Dogs " Not To Buy"

[Guest Ams]

Yep and he acknowledges that he didn't research before writing his article but stands by his comments.

[Brennan's Mum]

http://www.lovesdogs.com.au/dog-info/dogs-not-to-buy.html

Domestic Dogs have been specifically bred by humans for a desired set of traits in order to fill a desired pupose. Some puposes we have bred dogs for are Transportation, Herding, Guarding, Waste Consumption, Fighting, Retrieving, Hunting, Food Supply and Companionship.

Dog breeds come in and out of fashion all the time depending on their suitability for the purposes required, of course now their is much less a need for Transportation or Draft Dogs now then there was leading up to the 20th Century and thanks to the banning of fighting there has been a dramatic decrease in the number of on dogs that were bred for blood sports. Likewise there has been a massive rise in Poodle infused dogs thanks to their non-shedding coats which make them an easier inside dog.

The risk of a dog attack is extremely low in Australia thanks mostly due to responsible ownership and a tendancy for dog owners to be educated, it is also a result of controls on dangerous breeds. Dogs that have been specifically bred for a role in protection or aggression without question have a higher propensity to be involved in an altercation.

I fully understand many poeples point of veiw when it comes to labeling breeds as Not suitable for suburban living however just as statitstics tell us that being an pilot is much more of a deadly occupation then Truck driving however many more druck drivers die than pilots as there are vastly more truck drivers than Pilots. It is about looking at the facts and being responsible with those facts when choosing a dog to join your household.

Certain Breeds of dogs are much more dangerous than others but due to their low number are not high on the list of most dogs involved in dog attacks. Also what needs to be taken into account is the location of the many dogs on the list, Greyhounds for example are very often in public places due to their role in society where as Maremmas are mostly out Guarding sheep well away from human interaction.

Below is my list of dogs that in my personal expirience are NOT suited to family life in urban Australia.

Livestock Guardian Dogs

Adidi , Akbash, Anatolian Shepherd, Castro Laboreiro, Cuacasian Ovtcharka, Estrela Mountain, Great Pyrenees, Kangal, Komondor, Kuvasz, Maremma Sheepdog, Middle Asian Ovtcharka, Perrp de Pastor Mallorquin, Polish Tatra Sheepdog, Pyrenean Mastiff, Sarplaninac, South Russian Ovtcharka, Tibetan Kyi-Apso, Tibetan Mastiff, Tornjak.

For centuries farmers and shepards have used Livestock guardian dogs for protection from predators for their flocks. As we all become more aware of nature and safer ways to protect our planet people are looking for better solutions to predator control other than poisons, traps and guns to keep their stock safe.

I am a major advocate of Livestock Guardian Dogs and particularly for the Australian environment the Maremma Sheep as they have completely changed the way we have controlled dingos, foxes and wild dogs which can decimate sheep populations. By eliminating the need for poisoned baits and traps, making our farmland much safer and more humane.

Livestock Guardian Dogs (LGDs) share some common traits: they are about the same size and color as the livestock they were bred to guard; they exhibit the traits of Responsibility, the tendency to remain with the livestock and Protection, being extremely savage and vigilant towards any predators.

There are many more similarities among the LGD breeds than there are differences between them. Some breeds, like Pyrenees., were developed for tractability around people; others, like Tibetan Mastiffs, were developed for hostility toward those not of their camp - most LGDs fall somewhere in the middle.

Dispite looking very cute and fluffy LGD breeds are extremely protective and display this selectively bred trait by barking, posturing and intimidating as well as actually attacking which usually is not anticipated. They are also bred for the outdoors (my Maremmas live solely with their sheep flocks in the paddocks and do not enjoy dens or seek shelters) therefor have a very high shedding coating totally unsuitable for a family home.

Fighting Breeds

Bull Terrier, Dogo Argentino, Shar Pei, Presa Canario, Tosas Inu, Fila Brasiliero, American Pit Bull Terier, Bull Mastif

An ancient purpose for dogs was as a tribal war attack dog and large predator fighter as it was not that long ago humans had to contend with bears, wild boar, lions and well armed enemies, so large highly muscular and fearless dogs were bred to protect their owners and attack others.

Whilst without question a dog can have its agression kept under check with good management in the crucial first 7 weeks of its life, these breeds of dog non the less have been genetically constructed to attack and rip flesh and that can not be denied and must be carefully managed.

