Steve Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I agree with Tralee - even though on big properties they are doing a great job they love their people and it seems such a waste to have them un attended by people for days or weeks at a time. I think its likely that mine would take a bait . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) Ok, I was only going off what I have read so far. I am not sure if I would be bringing the sheep/goats in every night. Probably yes during lambing and such, but not other times? However, my property is not so huge that I can't actually check every paddock every day, it is about 600 acres. So you think that the dog would still want and need the human companionship on a regular basis? How does this translate to a regular farm situation? Will they leave their flock to come hang out with me while I am doing farm chores? Or do I need to go sit in the paddock with their flock for a few hours each day? Lol sorry, as I said, I have zero experience with LGDs. It seems a little impractical for me to go hang out in the sheep pasture several hours a day though, there probably won't be enough time for that. Coming inside at night with the other dogs would leave the flock unprotected at the most important time? I don't really think we get many ticks around here, I have never found one on any of my other animals. I would probably need to keep the dogs away from the house and sheds if I suspected people were coming out here to avoid them feeling the need to come back later with bait as has happened to some guard dogs in town :/ Edited September 18, 2012 by BlackJaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Its not The Maremma that dont cope without humans. Mine don't come in at all.They are with the sheep 24 hours a day but some human here has contact with them every day because that's what makes me happy. Ive no doubt the dogs would be just as happy if they didnt see humans as they are very much sheep dogs but I like to check them and say hello - which is easy for us because of the way our property runs and its size . There are thousands of working Maremma which have no human contact for weeks and they do just fine including several I've bred.The dogs are happy with what they learn is normal - they dont need humans but they cope well with humans if its normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Also, a working Maremma is quite different to a non working Maremma.They crave company but not necessarily human company. My working Maremma say goodaye and come up for a pat when we come into their paddock but they want the company of the sheep way over and above anything else. They make you think they love you just as they make the sheep think they love them - everything these guys do from the minute they are born is designed to create this illusion so you think they feel about you the way that you feel about them - not necessarily true.They are working and part of that is making you believe they want to be with you and make you dependent on them and trust them to look after you if you are oe of their species but reality is - as much as it hurts to know it they prefer the company of what ever species they live with and feel they need to protect.Do they crave human company - no I dont think so but they are human friendly and accept that you are part of the species life that they live with . You cant live with them the way they used to live with them in Italy where the human is always part of the small flock and you dont want them to want your compnay more than they want the sheep. For me personally , I have them in my house and also working.The ones in the house sit with me, go with me everywhere I go as I move around the farm,have no interest at all with the sheep but there is a huge difference between that and the working dogs who say hello, get a feed and pat and clearly want the company of the sheep way over me. The beauty of the breed is that they just go with the flow what is normal on your property is normal for them, and thats why you need that initial period where the species they will work with get to trust them and they are working out what is normal and in my opinion part of that normal should be sighting them daily and handling them though I know that they do just fine if they are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 What it means to say that Maremmas are an affiliative breed is that they do not cope with being isolated. This is partly because they do not cope with having their role as guardian usurped. Take away the guardian role from a Maremma and then the rehoming problems start. Some Maremmas take to protecting livestock like a duck to water because that is what they have been bred for over the last 2000 years. I have known Maremma who fret and pine for their charges if removed from their paddocks. In my sense of canine husbandry, daily checks on dogs is mandatory but I understand that less frequent vigilance is often employed. The underlying criteria is always the welfare of the dogs. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 In NSW you have to physically sight a dog at least once in every 24 hours via the prevention of cruelty to animals act. I know in Queensland they drop a dozen Maremma in the middle of a couple of hundred thousand acres and by nightfall they reckon that every animal of the species they work with on the property has a dog guarding it and they only check them every month and it works well, they cant live without them. But I would hate that - I guess because my dogs are my priority over my sheep and around here normal is seeing us everyday so we can check you're O.K. Im just too soft to be that kind of farmer. You gotta know your weaknesses :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Ok well checking on them every day should be possible (except maybe when I am away at horse shows etc), just wouldn't have time to do more than