Dog Attack At Saca Park In Adelaide

[Rebanne]

we only have one side of the story.

I hope the child recovers 100%.

[Salukifan]

Megan:

I am not in the dog show world but show dogs are meant to represent the best of the best. That means they should be even tempered and it would take a lot to provoke them. A dog that bites because it is petted isn't even tempered. I have a fear aggressive dog and she is never allowed near children. As an owner of a dog, it is my responsibility to take reasonable percautions.

Temperament depends on breed. Breeds vary widely in both triggers to aggression and in bite inhibition. That the general public know no better is one of the great frustrations and challenges to dog exhibitors in show with a large public attendance. I agree that no dog exhibited should be known to be HA but you get a wide variety of temperaments. It is totally the owners responsiblility to manage their dog to prevent incidents and I'm sure most of us can describe a few "interesting" incidents with kids.

However NO child can be held to the same standards of behaviour as an adult - they are impulsive and tend to generalise from their family dogs to others.

As adults the responsibility for protection of dogs from kids and vice versa falls entirely to us. Apportioning blame to the dog or the child here is unfair.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[Zug Zug]

oops didnt read above posts. I agree, I have empathy for everyone in this situation.. I hope you wont be asking for this dog to be PTS though in all honestly your own son is your responsibility.. (I am not being rude or insensitive just honest).

I see that remark as being rude & insensitive & quite stupid under the circumstances.

Even if the child was a silly little brat that ran up to the dog, which he obviously is not, no mother with a child that is badly injured & traumatised needs to be told this or be told how to feel about the dog at this moment.

Hopefully the child will come out of this ok mentally & physically & kind words to this effect is all she needs right now.

The rest can be sorted later, including the fate of the dog.

Bravo Christina!

And I also agree with the point above about needing to accept that children and dogs are both a bit unpredictable at times. Education of kids is important, but supervision of dogs and kids is still needed.

I have 2 dogs, both very good with kids. Even so, if a child is near them, I have my hand on the collar. I am saying sure she's friendly you can pat her - but I am also ensuring the pat is a gentle one and the dog knows I have the situation under control. I believe it is my responsibility, in this situation, to protect both the child and my dog.

There are still risks. Life comes with risk. What if my dog got away from me? Or escaped our yard?

If my dog hurt someone's child like this I would be devastated. What's the alternative - no dogs? No kids? We do the best we can and hope it's good enough.

We can judge all we like, but it won't change what happened. I don't envy whoever is investigating - everyone involved must be distraught and it would be a harrowing process to work through.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Zug Zug

[mantis]

oops didnt read above posts. I agree, I have empathy for everyone in this situation.. I hope you wont be asking for this dog to be PTS though in all honestly your own son is your responsibility.. (I am not being rude or insensitive just honest).

I see that remark as being rude & insensitive & quite stupid under the circumstances.

Even if the child was a silly little brat that ran up to the dog, which he obviously is not, no mother with a child that is badly injured & traumatised needs to be told this or be told how to feel about the dog at this moment.

Hopefully the child will come out of this ok mentally & physically & kind words to this effect is all she needs right now.

The rest can be sorted later, including the fate of the dog.

Agree. It is totally the dog owners responsibility. An even tempered dog doesn't just snap. If I take my dog to someone's house or stall in this case, how my dog behaves would be totally my responsibility. If there are kids around, it would be my responsibility to ensure that my dogs don't harm them.

I am sorry but I disagree with that and feel in this day and age "everything" is lumped onto the dog owner where in many cases these incidents could have been avoided with some good parental education for children how to behave around other people's dogs. We don't know the exact circumstances of this case, but if the dog was leashed and under handler control, there is no need for a child to be within a close proximity of the dog with the assumption that the dog is ok.