Touch Insensitivity Trait

One of the traits that was selectively bred for in the pit bull in order to make this dog breed into a more efficient fighter is what is known as touch insensitivity. This trait of touch insensitivity is common to dogs bred for fighting so that despite being severely wounded they would continue fighting. A dog high in this trait would be pretty much impervious to a might yank on its chain which goes a long way in explaining why it is so difficult to call off and disengage a pit bull engaged in an attack.

Other traits that were bred into the pit bull that enhance its violent nature are a tendency towards dominance and excitability; both excellent traits if you’re designing the ultimate fighter. Other features that the pit bull was selectively bred for all in the name of the “ultimate canine fighter” were enormous jaw strength, unparallel tenacity and extreme resilience!

In fact the Pit Bull is unique amongst dogs in exhibiting the unusual behavioral trait of being unfazed or undeterred in attacking opponents far larger than themselves. This would account for the unusual pattern of their attacks in that they are just as likely to attack an adult as they would a child! The Pit Bull is also notorious for attacking without warning or apparent provocation (that’s where that excitability trait comes into play).

Whilst Most Dog Attacks in NSW do not involve Pit Bulls as a percentage of their breed they double the next breed most likely to be involved in an attack at 1.5% for Pit Bull Crosses and 1% of Purebreds in comparison other breeds in the top 10 that have attacked humans the Kelpie attackers represent a mere 0.09% of their total and the Labrador, (along with the Maltese and Jack Russel) represent a tiny 0.03%.

These figures do make one thing clear, dogs are highly unlikely to offend. However the likelyhood of a fighting dog being involved in an attack is incredibly higher than other types of dog.

It is my belief that Fighting dogs are not suitable as family pets and belong in the one place they are suited...the back of Pigging Utes doing what they are predisposed to do.

Me finks farmer Dave needs to find a wife that knows how to use spell check

I gave up looking

If I remember correctly, Farmer Dave is the guy who 'came out' whilst on Big Brother, so he would probably prefer a Husband ;) .

As for the crud he says-- well, I looked at his ''achievements'' on his Facebook page. Sorry, but I am not going to be taking behavioural advice from some one who feels winning 'Friday Night Live' on Big Brother is an important award ;).

Although nice to see the DOLers informing him of his mistakes on FB

Edited October 19, 2011 by Brennan's Mum

[Dju]

I'm finding it hard to dislike this guy, he sounds so oblivious and nice at the same time regarding comments on his Facebook page, even some that were meant to be very critical of him. I kinda admire people who can remain so perky and chilled when people are criticising them, without resorting to being childish or acting supremely offended. He's a numpty, but a likeable numpty!

Of course it's a bad thing if someone is taking his advice and drafting a law with that as the basis, but I'm sort of in agreement with Corvus here.. some very difficult breeds that it's best the general public be wary of purchasing willy nilly anyways. Meh, I'm not really that interested in the article itself anyways to be honest, I just thought the Facebook comments were pretty interesting. He said he's going to take down the article, mission accomplished guys

[mita]

I'm finding it hard to dislike this guy, he sounds so oblivious and nice at the same time regarding comments on his Facebook page, even some that were meant to be very critical of him. I kinda admire people who can remain so perky and chilled when people are criticising them, without resorting to being childish or acting supremely offended. He's a numpty, but a likeable numpty!

Of course it's a bad thing if someone is taking his advice and drafting a law with that as the basis, but I'm sort of in agreement with Corvus here.. some very difficult breeds that it's best the general public be wary of purchasing willy nilly anyways. Meh, I'm not really that interested in the article itself anyways to be honest, I just thought the Facebook comments were pretty interesting. He said he's going to take down the article, mission accomplished guys

Nicely said that he's a likeable person who seems to be taking criticisms without going ballistic. And he makes a fair comment in his FB reply that his interest is to avoid dogs getting into homes where there's not a match.

But his comments do seem to imply that breed label is all explanatory....& if you avoid the ones he's listed....well, things will go well. The evidence , tho', continues to be how dogs are bred and raised links with how they'll tend to respond to humans & the world around them. And that applies to all dogs.

His position, tho', rather sets up stereotypes. As I said before, I can't see why he'd single out Tibetan Mastiffs as a 'don't buy' dog, any more than you'd list a GSD as a blanket 'don't buy' dog. My tibetan spaniel was brought up by her breeder in a great little family of her breed....with a Tibetan Mastiff happily living with all of them. In fact, the TM history is one of being caring of whoever & whatever is in the family. Training & management required the same as for any dog.

