Retrieving & Field Training Talk

[FHRP]

Field trialling is very interesting, very much a test of a dogs ability and instinct as well as it's socialization.

What do you mean by this RallyValley? Because the dogs run in pairs they must be well socialised??? I think it's more a test of their temperament, a correctly bred Utility Gundog should not have any issues running with a bracemate. I doubt field dogs are socialised more than the average dog, or even as much quite often. You would be amazed how quickly dogs don't give a stuff about the other dog when it's time to find birds Polo has a very good temperament and is well socialised but I still watch him around other entrie males, I don't even give it a thought in the field (unless the other dog is iffy) 'cause he pays no attention to the dog apart from it's work. Polo was interested in romancing the Pointer bitch we've been running with lately, but again once in the paddock it's all about the birds.

[RallyValley]

Field trialling is very interesting, very much a test of a dogs ability and instinct as well as it's socialization.

What do you mean by this RallyValley? Because the dogs run in pairs they must be well socialised??? I think it's more a test of their temperament, a correctly bred Utility Gundog should not have any issues running with a bracemate. I doubt field dogs are socialised more than the average dog, or even as much quite often. You would be amazed how quickly dogs don't give a stuff about the other dog when it's time to find birds Polo has a very good temperament and is well socialised but I still watch him around other entrie males, I don't even give it a thought in the field (unless the other dog is iffy) 'cause he pays no attention to the dog apart from it's work. Polo was interested in romancing the Pointer bitch we've been running with lately, but again once in the paddock it's all about the birds.

Hmmm I will try to explain what I meant

From what I have heard from field triallers and read ability is trained, instinct is what the dog was born with and by socialization I meant what the dog learns by traning out in the field with a more mature bracemate, i.e imitating them. I hope that makes sense I am totally probably wrong but that was the impession I got.

I didn't mean socialization as in meeting a quota of people and dogs ect.

[FHRP]

OK, I think I get you now I don't think I agree, but as I'm a total novice to the sport, I don't feel qualified to comment

[Lablover]

Field trialling is very interesting, very much a test of a dogs ability and instinct as well as it's socialization.

What do you mean by this RallyValley? Because the dogs run in pairs they must be well socialised??? I think it's more a test of their temperament, a correctly bred Utility Gundog should not have any issues running with a bracemate. I doubt field dogs are socialised more than the average dog, or even as much quite often. You would be amazed how quickly dogs don't give a stuff about the other dog when it's time to find birds :D Polo has a very good temperament and is well socialised but I still watch him around other entrie males, I don't even give it a thought in the field (unless the other dog is iffy) 'cause he pays no attention to the dog apart from it's work. Polo was interested in romancing the Pointer bitch we've been running with lately, but again once in the paddock it's all about the birds.

Hmmm I will try to explain what I meant

From what I have heard from field triallers and read ability is trained, instinct is what the dog was born with and by socialization I meant what the dog learns by traning out in the field with a more mature bracemate, i.e imitating them. I hope that makes sense I am totally probably wrong but that was the impession I got.

I didn't mean socialization as in meeting a quota of people and dogs ect.

For retrieving breeds, what we call field trials, the US call upland tests.

US field trials, we call retrieving trials. America also have AKC hunt tests and NAHRA.

[RallyValley]

Field trialling is very interesting, very much a test of a dogs ability and instinct as well as it's socialization.

What do you mean by this RallyValley? Because the dogs run in pairs they must be well socialised??? I think it's more a test of their temperament, a correctly bred Utility Gundog should not have any issues running with a bracemate. I doubt field dogs are socialised more than the average dog, or even as much quite often. You would be amazed how quickly dogs don't give a stuff about the other dog when it's time to find birds :D Polo has a very good temperament and is well socialised but I still watch him around other entrie males, I don't even give it a thought in the field (unless the other dog is iffy) 'cause he pays no attention to the dog apart from it's work. Polo was interested in romancing the Pointer bitch we've been running with lately, but again once in the paddock it's all about the birds.

Hmmm I will try to explain what I meant

From what I have heard from field triallers and read ability is trained, instinct is what the dog was born with and by socialization I meant what the dog learns by traning out in the field with a more mature bracemate, i.e imitating them. I hope that makes sense I am totally probably wrong but that was the impession I got.

I didn't mean socialization as in meeting a quota of people and dogs ect.

For retrieving breeds, what we call field trials, the US call upland tests.

US field trials, we call retrieving trials. America also have AKC hunt tests and NAHRA.

I was reading the ABC hunt test rules and thier field trial rules. I am probably wrong FHRP, I know very very little about it all. :D Will be very interested to hear about Polo's forays in the field :D

[FHRP]

For retrieving breeds, what we call field trials, the US call upland tests.

US field trials, we call retrieving trials. America also have AKC hunt tests and NAHRA.