say hello or some days even just ride/walk/drive past their pasture. I simply do not have time for another pet dog and the only reason I was considering getting another dog (or dogs, if necessary) was because I could not otherwise think of a way to protect anything smaller than cattle from pigs and foxes. I simply do not have enough money to put up a predator/pig proof fence along our entire several km fence line... If the dogs would be able to cope with this situation then they sound like a good solution. How do they go with housing? Will they need their own shelter if there are no buildings in the pasture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Mine has two shelters but only uses one if the sheep do. If the sheep hunker down for the night out in the rain, so does the dog. He will never use the 'cosy kennel' as he can't see everything from there and the sheep dont fit too, the sheep shelter seems to be his preferred choice as it is large and only three sided so he can still see everything and be with the sheep. The cosy kennel has soft blankets and is insulated - total waste :laugh: It sounds like you would be best looking for a couple of adult dogs already proven? My young male is 11 months old and still needs constant supervision. Just yesterday I had to give a flat sheep some penicillin. I found bite marks all over her legs from the dog. She is his favourite and he turns all his playful attention on her. He is now back to being tethered when I am not at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Yes, an adult dog sounds like a better choice to me as well but once I am ready to actually purchase a dog I would probably choose a breeder who knows what they are doing (hopefully) and explain the situation to them and see what they advise. I do make time to train my other animals but am unsure how much time I would actually need every day for an LGD and for how long. If training consists of supervised turn-out with the lifestock I could probably incorporate that into other chores (gardening, looking after the lifestock etc). What does the daily training programme for a young dog generally look like? How long do they generally take to be trustworthy with stock? I realize this will differ from dog t dog but surely there must be some kind of average? I am not sure how affordable a pack of adult, fully trained dogs would be, either. How long do stock tend to take to accept the dog (if they have not previously had any dog experience other than herding dogs)? Also, how do you manage the dogs when shearing time/whatever comes around and their flock needs to be rounded up and handled by people who are unknown to the dog? I imagine they would fret a lot if they were locked away whilst the stock are handled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 http://www.sallson.com/workmaremmas.html Lots on my website to help answer some of your training questions. There is no way any Maremma should be chasing or playing with any animal they are working with and that is the biggest danger with getting an older dog which hasn't been bonded properly or of trying to cut the initial training short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 BlackJac, try contacting Andrea from Maremma Rescue. My two older dogs are from her and have been fantastic, just what I wanted. She matches them well to their new owners. Our first one from Andrea is a true working dog and was terrific until I retired her. Our more recent boy I got as a puppy, born in a paddock with stock, followed all the guidelines/breeder advice etc, yet suddenly at 11 months we have teething issues. I don't mind - we will work through it, but the rescues from Andrea were a lot easier and really useful dogs straight away. I find pups a bit of a gamble but with the adults you know what you are getting provided you source them from the right place. Our 'pup' is so hyperactive, I realise pups are going to be active but he bounces off the walls 24/7.:laugh: I feel like we are two steps forward, one step backwards all the time. I've just fostered two Maremma pups for Andrea and they were easy peasy in comparison. They left to their new homes reliable with stock, poultry etc and their owners are amazed at just how good they are. I think we just picked a real live wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Thank You both, I will go have a read of your website Steve and also have a look at Maremma Rescue. I will probably be back with more questions later if necessary ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Andrea is good at placing the right dog in the right place - just give her all of your details and be sure to explain exactly what you need the dog to do so she understands what the dog will be expected to do as there is a huge difference between a dog that works O.K. with handful of animals or a variety of animals on a small holding and one which needs to fend off bigger predators on a larger property with more of the animals it will need to protect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 (edited) Also try Maremma Rescue Victoria Edited September 19, 2012 by Tralee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 One day, at an Australian event, a Maremma will win Best in Group and then go on to win Best in Show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 If we can start producing dogs like this then we may be in with a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) Best in Show Again Looks like Brace, at the Italian National, no less. Edited December 23, 2012 by Tralee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbesotted Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 http://predator-friendly-ranching.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/relastionships.html?spref=fb excellent thoughts on the workings of LGDs. a must read in my opinion Helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now