Dog Chewing Own Tail

[melz85]

We have a 15 month old mixed breed dog, believe she is staffy x red heeler + maybe a few other things. We had her spayed at age 6 months. She's a lovely dog, very good around my children, but since she was a pup she has had a habit of chasing her tail. It started off that she would sometimes chase it while she was eating, as though she is "guarding" her food,especially if she was given a nice juicy bone or something.

In the beginning it seemed rather "playful" but it started getting worse, to the point where she would lunge at her tail and bite it quite hard, drawing blood. We took her to the vet, (we live in a small town quite far from anywhere else, there is only one vet clinic). They had a look at her and said the only thing they could do was give her medication for her "mind" because she has a mental problem. At the cost of $70 every 15 days. There is no way our family can afford to pay for this. We bought a plastic e-collar and they gave her a shot of penicillin and we took her home.

She started to get a little better, the only time she would go for her tail was if she was given a "treat" like a bone or chicken carcass to eat, instead of eating it she would sit near it and "guard" it, attacking her tail when she saw it move from the corner of her eye. So we stopped giving her bones and only gave her dog biscuits and dog roll, and kept a very close eye on her until she had finished eating it.

But around christmas my partner gave her a bone and didn't watch her, she bit her tail quite badly, to the point where she actually bit the tip of it off, around an inch or so. She will lick/chew the tail all the time now, food or no food, so I have had an e-collar on her almost 24/7 to try to stop her but she can sometimes squash the plastic cone against the ground and reach far enough to just get at the tip of her tail. I take the collar off a few minutes at a time during the day so she can clean herself etc but she has to be under VERY strict supervision, as soon as she starts licking her tail the collar has to go straight back on. I have been cleaning it every 2 days and applying centrigen or chloromide pink antibacterial spray on the tip. I do not have it bandaged/covered. It does not appear to be infected.

She seems happy enough, the e-collar must annoy her but she still runs around with the kids playing like usual. Apart from the tail she is healthy, we keep her wormed, never seen a flea on her, bathe her regularly and her skin/fur looks healthy. Her tail seems to start getting better but sometimes the wound kinda opens up again if she knocks it or gets a chance to lick it. I will keep the collar on her till she heals but I'm guessing she'll probably attack it again one day and we'll be back to square one.

A couple of people have said that maybe I should get her tail amputated, but that would be very painful, and I have read/heard that a dog might start attacking another body part eg a leg or something if their tail is gone.. also I don't have a lot of money for vet bills. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to handle a dog like this?

[persephone]

This is not good. You really need to consult a VETERINARY behaviourist .

I have seen this briefly somewhere..youtube? where a dog kept attacking its leg. It is a big problem ... and if you want to know exactly what is happening, and have some chance of managing it you DO need to see a professional (not just an ordinary vet)

I'm sorry this problem is happening...and hope you can find a way to get the funds together to see someone and get a definitive answer.

Cesar Milan has also had one of these on his show.. but I can not remember what happened .

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: Tail chasing / mutilation can be a very difficult habit to cure, it can be an obsessive compulsive disorder that can in time become incurable, only manageable at best.

Due to the movement restriction I prefer using a muzzle over an Elizabethan collar, you will also need a program to work on with the drug therapy.

It is true that amputation sometimes only see's the dog transfer to a rear leg / paw so it is a last option, this usually happens when the dog has mutilated its tail beyond repair.

At times you can also use medication to numb the tail, the pain sensation often attracts the dog to it.

[persephone]

While I was doing dishes,I was just thinking,too....

if it seems to also have a 'guarding' aspect... when you feed her- can you do so using a real bucket instead of the clear plastic elizabethan collar? or a E collar which is opaque? Feed her in a small bowl raised off the ground, so the E collar/bucket fits OVER it .. so she can not see any tail movement? She will be eating in a tunnel ..with vision of her bowl only....

Make sure she is always hungry .. so she does not have the luxury of waiting to eat?

Due to the movement restriction I prefer using a muzzle over an Elizabethan collar, you will also need a program to work on with the drug therapy.

Muzzles are great when interacting more with family,and indoors

[persephone]

They had a look at her and said the only thing they could do was give her medication for her "mind" because she has a mental problem

And they are probably correct.

[rajacadoo]

From some research I have done, I believe that ACD's and I think Bull Terriers, (dont quote me on this breed though), are prone to this tail chasing behavior...

I have had ACD's since 1989 and I have had one dog who mutilated his tail by constantly chasing/biting it. I tried numerous things, (but as this was roughly the early 90's, there wasnt a lot of things to do, for him), without success. Eventually I had his tail removed altogether. He never tried to bite at any other parts of his body.

