Online Puppy Sales

[WreckitWhippet]

All well and good except that the RSPCA want to shut the lot of us down, not just those farming puppies... but I guess that doesn't matter, as long as the puppy farms are gone right ?

ETA: they'll just blindly sign whatever the RSPCA sticks infront of their noses.

I'm a newbie here, but could someone explain to me how the RSPCA could possibly shut down a reputable ethical breeder? They can only take action on the basis of animal cruelty, they have no other legal avenues, and if you are an ethical, responsible breeder, you surely have nothing to fear? If the RSPCA has shown an interst in your operation, they could only do so if they had reason to do so???? What would that be?

Do a search on the forum of RSPCA, some other things you might like to check out are Judy Gard and Rozzie

If the RSCPA wants to shut me down as a breeder, they can do so in a heart beat, regarldless of how I treat my dogs. Simple things like not vaccinating yearly, treating certain conditions at home rather than using a vet, raising puppies in the loungeroom, having a docked dog in the house, having a debarked dog in the house.

They don't need a reason and many breeders live in fear of them rocking up on the doorstep, seizing first and asking questions later.

It's not just breeders their actions will put an end to but independent rescue's as well.

[raz]

Okay, I see the danger, sure - but why don't we (the reputable breeders, the canine councils) have ads up there instead extolling the virtues of supporting reputable breeders? We don't. All we can manage is to talk about it amongst ourselves and while I know "ourselves" on DOL includes many non-breeders and dog-loving members of the general public there are still many more who don't know DOL exists and so therefore don't have the benefit of our "in-house" discussions.

Members of CCs have been screaming for this for years. CCs do nothing about it.

[Are You Serious Jo]

Don't worry, I am pretty annoyed that the canine councils are not doing anything. I don't understand why they aren't being far more proactive either.

Registered breeders are being forced out of existence by making it too hard for them to continue. Hobbyists can't compete with big business, they just don't have the money.

[The Ark]

So how do we, the members, regain control of the bodies who are supposed to do this stuff for us?

[raz]

So how do we, the members, regain control of the bodies who are supposed to do this stuff for us?

There are quite a few threads on just that running at the moment.

[The Ark]

So how do we, the members, regain control of the bodies who are supposed to do this stuff for us?

There are quite a few threads on just that running at the moment.

I know - I didn't really intend for this thread to rehash all of that. I just saw a little spark of "something happening" and decided to share....

[SpikesPuppy]

Since when is it illegal to have a debarked or docked dog in the house? I thought it was only illegal to have the animal docked or debarked illegally and/or exhibit a dog that has been docked or debarked illegally.

I only read the damn legislation last week!! Have they changed it again already??

ETA sorry, didnt mean to sound narky, just concerned I've missed something else

Edited November 30, 2010 by SpikesPuppy

[Are You Serious Jo]

In the big picture those ads are going to do more harm than good, so I can't see it as a good thing considering we know the new laws proposed.

[mita]

I'm happy to support the type of approach used in the government funded pilot program in the Gold Coast region. Which was devised via a round-table working party, which included Dogs Qld, RSPCA Qld, Council & State authorities & others... under chair of AWL Qld. Results are now in place in that area and the type of licensing links with point of sale.

The conditions for licensing provide general education, in themselves. Appears to have been received OK.

I notice the material re anti-puppy farming from the RSPCA Qld, basically echoes both the rationale & means from this pilot project. So it's fine by me.

(Especially how it refers people to fact that registered breeders already have a code of ethics set in place by their registering body. Whether someone adheres to them or not, is a reality. However, it'd be an excellent opportunity for Dogs Qld to direct public attention to just what those guidelines are. They're extremely good & would make a useful checklist for 'consumers'.)

Having read their material, I'm giving the RSPCA Qld feedback on caution re how puppy-farmers could find a hole thro' the system. By doing something that some presently do, in order to mask where the puppies actually come from.

Needs an investigative committee called 'Looking for Loopholes'.

[raz]

I know - I didn't really intend for this thread to rehash all of that. I just saw a little spark of "something happening" and decided to share....

