and wants to rip out the throat of one of your dogs. But I think he wants to be friends. Being on a lead when meeting other dogs has a whole lot of connotations to a dog - and laugh though you may, Shih Tzu's ARE guard dogs, so they would resent it more than a toy breed, or a retriever.

But it is your call - you have to do what you are comfortable with.

[corvus]

Those poor dogs. So sad to see dogs that aren't stable... for me, it is anyway.

It is sad to me as well, but on the other hand, they rarely have to deal with dogs like mine and as long as they don't they are relatively at ease with the world. Just sad that they are so at a loss when a dog behaving normally comes along.

Yep. I worked really hard to get Emmy to be good around other people and dogs, and I don't want anything to damage the work!!

Should be interesting to see how Erik and Emmy would be like together.. now that she is older.

Erik met three different JS last time and they all told him to get lost. That's the magic number! He learnt that JS are meanies and he doesn't like them. I expect he would try again anyway and he defaults to nice, gentle greetings, but every bad experience on top of those first three is just going to remind him that he doesn't like them. We haveta be super careful.