I have a friend who has an ACD, who has also just recently had his tail removed as well. This boy is about 3 years old. They tried all sorts of things with him as well, with no success...

Now I have a young nearly 13 month old boy, who is just beginning to do it as well . Not at all related to the previous dog of mine, or the dog above... Just about to launch into some medical/behavioral things with him, before it becomes a bigger issue...

I hope you get some answers for your dog :-)...

[persephone]

... isn't 'chasing' a tail/spinning .... different though to 'attacking' a tail when food is present ?

Do they have the same origins?

Edited January 17, 2011 by persephone

[poodlefan]

How much exercise and training does this dog get daily?

It does sound like an obsessive/compulsive behaviour. This can be managed with drugs but I was wondering if lack of stimulation might be playing a part.

An Elizabethan collar should be long enough that it goes well past the dog's muzzle. Eating and drinking in one shouldn't be possible let alone chewing on a tail. They aren't meant to be left on when the dog is unsupervised by the way.

[Aidan3]

They had a look at her and said the only thing they could do was give her medication for her "mind" because she has a mental problem. At the cost of $70 every 15 days.

I can only guess what your vet has prescribed, but that sounds quite expensive. Sometimes you can shop around, or maybe purchase the stronger version and cut the tablets in half (e.g if vet has prescribed 40mg, you might buy the 80mg and cut in half). Your vet should be able to advise.

[sheena]

I was in a pet shop a month ago buying some weed for my fish pond. There was an ACD X Lab big puppy in a glass cabinet & it didn't stop chasing it's tail the whole time I was in there. It was very distressing & I had to leave & I wont be going back to that shop. It was horrible...the dog just kept spinning trying to grab it's tail.

[melz85]

Hi thank you very much for all your replies. I have an appointment with the vet this afternoon. I have heard that this is quite common in ACD, though I'm not really sure how much ACD she has in her, I'm just going by what the lady who we got her off told us. Her mum was a white staffy x and apparently her father was an ACD, I only saw the mother.

Has anyone had their dog on these "mind" drugs and how well did they work for you? Does the dog have to stay on them forever? Other than the fact I'd probably have to sell a kidney to pay for it, I'm also worried about the side effects. Not sure which particular drug the vet was recommending we put her on but reading a little bit on drugs that are commmonly prescribed for this it is quite scary. Will ask the vet for more info this afternoon.

By reading the reply from rajacadoo sounds like amputation can be successful. How long did it take to heal? Did your friend try these "mind" drugs first? I guess the vet probably wouldn't do this until after we try drugs. Will see what they say.

How much exercise and training does this dog get daily?

It does sound like an obsessive/compulsive behaviour. This can be managed with drugs but I was wondering if lack of stimulation might be playing a part.

An Elizabethan collar should be long enough that it goes well past the dog's muzzle. Eating and drinking in one shouldn't be possible let alone chewing on a tail. They aren't meant to be left on when the dog is unsupervised by the way.

I walk her as often as I can, usually around 40 minutes most days, the the shops and back or just around the streets. but I guess maybe she needs more than that? Once school starts back up she will walk with me to take my daughter to school which is about 40 minutes there and back, twice a day. We take her out to the river a couple of times a week so she can run around. We have a reasonably large yard where she runs around with the kids most of the day. She has a soccer ball that she loves to chase so most evenings we go out and kick it around the yard to each other while she is "piggy in the middle" she seems to love that.

She has to live outside (landlord's rules) but we spend a lot of time outside on the verandah, which is where she mostly lives/sleeps. I am a stay at home mum, so she's never home alone for long.

As for the ecollar, the one we originally had was given to us by the vet, she said it was the correct size for her. But we found she could reach the tip of her tail if she tried hard enough so I went back and asked for the next size up. It does go a few cm past her nose but a couple of times I have caught her with it pushed flat against the ground, holding her tail down and she can just reach the end. She has a bucket to drink out of and can easily do so with the colar on. She can eat out of her bowl with it on too but I take the collar off to feed her. I've never been told they shouldn't have them on while unsupervised? but when she's unsupervised is the time she really needs it on :-\

Anyway I will see what the vet says this afternoon. Thanks again for all your replies

Edited March 6, 2011 by melz85

[poodlefan]

I walk her as often as I can, usually around 40 minutes most days, the the shops and back or just around the streets. but I guess maybe she needs more than that? Once school starts back up she will walk with me to take my daughter to school which is about 40 minutes there and back, twice a day. We take her out to the river a couple of times a week so she can run around. We have a reasonably large yard where she runs around with the kids most of the day. She has a soccer ball that she loves to chase so most evenings we go out and kick it around the yard to each other while she is "piggy in the middle" she seems to love that.

Have you noticed any reduction in the behaviour after she's had a good run?

