Kelpie-i Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 My 5 year old male Kelpie suffers from what I think is exercise induced collapse. I've done some research on the WWW and he seems to be exhibiting most of the symptoms....although most of the sites talk about the condition being prevalent in Labs mostly. No matter how cold it may be, if he becomes over-active ie. chasing something with real gusto, he collapses as though he is to the point of exhaustion. It takes him anywhere from 15-30 mins to recover, depending on how 'hard' he's run. Forget trying to exercise him in warmer weather...it's just not gonna happen anymore. I have briefly spoken to my vet but she was not overly familiar with the condition. Does anyone here have any experience/knowledge on the condition and is there anything I can do, apart from reducing exercise....in a Kelpie It does seem to be getting progressively worse. Any info would be great. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) I have no experience with it in Kelpies it is present in Border Collies. Border Collies and Kelpies share a lot of the same heritage so I would google it in BCs. There is work being done on it in the US with BCs. http://www.cvm.umn.edu/vbs/faculty/Mickels...ieEIC/home.html Edited March 26, 2011 by Janba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted March 26, 2011 Author Share Posted March 26, 2011 Janba thanks for the article. A very interesting read. I too thought it may have been heat exhaustion, especially when it happened the first time a few years ago but since he recovered after a little while and then promptly got up and walked outside, I thought all was okay. He certainly gets the wobbles and walks as though drunk until he collapses and continues to breath heavily for ages. I try to bring his body temperature down with a wet towel or dousing him with water. I do hope they find some answers...I believe it to be genetic as his mother suffers from this as well, albeit not as bad from what I hear. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Has he had tests for heart/lung function ..and whatever else is connected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I might have seen a case amn older kelpie at a few years ago at a herding clinic in very hot weather. He collapsed with a very wobbly gait just before the collapse. He was treated as heat exhaustion but recovered completely in a short while. I will be seeing his owner tomorrow so will ask him about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) Has he had tests for heart/lung function ..and whatever else is connected? It is the complete recovery in a realively short time with nolasting effects that differs from heat exhaustion and other physical problems. edited cause I can't spell Edited March 26, 2011 by Janba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMAK Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 haven't heard of that in kelpies either?? One of my kelpies get a bit heat exhasuted after exercise and takes a while to cool down, due to breathing problems, he always jumps in the pool and basically lays on the cold grounds until recovered from a long 1 hr "chuck it stick" run what types of exercise does the dog do this with ? maybe you can try more mental stimulation, and controlled on leash walks for short amounts of time but regular through out the day/morning/afternoon for a while and see if that changes anything. surely your vet should know some symptoms of how to stop/help fix the problem or determine why ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted March 26, 2011 Author Share Posted March 26, 2011 Has he had tests for heart/lung function ..and whatever else is connected? No Persephone...the vet thought it was heat exhaustion initially but when I explained that it happens in all weather, she was a little stumped. She'd heard of the condition but wasn't too sure about it. Is there a specialist vet I should be seeing?? Janba, if you could ask that person, it would be great. It's horrible when it happens and all I can do is sit there and wait with him until he recovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Perhaps ask Werribbee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) Has he had tests for heart/lung function ..and whatever else is connected? No Persephone...the vet thought it was heat exhaustion initially but when I explained that it happens in all weather, she was a little stumped. She'd heard of the condition but wasn't too sure about it. Is there a specialist vet I should be seeing?? Janba, if you could ask that person, it would be great. It's horrible when it happens and all I can do is sit there and wait with him until he recovers. Denise Wall who posted a couple of the videos in the link I gave is very knowledgeable and very approachiable. Send her a mesage if there is a link and ask her about it - she is a scientist. ETA PM Ness from DOL and ask her about it too Edited March 26, 2011 by Janba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted March 26, 2011 Author Share Posted March 26, 2011 catherine.b, it's normally when he's either working sheep, chasing the ride on mower or motorbike and sometimes when playing frisbee...so pretty much every time his heart rate is substantially elevated. I take him jogging with me every 2nd day and he