It's getting worse by the day in general where parents allow their children to rush at and want to pat everyone's dog, then blame the dog owner when it turns to s&*%. As a child, I went to many shows with my nanna, she was an exhibitor and my mum was a trainer/handler and the golden rule I was taught from an early age was to leave other people's dogs alone, don't approach them and don't pat them because they can bite. It wasn't about blame, it was about proactive bite prevention management for children in those days I am talking 40 years ago now, but the system worked and being raised to respect what a dog may be capable of and learn the truth of potential dog behaviour didn't effect me or cause me to fear dogs, quite the opposite in fact.

We were taught with our own dogs never to stare them out at close range, never to blow in their face or poke at them stupidly etc, we were taught the good and bad things about dogs and to respect an unknown dog's personal space and I have to be honest to say that many of these incidents involving childen had the children been taught the old school rules that I learned, most of these incidents wouldn't have happened. Putting dogs to sleep and having dog owners charged with offences after the fact doesn't undo the pain and trauma inflicted upon a child, but preventative manangement with proper eductation does prevent many these terrible situations occurring in the first place, it's not about right or wrong, it's about protecting childen from the vulnerability of suffering injuries from dogs when we are dealing with animals who can be unpredicatable. No dog is 100% bullet proof and no child IMHO should ever be led to believe that they are for my 2 cents worth.

Excellent post, I am sick of the dog/owner always being to blame no matter the circumstances. People should control their kids, like responsible owners do their dogs.

[Zug Zug]

You might be missing the point I think. If what we've been told is correct, this little boy was in his Mum's gazebo, along with several other children. The dog was brought in by the dog's owner.

I have heard of other situations where kids have scaled fences to enter a dog's yard etc. and in a situation like that I think your point may be valid.

[Rebanne]

You might be missing the point I think. If what we've been told is correct, this little boy was in his Mum's gazebo, along with several other children. The dog was brought in by the dog's owner.

I have heard of other situations where kids have scaled fences to enter a dog's yard etc. and in a situation like that I think your point may be valid.

It was also said the child was told to stay away from the dog by the dog's owner which the Mum denies was said. If true why did the owner take the dog into the gazebo? Where they invited in? Did they ask to borrow shade as often happens?

Like it or not we have only heard one side of the story. And no offense but it is a biased side, same as if the dog owner was on here telling their side. Emotions, understandably, are running high, every single person in the area would have heard, seen something different and all would believe they are telling the truth.

I hope the child recovers 100% physically and mentally.

[Dobecrazy]

wow.. I still dont see my post as insensitive in fact I stated that I have empathy for both sides.. I was merely pointing out to the childs owner that her child is her responsibility which I am sure she knows but still..my post was not stupid because at the time of my post I had no details at all of how the attack "allegedly" happened. Settle down.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Dobecrazy

[m-sass]

oops didnt read above posts. I agree, I have empathy for everyone in this situation.. I hope you wont be asking for this dog to be PTS though in all honestly your own son is your responsibility.. (I am not being rude or insensitive just honest).

I see that remark as being rude & insensitive & quite stupid under the circumstances.

Even if the child was a silly little brat that ran up to the dog, which he obviously is not, no mother with a child that is badly injured & traumatised needs to be told this or be told how to feel about the dog at this moment.

Hopefully the child will come out of this ok mentally & physically & kind words to this effect is all she needs right now.

The rest can be sorted later, including the fate of the dog.

Agree. It is totally the dog owners responsibility. An even tempered dog doesn't just snap. If I take my dog to someone's house or stall in this case, how my dog behaves would be totally my responsibility. If there are kids around, it would be my responsibility to ensure that my dogs don't harm them.

I am sorry but I disagree with that and feel in this day and age "everything" is lumped onto the dog owner where in many cases these incidents could have been avoided with some good parental education for children how to behave around other people's dogs. We don't know the exact circumstances of this case, but if the dog was leashed and under handler control, there is no need for a child to be within a close proximity of the dog with the assumption that the dog is ok.

