Atanquin Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 There is a new lady in our class at obedience, and I can't help but keep on thinking WHY???? She has so much trouble training her malamute, he is typically stubborn and just dosen't listen to her but she just just laughs about it :s Say we are all simply doing the sit commarnd her dog will just lye down and not listen but she just stands their pleading with the dog to do it, instead of telling it and maybe trying different things and using a powerful voice. I asked her the other day about why she chose that breed and she said she liked them, that was all. And apprently she did alot of reading about them before she got a pup. But she is just obviously just not a strong enough person to coupe with a breed like that. Sigh oh well...... Rant over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 There is a new lady in our class at obedience, and I can't help but keep on thinking WHY???? She has so much trouble training her malamute, he is typically stubborn and just dosen't listen to her but she just just laughs about it :s Say we are all simply doing the sit commarnd her dog will just lye down and not listen but she just stands their pleading with the dog to do it, instead of telling it and maybe trying different things and using a powerful voice. I asked her the other day about why she chose that breed and she said she liked them, that was all. And apprently she did alot of reading about them before she got a pup. But she is just obviously just not a strong enough person to coupe with a breed like that. Sigh oh well...... Rant over Most people seem to think that the biggest difference between breeds is appearance Many people also think that undesirable behaviour happens because particular dog lacks the intelligence to understand what the owner wants. 'Training' for these people usually consists of issuing repeated commands and maybe physically correcting the dog when it ignores the commands. The poor dogs must get so confused.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Wow judgmental much. As you are clearly experienced in training why not offer her some help instead of labelling her incompetent on a public forum - perhaps she has simply not found a method which works for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Hi Antanquin :) I think the lady should be commended for being at obedience. I cannot see how it is possible to rate a dog breed with a personality or body type. Since the basic tenet of responsible dog ownership is 'deed not breed' the lady is to her credit at training with her dog. The fact that she likes the dog must go in her favour since it will allow greater tolerance. Not everybody is a born dog trainer, but they can learn, and liking the dog in the first place will make learning so much easier. As long as she enjoys her dog and they can have fun together the relationship for later training should be present. Regards Px Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shells Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 At least she is at Obedience and TBH if he is well cared for and loved that would be my main concern. She got a dog she liked the look of - no difference really to people who get a Poodle because they dont shed and people who would never get a poodle because they "dont like the look of them" but will go pick out a DD Poodle x - everyone has their reasons and those reasons may not make sense to others but thats the way it is. She atleast sounds like she has a good sense of humor :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 In those situations I think it's too late to comment on the breed suitability. They've got the dog, even tho' it might have been a stupendously bad idea, so now they have to learn to deal with it enough to get by or the dog will wind up at a shelter or a vet. Having an independent breed myself, if I thought I might have something worth trying I'd mention it, but otherwise it's her drama, not mine. At least the lady is at obedience class. And sure, privately a lot of people including me think "what the heck were you thinking lady?" but as Greytmate says, there's a lot of unconscious ignorance when it comes to dog selection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atanquin Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Wow judgmental much. As you are clearly experienced in training why not offer her some help instead of labelling her incompetent on a public forum - perhaps she has simply not found a method which works for her. I never labeled her as incompetent, just maybe not suted to the dog/ type of dog as she was struggling. And to be Honist I was surprised the other instructor didn't do some one on one with her. I'm too glad to see she is at training but I also think she should have said in the lower class longer as it is small so she would have gotten a bit more it of it, as class 2 is rather large Edited March 24, 2012 by Atanquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Wow judgmental much. As you are clearly experienced in training why not offer her some help instead of labelling her incompetent on a public forum - perhaps she has simply not found a method which works for her. I never labeled her as incompetent, just maybe not suted to the dog/ type of dog as she was struggling. And to be Honist I was surprised the other instructor didn't do some one on one with her. I used to see it when I was instructing. It is often a communication problem that instructors are not able to get everyone to realise that training is more than about saying commands and has a lot to do with body language and tone of voice. But I remember the case of an ex-nun with an unruly border collie that didn't seem to have the ability or the inclination to deepen her voice and speak in a less than pleasant tone. Other instructors and I struggled over weeks to try to help her. Some people are very uncomfortable with the 'theatrics and drama' that is an integral part of dog training. They stay for a couple of classes, giggle in embarrassment, and stop coming back. And yes they should have chosen an easier dog to train. Maybe private training is going to work better for these people than a club situation. Edited March 24, 2012 by Greytmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Wow judgmental much. As you are clearly experienced in training why not offer her some help instead of labelling her incompetent on a public forum - perhaps she has simply not found a method which works for her. I never labeled her as incompetent, just maybe not suted to the dog/ type of dog as she was struggling. And to be Honist I was surprised the other instructor didn't do some one on one with her. I'm too glad to see she is at training but I also think she should have said in the lower class longer as it is small so she would have gotten a bit more it of it, as class 2 is rather large Sometimes instructors are out of their depth with either the person or the breed or both. A good instructor will have enough self-awareness to know that. For example, I would probably be rubbish at teaching a kid struggling with a border collie. I am pretty reasonable teaching adults with sighthounds. When out of your depth, it's best to stick with the syllabus for the benefit of the majority of the dogs and suggest alternative avenues for breed specific trouble shooting - most of us know people who are successful with breeds that we don't have an interest in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverStar-Aura Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 