Edited October 19, 2011 by mita

[Brennan's Mum]

Just had a read of some of his training articles and they were.....interesting

http://www.farmerdave.com.au/dog-training/dog-information/training-tips/569-dogs-that-like-to-pull.html

Edited October 19, 2011 by Brennan's Mum

[Guest Ams]

Dju I must be going blind cause I can't see the comment that says he is going to take the article down.

[Keira&Phoenix]

Just had a read of some of his training articles and they were.....interesting

http://www.farmerdave.com.au/dog-training/dog-information/training-tips/569-dogs-that-like-to-pull.html

Seriously

[Keira&Phoenix]

Dju I must be going blind cause I can't see the comment that says he is going to take the article down.

In his response to my comment it sort of reads that he will take it down, although it wasn't very clear so I am not sure if that is what he meant.

[Dju]

I'm finding it hard to dislike this guy, he sounds so oblivious and nice at the same time regarding comments on his Facebook page, even some that were meant to be very critical of him. I kinda admire people who can remain so perky and chilled when people are criticising them, without resorting to being childish or acting supremely offended. He's a numpty, but a likeable numpty!

Of course it's a bad thing if someone is taking his advice and drafting a law with that as the basis, but I'm sort of in agreement with Corvus here.. some very difficult breeds that it's best the general public be wary of purchasing willy nilly anyways. Meh, I'm not really that interested in the article itself anyways to be honest, I just thought the Facebook comments were pretty interesting. He said he's going to take down the article, mission accomplished guys

Nicely said that he's a likeable person who seems to be taking criticisms without going ballistic. And he makes a fair comment in his FB reply that his interest is to avoid dogs getting into homes where there's not a match.

But his comments do seem to imply that breed label is all explanatory....& if you avoid the ones he's listed....well, things will go well. The evidence , tho', continues to be how dogs are bred and raised links with how they'll tend to respond to humans & the world around them. And that applies to all dogs.

That's most certainly true, it can apply to any breed as well, no matter how random (usually working breeds seem to be targeted the most though). It seems like only yesterday I was getting criticised by the puppy preschool I went to and told that I shouldn't have picked such a high-drive dog (a Swedish Vallhund ) and his excited barking at other dogs was a sure sign that he was going to turn into an unmanageable wreck by the time he turns two.. "if you even have him for that long". Dun dun dun.

[Keira&Phoenix]

I'm finding it hard to dislike this guy, he sounds so oblivious and nice at the same time regarding comments on his Facebook page, even some that were meant to be very critical of him. I kinda admire people who can remain so perky and chilled when people are criticising them, without resorting to being childish or acting supremely offended. He's a numpty, but a likeable numpty!

Of course it's a bad thing if someone is taking his advice and drafting a law with that as the basis, but I'm sort of in agreement with Corvus here.. some very difficult breeds that it's best the general public be wary of purchasing willy nilly anyways. Meh, I'm not really that interested in the article itself anyways to be honest, I just thought the Facebook comments were pretty interesting. He said he's going to take down the article, mission accomplished guys

Nicely said that he's a likeable person who seems to be taking criticisms without going ballistic. And he makes a fair comment in his FB reply that his interest is to avoid dogs getting into homes where there's not a match.

But his comments do seem to imply that breed label is all explanatory....& if you avoid the ones he's listed....well, things will go well. The evidence , tho', continues to be how dogs are bred and raised links with how they'll tend to respond to humans & the world around them. And that applies to all dogs.

That's most certainly true, it can apply to any breed as well, no matter how random (usually working breeds seem to be targeted the most though). It seems like only yesterday I was getting criticised by the puppy preschool I went to and told that I shouldn't have picked such a high-drive dog (a Swedish Vallhund ) and his excited barking at other dogs was a sure sign that he was going to turn into an unmanageable wreck by the time he turns two.. "if you even have him for that long". Dun dun dun.

:rofl:

Really still dwelling on that.

[Weasels]

Just had a read of some of his training articles and they were.....interesting

http://www.farmerdave.com.au/dog-training/dog-information/training-tips/569-dogs-that-like-to-pull.html

Huh, that is.... interesting. I suppose it's the 'teach a dog to bark so you can teach him to shush' philosophy, but I'm not a fan. I have dogs that pull on the jog to the park and not on the way back, and the way down I get much more of a sore back and calves than being able to jog at my own pace on the way back.

I also had a trainer once who had huskies and said that taking them sledding made training a loose lead walk muuuch more difficult

I agree tho that he seems to be taking this onslaught of passionate dog ladies on his FB and email quite well

[Dame Aussie]

I couldn't care less if he's nice or not, I have a livestock guarding dog and people are freaked out enough by his size, I don't need some loser off Big Brother telling everyone they're "savage", my dog is the biggest sook I've ever met.