It's getting worse by the day in general where parents allow their children to rush at and want to pat everyone's dog, then blame the dog owner when it turns to s&*%. As a child, I went to many shows with my nanna, she was an exhibitor and my mum was a trainer/handler and the golden rule I was taught from an early age was to leave other people's dogs alone, don't approach them and don't pat them because they can bite. It wasn't about blame, it was about proactive bite prevention management for children in those days I am talking 40 years ago now, but the system worked and being raised to respect what a dog may be capable of and learn the truth of potential dog behaviour didn't effect me or cause me to fear dogs, quite the opposite in fact.

We were taught with our own dogs never to stare them out at close range, never to blow in their face or poke at them stupidly etc, we were taught the good and bad things about dogs and to respect an unknown dog's personal space and I have to be honest to say that many of these incidents involving childen had the children been taught the old school rules that I learned, most of these incidents wouldn't have happened. Putting dogs to sleep and having dog owners charged with offences after the fact doesn't undo the pain and trauma inflicted upon a child, but preventative manangement with proper eductation does prevent many these terrible situations occurring in the first place, it's not about right or wrong, it's about protecting childen from the vulnerability of suffering injuries from dogs when we are dealing with animals who can be unpredicatable. No dog is 100% bullet proof and no child IMHO should ever be led to believe that they are for my 2 cents worth.

I agree and disagree. Parents are responsible for educating their children on the appropriate way to approach and interact with dogs and need to monitor their children when they are with dogs. At the same time, a dog owner has no business taking a dog that may attack a person (child or otherwise) to a public event, especially without a muzzle. Regardless of whether the child did something that triggered the dog to attack or not, the owner of the dog had the responsibility to protect both her dog and anyone the dog may interact with. A dog that is not solid around children should not have been put in a position where it was taken in to a small, partially enclosed environment (such as a marquee) with children and the owner should not have allowed the child to approach the dog. Unless that child did something terrible like poke the dog in the eye, pull it's tail or something else to hurt it (and I find it difficult to imagine that this was the case) there is absolutely no justification for the dog attacking him and the onus of responsibility is entirely on the dog owner.

I don't disagree with the situation of taking a potentially reactive dog into an area where children are if that's what happened, the dog owner in that case took a risk by doing so but on the other hand, the dog may have been at a safe distance away from the children and the child approached the dog, in that case from my childhood education, I wouldn't have done that by placing myself in a vulnerable position to get bitten, especially at shows I remember as a child when people were moving dogs around we were taught to step back out of the way.

I am thinking how things have changed when we would get into massive trouble for approaching someone's dog and if children did so 40 years ago, the dog owner would abuse the child's parents for lack of parental control like a protocol of what was required on a child's part around dogs to best prevent bite potential, nowdays in many cases, children are often allowed to do as they please like "oh here comes a dog, so I will approach and pat it", we were taught to move away from the dog and give it some space. It's much easier to teach a child to keep a safe distance away from a dog than it is to teach a dog not to bite a child and if more children were taught the protocols I was taught, the less children would get bitten IMHO.

I agree that people tend to blame the dog when they should blame the parents of the child for letting them approach an unknown dog however, assuming the information is correct that this dog was on a leash and by its owners side then the the onus is on the dog's owner to say "please don't approach my dog" if their dog would not be comfortable with it. Had the child run up to a dog whose owner wasn't present and able to prevent the interaction then that would be a different story.

We don't know the exact details in this case, but in general my belief is that children should be taught not to approach other people's dogs in the first place. The amount of times which I might add is increasing in frequency as the years pass, mothers allowing their children to run up to unknown dog walkers to pat their dogs is such a dangerous practice that makes me shudder to think of potential consequences. The dog might be HA or fear aggressive and perhaps should wear a muzzle, but it's too late when an incident has taken place to undo the trauma suffered which could have easily been avoided with a better level of parental education.