is fine with that (4.3km run), but then again he's not getting all worked up when we jog. I have to lock him in the kennel when my OH mows he paddock unfortunately, but my teenage son doesn't always remember to do that when he's mowing the grass. surely your vet should know some symptoms of how to stop/help fix the problem or determine why Like I said, she didn't know a whole heap about it and the only information I could find was on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 chasing vehicles isn't the safest anyway-tell him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted March 26, 2011 Author Share Posted March 26, 2011 chasing vehicles isn't the safest anyway-tell him Yes you try telling that to a kelpie ....Or did you mean my absent minded 17 year old son!! Thanks Janba, will make contact with Ness and Denise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) Hi Kelpie-i - sorry saw this thread earlier but have been a little pre-occupied tonight with other things so haven't had a chance to respond yet. It is highly likely that my nearly 3 year old BC has this. It was suggested when she was around 14-16 months and if I look back on some of what she showed prior to this time it was certainly there. She is lucky to last 5-10 min of ball on a relatively mild day before she starts showing signs of collapse. She would then recover completely and be ready to go again inside 20-30 minutes. The most problematic weather conditions for me was actually the milder days rather than the really warm days. 20-24 degrees seems to cause her serious problems whereas 30/35 degree weather is less of an issue. I think maybe its because I was more careful with the warmer temperatures and pulled exercise sooner then I might have done in the early days with the more moderate temperatures. Kenz's exercise is pretty strictly managed. She gets a number of shorter training sessions/play sessions and I end the game before I notice her start to develop signs of collapse. We had a few really bad episodes in the early days and occasionally I get caught a little off guard and have resulted in needing to carry her home from the park. I make sure I have access to a cool coat with her for much of the year and we don't tend to plan long walks or long play sessions unless there is a water source nearby (creek, pool, beach). Her agility training sessions are kept right down to only a handful of rounds on a night and after she has done her run her cool coat gets put on until I run her again. We seem to be doing ok with managing and yes its frustrating because she is otherwise a fairly energetic high drive border collie. She doesn't sleep much during the day and I guess I have been in a position to provide her exercise needs in short bursts that avoid collapse. Edited March 26, 2011 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) Kelpie-i ..... I think Lablover knows a bit about Exercise Induced Collapse. Perhaps PM her and point her to this thread? Edited March 26, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 I asked the kelpie owner and it wasn't EIC but bought on by other problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share Posted March 27, 2011 Ness thanks very much for your input and I agree, it's definitely the milder days that are the problem. I don't tend to do too much high energy stuff with the dogs on warmer days so those days aren't too much of an issue. I have 2 Kelpies and one of them, the female Tasha, can go on forever without even as much as a heavy pant whereas Gabe is very different. Just this afternoon I was out with all the dogs in the paddock throwing the frisbee a few times and I started to notice Gabe's lowered head and heavy breathing after 10 mins and had to stop and bring him inside. I'll get him to Weribbee vet and have him checked over. In the meantime, managing the exercise sessions is my only option, but like Ness, it sometimes too easily gets away from me. Ness is your dog on any medication for it, or is is just managing the excercise? Thanks Erny...I send her a PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) Nope no medication best we do is manage exercise and yes it does still get away from you regardless. I have been told though that the more "collapse" episodes they experience the less it takes to get them to that point in the future so I really do try hard to avoid them. I will mostly likely get around to having blood taken and submitted as part of the BCC study. Edited March 27, 2011 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share Posted March 27, 2011 Nope no medication best we do is manage exercise and yes it does still get away from you regardless. I have been told though that the more "collapse" episodes they experience the less it takes to get them to that point in the future so I really do try hard to avoid them.I will mostly likely get around to having blood taken and submitted as part of the BCC study. I read about the BCC study via the link that Janba put up. I have filled in the survey...I know it's a BC study but they were talking about stock and working dogs so I thought I might give them my info. Please do post any links to updates on the study...would be very interested in the findings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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