It could just be that the sheer size of the class isn't doing this lady any favours. I found that once Zeus and I progressed from the beginner class there weren't enough instructors and it was like 20 dogs per instructor. Those who were quieter and didn't speak up weren't offered help because the louder, more pushier people got the instructors' attention. And when it came down to it, at a quick glance it appeared that Zeus and I were fine. Even now I struggle with loose leash walking as he'll only walk beside me if I have a treat, however, out and about he looses focus on the treat and finds smells much more appealing and turns his ears off. I'm now organising some time off work to visit Steve at K9 Pro because he's a bit reactive too and I know I couldn't learn how to handle this in a huge obedience class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Laughing is better than crying. I've seen plenty of that over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconRange Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Clearly from the dog's behavour, both of you are in the beginners class. Perhaps she hasn't done a lot of training with the dog. Perhaps she has not had a spitz breed before (who sometimes require a different training style to more suggestible breeds). Perhaps she has never owned or trained a dog before. Judging the woman for the dog's behaviour, especially one who is in a beginners class, is unhelpful at best. Hopefully, with time, she will either realise herself or be helped to realise that this style of training is not working for this individual dog, and she will find some better methods of training. Knowledge comes with help - self-education or education by others - and experience. Perhaps you could offer the help she needs, rather than rant about and judge an inexperienced woman simply for her inexperience. Initiating a friendly chat before classes commence can lead to a light discussion of training methods. Support, even in sharing of exasperation at the frustrating things that dogs can do, is infinitely more useful. Best of luck to her, and hopefully she'll soon develop some better handling skills and see some improvement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atanquin Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) There was a young girl about 13 years old with a really timid snappy boreder collie the other instructor did alot of private one on one with her and now she is so much better and same with a few different people that are struggling. But this poor lady clearly needs extra help and is obviously getting frustrated, and should still be in the intro class. I would help but I'm on such a tight time frame living 1 1/2 hours away as by the time we finish it is 8.30 I need o get zorro home to feed him and let the horses out on my way Maybe I should ask one of the instructors see if they have noticed. Edited March 24, 2012 by Atanquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Laughing is better than crying. I've seen plenty of that over the years. I've done that before, let alone seen it. Not in class tho' come to think of it, falls into the category of "only in the car on the way home"!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atanquin Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Laughing is better than crying. I've seen plenty of that over the years. I've done that before, let alone seen it. Not in class tho' come to think of it, falls into the category of "only in the car on the way home"!! I have done that too after rridin lessons and when I got kovu my GSD and the instructor told me his ears where too big bit of mean thing to say to a 12 year old Edited March 24, 2012 by Atanquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 More than 3/4 of instructing in any discipline is teaching the handler how to do it - whether it is obedience, agility, herding or just plain good dog ownership and manners. A lot of instructors at obedience clubs IMHO do not have the resources to do this whether because of class size and structure, time or lack of knowledge. At least the woman is trying and can laugh about her problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 That would have been me with my first dog- a Kelpie. She barked, didn't listen, would lunge around and managed to always be at the end of her 'gentle leader'. I was told by another member that if their dog was so bad they would have been to embarrassed to go to training!! I did actually drive home in tears a few times after training- but I wanted to get into dog sports!! She is now an Australian Champion, Flyball Master (has made about 4 errors in 5 years or running compared to my hundred or so), Has her CCD, one pass in Rally O, Herding title, Endurance test and is a Delta dog (visits nursing homes). She still the very rare moment of being an out of control lunatic (when she sees someone she knows from flyball) and I am still left on the end of the lead looking like a numpty who shouldn't own a pet rock!!! Sometimes the unco owner with a completely inappropriate dog just takes awhile to click. I now have a whole pack of Kelpies who are well trained. The Finnish Lapphund however is doing my head in- can do everything..... When she feels like it There are people who go out and buy 'pretty dogs' and don't look at personality. There are others that think they are getting a certain temperament and instead they get a nut case. Ultimately I have learnt the hard way to just focus on my own dog (unless instructing) because as soon as I feel good about myself and my training my dog will find some way to embarrass the hell out of me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atanquin Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 Anyway I dunno where some people got the idea I was being rude, and judgement about the lady I was just wondering why some people choose dogs that really are not best suted to them. And also who thought it would be a good idea to sell that type of dog to the lady who is a very shy and timid person and without informing them about perticular aspects of the breed. And what training would be required. Is it looks that people mostly go on to choose their dog? Or is there just too much miss information out there? Or maybe both :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suziwong66 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 More than 3/4 of instructing in any discipline is teaching the handler how to do it - whether it is obedience, agility, herding or just plain good dog ownership and manners. A lot of instructors at obedience clubs IMHO do not have the resources to do this whether because of class size and structure, time or lack of knowledge. At least the woman is trying and can laugh about her problems. As an educator of people, i've noticed this at obedience classes too. They may well be fantastic dog trainers but are less than adequate in their people education skills which incorporate all (and more of) the factors you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Perhaps she did do all the right research but overestimated her ability to deal with the breed? I have fallen into that trap previously, I now know my limitations, but I had to learn them the hard way. I really feel for the poor woman, I think your idea of talking to an instructor about her is a good one. It sounds like she needs help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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