Really Rough Non-aggressive Play

[tiff-689]

I've been having a bit of trouble lately with my two. Buckley is 8 months, Abbie 9 months. They are quite opposite in nature to each other. Abbie is quiet and reserved where as Buckley is rough and go go go 24/7.

Buckley has never showed any aggressive tenancies towards Abbie or any other dog for that matter. Abbie often snaps if he disturbs her during her sleep but other than that, she doesn't show any aggression and he tends to ignore her warning signs anyway.

They have always played rough but lately it just seems to be the only way they interact and I'm afraid Buckley is going to injure her soon. Occasionally Abbie will instigate play but 90% of the time Buckley will start it by jumping on her, pulling her ears or running at full speed towards her. Abbie doesn't enjoy this at all and is often on guard, especially outside. She will often hug the wall and fences outside to avoid being 'attacked'.

He pushes her out the way to ensure he is first through the door and will steal her dinner away from her if I'm not there to supervise him. He is otherwise quite a well behaved dog and responds well to training but the only thing that stops him when he gets too rough is a jet of water from a spray bottle but i am not around 24/7 to supervise their play.

With other dogs, Buckley is a different dog. He is well behaved, shows respect and will keep his distance if given a warning...and when away from Buckley, Abbie comes out her shell and is more care free.

I'm just not sure what kind of training needs to be done to stop this rough play...?

[tdierikx]

Sounds like Buckley may need to be reminded of his place in the pecking order.

You may need a professional trainer to advise you of methods to get Buckley back into line.

There are a few here on DOL... I'm sure one of them will be by soon to give some great advice.

T.

[Dame Aussie]

If you are worried then I would do as tdierikx suggested and get a trainer to observe them playing and give you some advice. If it were my dogs I wouldn't be too worried, they are both still young and pups can be very rough in play.

Mosley quite often will launch himself at Lili (he is double her weight and at first I used to worry he would hurt her but he seems to know his own strength)and he also chews on her ears and grabs her collar etc, difference is she doesn't really seem to mind and just wrestles back.

Occasionally if he is too much she will crack it and attack him back and he knows she's had enough, but it sounds like your girl is a bit more reserved and maybe a bit overwhelmed by her mates enthusiasm!

Hopefully you'll get some advice from a trainer here. Good luck with it.

[corvus]

Can you give him something to distract him from pestering her, like a bone or Kong?

If you are really worried you can teach him to respect her signals more by providing a consequence. For example, say she looks away from him, carefully not making eye contact. You distract him away from her and reward him. Over time, you want to fade out distracting him so that when he sees her turn away from him, his response is to automatically turn away from her.

[Red Fox]

Seperate your dogs when you aren't there to supervise and intervene.

Feed seperately (in crates if you can).

Train your dogs to sit at the door and wait for a release command so that neither is pushing through.

Abbie often snaps if he disturbs her during her sleep but other than that, she doesn't show any aggression and he tends to ignore her warning signs anyway.

They have always played rough but lately it just seems to be the only way they interact and I'm afraid Buckley is going to injure her soon. Occasionally Abbie will instigate play but 90% of the time Buckley will start it by jumping on her, pulling her ears or running at full speed towards her. Abbie doesn't enjoy this at all and is often on guard, especially outside. She will often hug the wall and fences outside to avoid being 'attacked'.

You are allowing your male to bully your female which is not fair on her at all.

Hire a reputable professional trainer who can teach you how to ramp up your leadership a little more before the problem escalates.

http://www.k9pro.com.au/pages.php?pageid=100 This may help too.

[tiff-689]

He is very easily distracted with food but at the same time if i treat him, Abbie expects a treat as well and it can be hard to train with two bouncy over active puppies! Usually I'm not too worried about the way they interact but Abbie had quite a serious operation two weeks ago and her stitches are still in so i've had a hard job keeping both dogs quiet. It just seems like all they ever do is sleep or play fight and lately it's more fighting than anything else.

Would a time out work just as effectively as reward based training? Last night Buckley was jumping all over Abbie so i grabbed him by the collar and locked him in the laundry for 2 minutes. Waited for him to stop barking and then let back out. It seemed to calm him for a little bit..

Edited October 20, 2011 by tiff-689

[Nevafollo]

Pointers can be real push overs. I know all my girls are overly submissive when playing. Unfortunately i dont think I have any good advise, most of what i would have suggested has already been posted!

[corvus]

He is very easily distracted with food but at the same time if i treat him, Abbie expects a treat as well and it can be hard to train with two bouncy over active puppies! Usually I'm not too worried about the way they interact but Abbie had quite a serious operation two weeks ago and her stitches are still in so i've had a hard job keeping both dogs quiet. It just seems like all they ever do is sleep or play fight and lately it's more fighting than anything else.