Not long ago, I had a little girl run over to me wanting to pat my dog and her mother abused me for telling her no she couldn't pat him because he has never been exposed to a little one just over head height. I don't expect my dog would bite a child, but I don't want to place myself or a child in that position, but the scary bit is, this little girl and mum were sitting on the grass 20 metres from the walk way where I was, she saw my dog, jumped up and ran straight towards me, mum sat there watching her without a word said, even if my dog play jumped, he could have knocked the little girl flat on her back or scratched her with his front paws, the little girl just kept coming at full steam until I yelled NO and then mum got up and wandered over. This type of parental education allowing children to do what happened here isn't an isolated incident and similar things have happened to me too many times. The parents who allow this behaviour seriously need to re-evaluate their child/dog education programs to prevent disasters that are waiting to happen, it's no wonder some children get bitten by dogs and the sad thing is IMHO, it's all so easily preventable.

Edited April 18, 2012 by m-sass

[m-sass]

ETA: Everyone always harks on about the olden days. In the olden days that I remember, dogs with bad temperaments often never got the chance to even grow up. In the dog world I think we tolerate too much sometimes. Puts flame suite on.

Megan, the difference in the old days in this situation is there wasn't the litigation we have have now so if a child got bitten by a dog, not much happened, bad luck basically. Prevention was higher on the agenda back then to protect children from protential bites and some people I am sure in this day and age think having a dog owner charged and their dog PTS fixes the mess, it doesn't, and it doesn't reduce the pain and suffering one little bit for the child when the dog owner receives a fine and an order to send the offending dog to the bridge, blame and litigation for the child's sake is not of any benefit to the injured child's welfare in the slightest, so IMHO the importance is to prevent a child from suffering trauma in the first place with good parental child/dog education that most effectively creates preventative measures as the priority.

Edited April 18, 2012 by m-sass

[Zug Zug]

You might be missing the point I think. If what we've been told is correct, this little boy was in his Mum's gazebo, along with several other children. The dog was brought in by the dog's owner.

I have heard of other situations where kids have scaled fences to enter a dog's yard etc. and in a situation like that I think your point may be valid.

It was also said the child was told to stay away from the dog by the dog's owner which the Mum denies was said. If true why did the owner take the dog into the gazebo? Where they invited in? Did they ask to borrow shade as often happens?

Like it or not we have only heard one side of the story. And no offense but it is a biased side, same as if the dog owner was on here telling their side. Emotions, understandably, are running high, every single person in the area would have heard, seen something different and all would believe they are telling the truth.

I hope the child recovers 100% physically and mentally.

Of course we don't know the whole story.

But whether or not they were invited to share the shade is not important I don't think. I may invite a person to visit my home - but if that person comes over and then beats me up with a baseball bat they can't say 'well I had her permission to be there'. Because that permission always implies a certain level of expected behaviour (in this case from the dog).

One of the sad things here is that these people are possibly friends, and it is very likely that the person was invited into the gazebo on that basis.

This thread has become quite divisive and I think that is unfortunate. I suspect it is very likely that both the mother of the young boy and the owner of the dog have followed this thread, and wisely stayed out of most of this discussion.

To both of those people I would like to say this - I really feel for both of you. You must feel awful about what has happened. I hope that you are both able to heal and move on from this awful incident. While there has been a lot of talk in here about who is considered to be at fault in some way, no-one here believes you intended what happened and deep down we all know it was an awful accident, and something that has hurt you both.

My aunt's dog attacked me quite badly many years ago. I was hospitalised, although most of my wounds were to my arms and hands (not my face - I was an adult). It caused real tension between us for many years. Then finally, years later, we talked about it. She still had the dog, but he was old by then. He still wanted to kill me, and on this particular day I was standing in her back room looking out her back window at him frothing at the mouth on a thick chain trying to break away to charge at me. I asked why she didn't put him down. She said she just couldn't do it. She loved him. She wasn't trying to defend it - just trying to explain it to me. Neither of us were angry in this conversation - I remember us both choosing our words very carefully and both being a bit nervous speaking about it so directly. It was a topic we usually avoided discussing. I rarely visited her while he was alive. But on this day I was helping her move some furniture.

I was very relieved when this dog finally died (he injured a few people in the end). I think we were all lucky the injuries weren't far worse. But I did come to realise that she deeply loved this dog, he loved her back, and she felt awful about the things he did.