In people, OCD is linked to low levels of serotonin. Studies have shown that this can be linked to poor diet and lack of exercise.

Increasing the amount of exercise she gets won't cost you anything and may help.

What do you feed her?

[Staranais]

Dogs can get trapped places & be unable to escape when wearing an ecollar - my own dog has done this & got quite distressed, luckily I was there to rescue her. I'd rather leave a dog with a soft basket muzzle on unsupervised, although both options do have risks. There are some nice soft leather basket muzzles available, and K9Pro who posted in this thread sells cheaper soft (Jaafco brand) plastic basket muzzles.

If my dog had this issue I'd definitely go for a combination of behavioural therapy and drugs, rather than just drugs alone. Perhaps you can find a good experienced behaviourist to work alongside your vet, since vets often don't have the experience (or the time) to really go into the details of behavioural modification with clients, even if they'd like to do so.

ETA - your dog is a cutie pie!

Edited January 18, 2011 by Staranais

[Aidan3]

Has anyone had their dog on these "mind" drugs and how well did they work for you? Does the dog have to stay on them forever? Other than the fact I'd probably have to sell a kidney to pay for it, I'm also worried about the side effects. Not sure which particular drug the vet was recommending we put her on but reading a little bit on drugs that are commmonly prescribed for this it is quite scary.

There is really no need to be scared, I'm wondering if you found balanced, informed opinions or some of the nonsense put out by the anti-drug brigade who think "big-pharma" is out to steal their children and burn their crops?

Generally, the sort of drugs that a vet will usually prescribe for this sort of condition has it's effects on "serotonin", which is a chemical that the nervous system relies on. What researchers noticed was that animals who displayed certain kinds of behaviour appeared to have less serotonin than the rest of the population, so they designed drugs to increase serotonin, or increase the action of serotonin, in the brain. This was very effective at remedying certain type of behaviour and mood disorders. Some of the early drugs (e.g Redux) had some nasty side-effects, but since then safer and safer alternatives have been found with fewer and fewer side-effects.

There are genuine side-effects but the worst of these are not really applicable to an animal not intended for breeding. By all means, address these concerns with your vet. If you balance it up, the benefits greatly outweigh the risks in nearly all cases where a drug is appropriately prescribed.

[Staranais]

To be fair, Aidan, the information on side effects which is supplied by the drug manufacturers themselves would also worry many people who read it.

This is true of most drugs, of course.

[Erny]

I need to take my "professional cap" off for this one as I've tried this with only one dog and its behaviour, although related to chasing its tail, didn't seem to be as chronic or intense as your dog's behaviour. What I did was had the dog wear a T-shirt, knotted/adjusted so that it fitted firm. To mimic an anxiety wrap. This seemed to provide some assistance in distracting the dog from its tail. I can only presume that the feeling it received from the wrap had its mind conscious of its body, rather than merely centred on its tail.

As I mentioned though, the tail chasing in this instance wasn't as intense as your dog's behaviour sounds and it was for different reasons (ie excitement; had been inadvertently reinforced for the behaviour in the past). We addressed those causes as well, of course so it could have been that our home-made "anxiety wrap" was more of an initial distraction that gave us time to employ the other things we needed to lower excitement and to stop inadvertently reinforcing the behaviour. It may make absolutely no inroads towards helping your dog in your instance but I can't see it hurting to give it a try.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Erny

[Aidan3]

To be fair, Aidan, the information on side effects which is supplied by the drug manufacturers themselves would also worry many people who read it.

This is true of most drugs, of course.

Good point, they do cover every possibility. I sometimes wonder if over-disclosure is worse than failure to disclose?

Looking at those pictures, I can't help but wonder if that white tip on the tail is triggering something?

[Staranais]

I just wish they provided a risk estimate of some type when mentioning side effects that have been observed. A drug that has caused a particular side effect in 1% of dogs, for example, has a rather different risk profile to one that has caused the effect in 0.001% of dogs. Yet both effects would be listed on the packet insert in exactly the same way.

I sometimes wonder if the manufacturers are as vague as possible about side effects in order to avoid any possible legal action?

I suppose leaving this information off avoids additional expense in collecting & collating information on adverse effects. However, they could list adverse events reported per unit of drug sold, to avoid having to estimate how many dogs have been prescribed the drug.

[Erny]

Looking at those pictures, I can't help but wonder if that white tip on the tail is triggering something?

That's a thought worth exploring and experimenting with.

[Aidan3]

Looking at those pictures, I can't help but wonder if that white tip on the tail is triggering something?

That's a thought worth exploring and experimenting with.

I was trying to think what to colour it with, black texta maybe?

There are a whole bunch of neurological conditions that result in people (or animals) misidentifying parts of their bodies. Sometimes the solutions are intriguing.