It's good that it's rehashed. Good for you for getting another discussion happening on the issues currently facing the dog world

[The Ark]

I know - I didn't really intend for this thread to rehash all of that. I just saw a little spark of "something happening" and decided to share....

It's good that it's rehashed. Good for you for getting another discussion happening on the issues currently facing the dog world

Thanks raz - but yet again we're only talking amongst ourselves.

[raz]

Thanks raz - but yet again we're only talking amongst ourselves.

There are over 20,000 members here. We all individually talk to a lot of people. Word gets around.

[WreckitWhippet]

In the big picture those ads are going to do more harm than good, so I can't see it as a good thing considering we know the new laws proposed.

yep, new laws to give them powers where it comes to local plannig, where previously it was the domain of council

they'll be able to walk and and shut down every breeder that has a litter on their loungeroom floor

Spikes, nothing has changed but it's always been policy of the RSPCA to seize first and ask questions later when it suits them.

[The Ark]

Thanks raz - but yet again we're only talking amongst ourselves.

There are over 20,000 members here. We all individually talk to a lot of people. Word gets around.

Okay - let's all work on that then.

[poochmad]

I've had a look at the site and reviewed the content regarding 'what is a puppy farm/factory' and how to recognise one. Nowhere does it imply that normal breeders are mixed into this group, namely what you would expect to see regarding one of these places, i.e. dogs living in filth, dogs with medical problems, dogs exhibiting behavioural problems (twirling, agression, pacing, fear of humans, etc) dogs with atrocious coat and body conditions, dogs living in confined spaces and are either packed in with other dogs preventing the ability to move or are in too small a space for their size.

I would not regard a normal dog breeder who may or may not have multiple dogs (i.e. 20 or more) to be in the same category as a puppy farmer. The dogs that I have viewed when visiting these establishments have all been in excellent health, with great temperaments and are obviously well loved and cared for.

Also, I have never had a breeder tell me that I can't visit their home or show me the mother and or the father. Even showing other dogs is welcomed.

This is not something that puppy farmers do - either selling pups online or via pet shops - exactly as depicted on the website.

So in response to the actual topic about the puppy farming plight, I agree with what the RSPCA is doing.

[SpikesPuppy]

In the big picture those ads are going to do more harm than good, so I can't see it as a good thing considering we know the new laws proposed.

yep, new laws to give them powers where it comes to local plannig, where previously it was the domain of council

they'll be able to walk and and shut down every breeder that has a litter on their loungeroom floor

Spikes, nothing has changed but it's always been policy of the RSPCA to seize first and ask questions later when it suits them.

Yep, knew that was just wondering if I had missed something!!! Ta.

[raz]

I would not regard a normal dog breeder who may or may not have multiple dogs (i.e. 20 or more) to be in the same category as a puppy farmer.

Either do I but the average Joe doesnt. Ask someone who is not a member of dogzonline and who just wants a puppy what their idea of a puppy farm is (registered breeders), and where the puppy they buy from a petshop comes from (not a puppy farm). It really is very eye opening when you ask people.

[Are You Serious Jo]

If the rspca wasn't trying to gain even more power and license ALL breeders it would be fine, but look outside of that ad and think about the consequences of really tight restrictions on all breeders. That is what is will kill off registered breeders, not what you said was on the website. Look at consequences and chains of actions and think about it, I've spelled it out above.

[WreckitWhippet]

"With your signature of support we can approach the Government requesting to have the laws and regulations regulating puppy factories tightened, ultimately closing them down for good"

I can bet if you did a survey on the people who have signed this, very few of them would have any idea just what they have pledged to support and what the consequences are for the average ANKC or other registered breeder in this country.

[The Ark]

"With your signature of support we can approach the Government requesting to have the laws and regulations regulating puppy factories tightened, ultimately closing them down for good"

I can bet if you did a survey on the people who have signed this, very few of them would have any idea just what they have pledged to support and what the consequences are for the average ANKC or other registered breeder in this country.

So, once again, why aren't "we" (the registered breeders and other CC members) out there telling them the real facts instead? (And I know this is exactly what is being discussed elsewhere).