He is an idiot.

[Keira&Phoenix]

Just had a read of some of his training articles and they were.....interesting

http://www.farmerdave.com.au/dog-training/dog-information/training-tips/569-dogs-that-like-to-pull.html

Huh, that is.... interesting. I suppose it's the 'teach a dog to bark so you can teach him to shush' philosophy, but I'm not a fan. I have dogs that pull on the jog to the park and not on the way back, and the way down I get much more of a sore back and calves than being able to jog at my own pace on the way back.

I also had a trainer once who had huskies and said that taking them sledding made training a loose lead walk muuuch more difficult

I agree tho that he seems to be taking this onslaught of passionate dog ladies on his FB and email quite well

See I see some of his comments as feigning politeness more than actual politeness.

[Dame Aussie]

Just had a read of some of his training articles and they were.....interesting

http://www.farmerdave.com.au/dog-training/dog-information/training-tips/569-dogs-that-like-to-pull.html

Huh, that is.... interesting. I suppose it's the 'teach a dog to bark so you can teach him to shush' philosophy, but I'm not a fan. I have dogs that pull on the jog to the park and not on the way back, and the way down I get much more of a sore back and calves than being able to jog at my own pace on the way back.

I also had a trainer once who had huskies and said that taking them sledding made training a loose lead walk muuuch more difficult

I agree tho that he seems to be taking this onslaught of passionate dog ladies on his FB and email quite well

See I see some of his comments as feigning politeness more than actual politeness.

As did I

[Weasels]

See I see some of his comments as feigning politeness more than actual politeness.

As did I

Yep, I guess you could be right, it was a bit confusingly expressed in some parts.

Google tells me he's making a doco about dingoes too - http://if.com.au/2011/08/09/inprod/Dingo---Wild-Dogs-At-War/VCVTYPIRUD.html , he does get around

[Dame Aussie]

See I see some of his comments as feigning politeness more than actual politeness.

As did I

Yep, I guess you could be right, it was a bit confusingly expressed in some parts.

Google tells me he's making a doco about dingoes too - http://if.com.au/2011/08/09/inprod/Dingo---Wild-Dogs-At-War/VCVTYPIRUD.html , he does get around

Dog help us!

[Aphra]

Whilst without question a dog can have its agression kept under check with good management in the crucial first 7 weeks of its life, these breeds of dog non the less have been genetically constructed to attack and rip flesh and that can not be denied and must be carefully managed.

I think this might be called having teeth. All dogs are genetically constructed to have teeth, it helps them do simple survival things like eat, now that the population of wild kibble is so much diminished ...

Edited October 19, 2011 by Aphra

[mita]

I rest my case re the Tibetan Mastiff.

They are quite popular in Europe. As I scrolled thro' the European Kennels, the notes stuck out how they socialised their TMs & many lived as part of the family. That's TM's great historical strength. They bonded to all in the family....big, small, human & other animals.

Here's proof pics from one TM Kennels. Pups raised indoors with children in the family....& even a face to face with the family puss. This is exactly the upbringing we'd want for any dog of any breed.

http://www.himaldog.com/

What FD should have said is for prospective puppy buyers, of any breed, to go to experienced registered breeders who follow that same practice. Who know their breed's nature well, but who specially socialise the puppies from birth. While continuing to allow their adult dogs to live a well-socialised life, too.

It's in that context that puppy buyers can get realistic expectations of a breed's needs. And if it'd fit their lifestyle. But also know that should they come to adopt a puppy, it will have been socialised from birth, along with parents.

Edited October 19, 2011 by mita

[RubyBlue]

I couldn't care less if he's nice or not, I have a livestock guarding dog and people are freaked out enough by his size, I don't need some loser off Big Brother telling everyone they're "savage", my dog is the biggest sook I've ever met.

He is an idiot.

need a 'like' button

[mita]

Whilst without question a dog can have its agression kept under check with good management in the crucial first 7 weeks of its life, these breeds of dog non the less have been genetically constructed to attack and rip flesh and that can not be denied and must be carefully managed.

I think this might be called having teeth. All dogs are genetically constructed to have teeth, it helps them do simple survival things like eat, now that the population of wild kibble is so much diminished ...

This teeth stuff reminds me of the verse from the funny old song, Big Rock Candy Mountain.

In the Big Rock Candy Mountains all the cops have wooden legs

And the bulldogs all have rubber teeth, and the hens lay soft boiled

eggs.