As RallyValley was referring to honouring points and bracemates, I assumed they were referring to Utility Gundog or Pointer field trials We have different types of field trials for the different types of gundogs, as they do in the USA. We are lucky in Australia that our Retrieving trials, which are similar to US Retriever field trials, are open to all gundogs.

[RallyValley]

Thats right FHRP I was refering to a 'Pointing Breeds Field Trial' An example of a 'Field Trial' class as explained from the American Brittany Club's info (these are usually run on horseback), in Australia Brittany's compete in a 'Utility Gundog Field Trial' which is quite similar but involves two retrieves :

All-Age Stake (Open and/or Amateur) for dogs 6 months of age and over. An All-Age

Dog must give a finished performance and must be under reasonable control of its

handler. It must show a keen desire to hunt, must have a bold and attractive style of

running, and must show independence in hunting. It must range well out in a forward

moving pattern, seeking the most promising objectives, so as to locate any game on

the course. Excessive line-casting and avoiding cover must be penalized. The dog must

respond to handling but must demonstrate its independent judgment in hunting the

course, and should not look to its handler for directions as to where to go. The dog

must find game, must point staunchly, and must be steady to wing and shot. Intelligent

use of the wind and terrain in locating game, accurate nose, and style and intensity on

point, are essential. A dog that does not point cannot be placed. A dog encountering its

bracemate on point must honor. Failure of a dog to honor when it sees its bracemate on

point must be severely penalized, and the intentional avoidance by a dog or a handler of

an honoring situation must also be severely penalized. A dog that steals its bracemate’s

point must be ordered up by the Judges. A reasonable move of a dog to mark a bird

flushed after a point is acceptable, but this shall not excuse a break or a delayed chase.

At least 30 minutes shall be allowed for each brace.

Edited March 17, 2011 by RallyValley

[FHRP]

Maybe we're hijacking the thread RallyValley, better get back to Retrieving talk..... although, it does boggle my mind that in the US the dogs don't flush the birds, but the handlers do! They're doing half the dogs work! Anyway, ahem, back to retrieving!!!

[RallyValley]

Maybe we're hijacking the thread RallyValley, better get back to Retrieving talk..... :D although, it does boggle my mind that in the US the dogs don't flush the birds, but the handlers do! They're doing half the dogs work! Anyway, ahem, back to retrieving!!!

Yes I did think it sounded a bit simpler then out Oz rules

In retrieveing talk... I have read two schools of thoughts with pups training. One is that bumper play/retrieves should be limited and another is that you build so much desire they can be used as a reward. Discuss

[The Spotted Devil]

LL would be good to answer this one but she's probably out training

Humans tend to differentiate between work and play. But I suspect that dogs don't. What if everything we train them to do is a really rewarding "game" (with rules of course)...obedience, agility, retrieving - how motivating would that be?

[fetchindawgs]

Happy throws were used in all my pups initial training to develop their desire to retrieve, and also their sense of fun. I still do happy throws as a reward after they have completed what may have been a difficult training run. I call out "hey, hey" and throw a short bumper. They would keep this up all day if given half the chance. Mind you, they do receive food reward as well during training, but usually after the happy bumper.

Off subject; remember that the Retrieving Club is holding training days for beginners for the next 3 Sundays. I think it is at Kings Meadow in Guildford. Groups are divided into beginner and others who may be on the brink of Novice trials. Experienced handlers are there to help with questions and give an insight into how to begin training pups or older dogs for retrieving trials. Anyone interested should make the most of these training days, as these four weekends are the only ones for the whole year.

[RallyValley]

Happy throws were used in all my pups initial training to develop their desire to retrieve, and also their sense of fun. I still do happy throws as a reward after they have completed what may have been a difficult training run. I call out "hey, hey" and throw a short bumper. They would keep this up all day if given half the chance. Mind you, they do receive food reward as well during training, but usually after the happy bumper.

Off subject; remember that the Retrieving Club is holding training days for beginners for the next 3 Sundays. I think it is at Kings Meadow in Guildford. Groups are divided into beginner and others who may be on the brink of Novice trials. Experienced handlers are there to help with questions and give an insight into how to begin training pups or older dogs for retrieving trials. Anyone interested should make the most of these training days, as these four weekends are the only ones for the whole year.

I work Sundays and I only have a Kelpie Just in this thread getting info for my future dog.

[The Spotted Devil]

RV - see if you can get along to a trial one day and either observe or help out as a thrower. I have benefited so much by having competed in retrieving already and also managed to help out at one of those trials as someone who placed the blinds. Whilst you have to make yourself inconspicuous you can still watch how a dog hunts an area for a bird, how persistent it is and how it was handled - although we are training at a very basic level I understand why the drills and groundwork are so important. I commented to LL the other day that I am yet to observe at a trial as I was too busy running from stake to stake with her dog I will make the effort this year!