Would a time out work just as effectively as reward based training? Last night Buckley was jumping all over Abbie so i grabbed him by the collar and locked him in the laundry for 2 minutes. Waited for him to stop barking and then let back out. It seemed to calm him for a little bit..

A time out might work just as well, but be careful. If it's too aversive or if Buckley is easily frustrated, he might take it out on Abbie. If you are going to use timeouts, mark it with something like "Too bad" and be very quick about getting him and putting him in timeout. The quicker the better. Ideally you would have his timeout spot very close. The marker will tell him exactly what this is a consequence for. He must understand what he did to cause the timeout for it to work.

Can you use attention as a reward instead of food?

[dee lee]

Seperate your dogs when you aren't there to supervise and intervene.

Feed seperately (in crates if you can).

Train your dogs to sit at the door and wait for a release command so that neither is pushing through.

Abbie often snaps if he disturbs her during her sleep but other than that, she doesn't show any aggression and he tends to ignore her warning signs anyway.

They have always played rough but lately it just seems to be the only way they interact and I'm afraid Buckley is going to injure her soon. Occasionally Abbie will instigate play but 90% of the time Buckley will start it by jumping on her, pulling her ears or running at full speed towards her. Abbie doesn't enjoy this at all and is often on guard, especially outside. She will often hug the wall and fences outside to avoid being 'attacked'.

You are allowing your male to bully your female which is not fair on her at all.

Hire a reputable professional trainer who can teach you how to ramp up your leadership a little more before the problem escalates.

http://www.k9pro.com.au/pages.php?pageid=100 This may help too.

I agree with everything, especially the bolded part. You are the pack leader, do not accept it.

You need to address this asap, while they are both still pups. Otherwise, once they are mature, there is a real risk of bloodshed.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

If you're running training sessions or treat sessions and one dog is sitting out in a crate or something - make sure the one that is sitting out gets rewarded roughly twice as often as the one you're working with - for being calm and polite in the crate - ie you don't want to reward barking its head off (cover the crate).

So first you have to work on getting the one that is sitting out (not time out) being ok with that. Maybe a kong would help, or just really short tasks with loads of rewards for the one in the crate.

I would catch Buckley every time he goes over the top or fails to come when he's called. You gotta stop him "self reinforcing" ie making his own reward and fun out of behaviour you find unacceptable.

[Guest english.ivy]

I had this problem with my two but Badger [the larger, rougher one] soon learnt to stop when I got his attention.

I diverted his attention [with no food rewards] to me and he quickly learnt to stop annoying Ivy. Now when he gets overly excited and it lasts more than a couple of minutes or I can clearly see Ivy isn't enjoying it/engaging, I let out a quick loud "Badger" and he stops.

I made sure I taught him without food so he learnt to stop with voice command as one doesn't always have food available.

Also if he is stealing her food, I would be feeding them in different rooms until he grows up a little and learns his order in the pack.

I also taught my two to sit and wait until they eat their dinner, they can't touch it until I say ok. Sometimes I make them wait a minute or two but they won't touch it till I say OK. Doing that helped big time with pack order and control. They drool big time though.

[tiff-689]

The thing is i've often spied on them through the glass when they don't hear me come home from work and a lot of the time they are calmly walking around or laying down next to each other. It's almost like Buckley puts a big show on when people are around to see it.

The food isn't too much of an issue as i am always there to watch them eating. I tell Buckley to sit and wait until Abbie finishes and then he's allowed to lick her empty bowl. It's when i don't say anything that he thinks he can stick his nose into her bowl.

I'de like to try some training with them myself before i get a professional in. So basically every time he initiates rough play i need to intervene before or during? The only thing he responds really well to is food but if he knows i have treats in my hand he would rather stick by my side rather than play with Abbie..And if he doesn't know i have treats, me calling him over isn't going to work when he's mid play fight..?

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

So basically every time he initiates rough play i need to intervene before or during?

The only thing he responds really well to is food but if he knows i have treats in my hand he would rather stick by my side rather than play with Abbie..And if he doesn't know i have treats, me calling him over isn't going to work when he's mid play fight..?

At the moment - given Abbie is still healing - stop him before if you can. Otherwise during. Ie gage when Abbie objects and then grab him.

If your recall doesn't work on him, maybe try it on her and grab him when he comes over, otherwise just go get him.

And in the meantime - looks like training task number one is working on his recall ie conditioning it so he comes automatically without making a decision about it. got yummy treats? three times a day when he's already headed your way - say your recall word and give him uber treats when he shows up. Do not use this recall word for anything else. Ie if you use his name to get his attention - use another for recall. Although if you get attention and recall - that can be good to depending on context.

Bowl and not saying anything - if he decides he can sneak in cos you didn't say, then put him back in the wait - without saying anything... ie the cue to wait should be - she's still eating not what you say.

efs

Edited October 20, 2011 by Mrs Rusty Bucket