She died a few years ago, and it was playing on her mind in her last hours, and she apologised to me again on her death bed. Which is just so sad really, isn't it? That it got between us all that time, and obviously played on her mind. It wasn't really her fault - it's just that it happened so fast and she couldn't stop him. In the end she did stop him (she pulled him off me with chains - no easy task) and she did the initial first aid on my hands while I cried. I'm sure she was almost as shocked as I was. I feel a lot of sympathy for her now. I don't blame myself either - it was just that's how her dog reacted and it took us both by surprise.

No-one wants their dog to hurt another person. Of course we all have responsibilities. But we are also all human.

[Cat Woman]

You might be missing the point I think. If what we've been told is correct, this little boy was in his Mum's gazebo, along with several other children. The dog was brought in by the dog's owner.

I have heard of other situations where kids have scaled fences to enter a dog's yard etc. and in a situation like that I think your point may be valid.

It was also said the child was told to stay away from the dog by the dog's owner which the Mum denies was said. If true why did the owner take the dog into the gazebo? Where they invited in? Did they ask to borrow shade as often happens?

Like it or not we have only heard one side of the story. And no offense but it is a biased side, same as if the dog owner was on here telling their side. Emotions, understandably, are running high, every single person in the area would have heard, seen something different and all would believe they are telling the truth.

I hope the child recovers 100% physically and mentally.

Of course we don't know the whole story.

But whether or not they were invited to share the shade is not important I don't think. I may invite a person to visit my home - but if that person comes over and then beats me up with a baseball bat they can't say 'well I had her permission to be there'. Because that permission always implies a certain level of expected behaviour (in this case from the dog).

One of the sad things here is that these people are possibly friends, and it is very likely that the person was invited into the gazebo on that basis.

This thread has become quite divisive and I think that is unfortunate. I suspect it is very likely that both the mother of the young boy and the owner of the dog have followed this thread, and wisely stayed out of most of this discussion.

To both of those people I would like to say this - I really feel for both of you. You must feel awful about what has happened. I hope that you are both able to heal and move on from this awful incident. While there has been a lot of talk in here about who is considered to be at fault in some way, no-one here believes you intended what happened and deep down we all know it was an awful accident, and something that has hurt you both.

My aunt's dog attacked me quite badly many years ago. I was hospitalised, although most of my wounds were to my arms and hands (not my face - I was an adult). It caused real tension between us for many years. Then finally, years later, we talked about it. She still had the dog, but he was old by then. He still wanted to kill me, and on this particular day I was standing in her back room looking out her back window at him frothing at the mouth on a thick chain trying to break away to charge at me. I asked why she didn't put him down. She said she just couldn't do it. She loved him. She wasn't trying to defend it - just trying to explain it to me. Neither of us were angry in this conversation - I remember us both choosing our words very carefully and both being a bit nervous speaking about it so directly. It was a topic we usually avoided discussing. I rarely visited her while he was alive. But on this day I was helping her move some furniture.

I was very relieved when this dog finally died (he injured a few people in the end). I think we were all lucky the injuries weren't far worse. But I did come to realise that she deeply loved this dog, he loved her back, and she felt awful about the things he did.

She died a few years ago, and it was playing on her mind in her last hours, and she apologised to me again on her death bed. Which is just so sad really, isn't it? That it got between us all that time, and obviously played on her mind. It wasn't really her fault - it's just that it happened so fast and she couldn't stop him. In the end she did stop him (she pulled him off me with chains - no easy task) and she did the initial first aid on my hands while I cried. I'm sure she was almost as shocked as I was. I feel a lot of sympathy for her now. I don't blame myself either - it was just that's how her dog reacted and it took us both by surprise.

No-one wants their dog to hurt another person. Of course we all have responsibilities. But we are also all human.

[Cat Woman]

I know a few dangerous humans that need to be seized and locked up.. Can anyone arrange that ??