molly22 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Hi everyone. I will be getting a 3yo registered miniature poodle, cream with Black points. While I don't wish to breed her just yet, when I do I want to make sure I breed to a colour that keeps the black points. I have looked into the genetics a bit, but can't find much information on what would happen if I was to breed a Black poodle to a cream - one site suggested I'd get a mix of black, brown and cream, which would be bringing in the liver pigment. Thanks for your time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 (edited) I think you are putting the cart before the horse. Choose the best stud dog you can in terms of conformation and temperament and compatibility with your bitch. What is your breeding aim? What could be improved in conformation in the next generation? Have you had different experienced people and judges critique the bitch? They are the important considerations in choosing the stud. Then look at the stud's pedigree, and look at your own bitch's pedigree, and you will be better able to predict the chance of a particular colour occurring in your litter. Edited December 11, 2011 by Greytmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benshiva Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Is that a recognised colour pattern in Poodles? Never seen that before. Would love to see a photo of her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poodle Mum Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 This should be a good thread to sit back and watch.... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molly22 Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 Perhaps I've used the wrong terminology. I saw it used on another site - it refers to black eyeliner and black nose. Thanks - I think I'll go elsewhere to find the information, this site sounds rather clique and unfriendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevafollo Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 (edited) Perhaps I've used the wrong terminology. I saw it used on another site - it refers to black eyeliner and black nose. Thanks - I think I'll go elsewhere to find the information, this site sounds rather clique and unfriendly. So do you just mean black pigment? and not brown? eg this? and not something like this? FYI these are just google images no idea wether they are 100% poodle or what the go is. Edited December 11, 2011 by Nevafollo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molly22 Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 Actually, I did use the right terminology. In poodles points refers to the nose and pad pigmentation. However, I have found the information I am after now. Poodlemum: "This should be a good thread to sit back and watch...." Sorry for sounding snappy, but I have no tolerance for people who live on the internet hoping to see forum fights. I was simply after a little bit of information from people who knew something, I wasn't aiming to entertain you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Molly22 .. You might find some relevant info - or contacts here, in the dedicated POODLE THREAD Good luck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Molly don't go! There is a lot of valuable, interesting and entertaining info on DOL, you just have to figure out what to take on and what to ignore, and make sure you read as much as you can so you don't inadvertently start a fire Re-reading your first post I can now see what you meant about black vs liver pigment on the nose and eyes. I'm no expert but I believe there should be options for finding a stud that you can be confident will maintain the black pigment. Talking to your girl's breeder, other Poodle breeders and continuing your research into breedin, colour genetics and lines should help you figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redial Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 When I think of points I think of pigment of the fur around the snout, tips of ears, below the knees and sometimes tail. I'd never seen that colouration ona poodle before, now it makes sense. I assume if you breed her to a dog of similar colouration then you would get at least some pups resembling the parents. Is she ANKC reg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelsquest Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Perhaps I've used the wrong terminology. I saw it used on another site - it refers to black eyeliner and black nose. Thanks - I think I'll go elsewhere to find the information, this site sounds rather clique and unfriendly. :rolleyes: Great judgement to make after 3 replies to your OP. I second Greytmate's post, great advice in there. Also, the breeder you are getting your bitch from should be able to provide you with a wealth of information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Yep - molly 22 if you are setting off on a breeding path.. find yourself a mentor .. perhaps the breeder of your bitch, or another breeder whose dogs are the type you like, or who you meet at shows ,etc. A mentor can be much help , both practical, and with the genetic webs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 When I think of points I think of pigment of the fur around the snout, tips of ears, below the knees and sometimes tail. I'd never seen that colouration ona poodle before, now it makes sense. I assume if you breed her to a dog of similar colouration then you would get at least some pups resembling the parents. Is she ANKC reg? Me too - I'm glad OP clarified since I was having trouble imagining a poodle with 'points' as I understand them. In dingoes, "5 white points" means just white paws and a white tail tip. In kelpies it is usually the tan marking on the legs, underside, muzzle, eyebrows and ears. And now there's another meaning for poodles Well I, at least, learned something from this thread :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redial Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Yes, the education is ongoing, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Just been googling, I think it's a US thing to call the nose, eye rims, pads etc points. The ANKC standard calls them nose, eye rims, pads etc and doesn't seem to mention points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Poodle Colour Genetics This site explains the genetics pretty well. Poodle colours are very complicated but the specific point you are asking about is fairly simple. Black pigment is dominant to everything else so a black bred to a cream would result in black pigmented puppies regardless of coat colour unless both the cream and the black happen to carry brown pigment as a recessive gene. Please don't leave the forum but understand that confusion comes from different terms used in different standards. To me "points" refers to markings like the tan on a Dobe or Rottie, not to nose, eyerim and lip colour. In most other breeds that is referred to as the pigment colour of the dog as opposed to coat colour/pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Arab Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 (edited) Got to bite, yes someone had to. Are you just breeding for color or for the breed? Are you planning on show homes or pet homes for the pups (is a good temperament crucial to the pet surviving in the world?)? Are you a member of a breed society? Is mum registered? If you are going to breed surely quality of sire and dam are 100 time more important than preserving coat or point color!!!! If mum has genetic issues, temperament issues, health issues (not saying she does just playing suppose) then why breed anyway. On the other hand are you going to pass up a sire with perfect health, perfect genetics but the 'wrong color'???? I see far to many dogs that were bread for 'rare color' end up in bad places (i.e. the pound or the vet surgery or in their 15th home)as the breeder didn't care about temperament or health just color. Remember to start puppy training early, and socialize!!! I learned a long time ago that a good horse is never a bad color. I think this applies to dogs as well!! Just a short rant Edited December 11, 2011 by Bull Arab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 glad it may be just a language thing - I imagined a poodle looking like a siamese cat, points-wise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Got to bite, yes someone had to. Are you just breeding for color or for the breed? Are you planning on show homes or pet homes for the pups (is a good temperament crucial to the pet surviving in the world?)? Are you a member of a breed society? Is mum registered? If you are going to breed surely quality of sire and dam are 100 time more important than preserving coat or point color!!!! If mum has genetic issues, temperament issues, health issues (not saying she does just playing suppose) then why breed anyway. On the other hand are you going to pass up a sire with perfect health, perfect genetics but the 'wrong color'???? I see far to many dogs that were bread for 'rare color' end up in bad places (i.e. the pound or the vet surgery or in their 15th home)as the breeder didn't care about temperament or health just color. Remember to start puppy training early, and socialize!!! I learned a long time ago that a good horse is never a bad color. I think this applies to dogs as well!! Just a short rant Why do you assume the op has not taken anything else into consideration? They are not trying to breed a rare colour but are just asking about the basic black pigment colour of Poodles and trying to understand how the genetics work. The way the question was worded didn't sound right to most people but that doesn't make it a less than legitimate question. Health, type, soundness and temperament are more important than colour but Poodle colours are very complex and anyone contemplating breeding them needs to get their head around what happens if you combine different colours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 (edited) Except BA that in this case if the OPs cream poodle has recessive liver and she breeds to a brown poodle she could end up with cream puppies with liver pigmentation (I think), which is outside the breed standard, so colour is an important consideration if she wants to breed to the standard. Obviously not as important as the health and temperament of the parents!! Edited December 11, 2011 by Saxonpup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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