[RallyValley]

RV - see if you can get along to a trial one day and either observe or help out as a thrower. I have benefited so much by having competed in retrieving already and also managed to help out at one of those trials as someone who placed the blinds. Whilst you have to make yourself inconspicuous you can still watch how a dog hunts an area for a bird, how persistent it is and how it was handled - although we are training at a very basic level I understand why the drills and groundwork are so important. I commented to LL the other day that I am yet to observe at a trial as I was too busy running from stake to stake with her dog I will make the effort this year!

I was at a trial as a spectator last year and plan to see a retrieveing and field trial this year The field trial will be very interesting because I think I am heading more down a field trial path then a retrieveing trial path.

[Lablover]

In retrieveing talk... I have read two schools of thoughts with pups training. One is that bumper play/retrieves should be limited and another is that you build so much desire they can be used as a reward. Discuss

It is easy to keep throwing retrieves, until the dog is nearly exhausted. With a less than ideal reward history some dogs, normally pups or youngsters, stop retrieving, thereby devaluing the retrieve/reward. "Keep em keen, watch especially the youngsters, finish on a good note, and the dogs begging for more".

Some pups are slower to mature, physically and mentally.

Some trainers have throwers too far away..making the retrieves difficult. Some trainers have the throwers toss in high cover..making the retrieves difficult for pups. Some trainers throw too flat. Some trainers have throwers toss article too high. Some trainers ...........etc etc etc.

Have I helped??????

Edited March 18, 2011 by Lablover

[RallyValley]

In retrieveing talk... I have read two schools of thoughts with pups training. One is that bumper play/retrieves should be limited and another is that you build so much desire they can be used as a reward. Discuss

It is easy to keep throwing retrieves, until the dog is nearly exhausted. With a less than ideal reward history some dogs, normally pups or youngsters, stop retrieving, thereby devaluing the retrieve/reward. "Keep em keen, watch especially the youngsters, finish on a good note, and the dogs begging for more".

Some pups are slower to mature, physically and mentally.

Some trainers have throwers too far away..making the retrieves difficult. Some trainers have the throwers toss in high cover..making the retrieves difficult for pups. Some trainers throw too flat. Some trainers have throwers toss article too high. Some trainers ...........etc etc etc.

Have I helped??????

Yes Be prepared... I will hate lots of questions closer to getting the pup.

[The Spotted Devil]

Just thought I'd update with some puppy progress

We train nearly every day even for a few minutes and, if not retrieving, we do some obedience or agility foundations (had our first lesson the other day and Em now loves the tunnel).

At our private agility lesson, Em did really well for such a youngster but I got in SO much trouble for only teaching her to heel on one side A quick chat with LL confirmed my understanding that you can not only send to a retrieve from the right hand side but it is advantageous to be able to do so. Thus, Em now is pretty comfortable with "close" and is happily doing sighted blinds from the right hand side, although we are sticking to small piles at relatively short distances until we both gain in confidence.

Still working on right backs and left backs - the penny has certainly dropped and it's incredible how she takes hints from my body language prior to giving the signal so will have to watch that. I tried "over" today (just to the right) for the first time - slightly hesitant to begin with but I have no doubt she'll pick up the pattern pretty quickly - didn't do too much with that, more of an intro than anything as I asked a lot of her today.

I decided that the sooner she realises that there might be two dummies to pick up and I select which one first, the better. Today I placed two dummies at about 10 and 2 o'clock when she was in the car and then set her up between them at about half her normal distance. I had already decided to pick up the 2 o'clock dummy first but she had clearly got a visual on the 10 o'clock dummy and her little head kept swinging around to have a look. I had to gently say "no" and line her up correctly for the 2 o'clock dummy, which I'm pretty sure she hadn't seen at all. It took a few attempts to get her nice and straight but it was well worth it as she rocketed out to the correct dummy and brought it straight back with only a sideways glance at the 2nd dummy. A really good lesson for her to trust that there is always a dummy at the end of the rainbow On the way back to the car I realised that I was missing a dummy. Spotted it half way across the oval, set Em up on the right hand side and sent her - little rascal saved me a trip

Oh, and I've had to stop calling out "sit" at a distance when she is having a free run as she's started looking over her shoulder or offering a sit and expecting me to throw a dummy Will give that a rest for a little while!

Edited March 22, 2011 by The Spotted Devil

[RubyStar]

TSD, all sounds like its going fabulously!! Is there any chance you can do a little video for us (erm, me ) on how you're teaching her left and right backs and overs? :D I'd really like to start Ruby on some of this but clueless where to start!

[The Spotted Devil]

TSD, all sounds like its going fabulously!! Is there any chance you can do a little video for us (erm, me ) on how you're teaching her left and right backs and overs? :D I'd really like to start Ruby on some of this but clueless where to start!

More than happy to RS - have been meaning to drag Mr TSD down to the park with the video camera anyway!

Most importantly we are both having lots of FUN!

[Lablover]

Yes Be prepared... I will hate lots of questions closer to getting the pup. ;)

AOK.

Best to buy working lines, natural instinct, better drive, memory etc.