Stop Barking At Passing By Dogs

[Sylvie]

We are building a new patio at the front of our house. We are on a corner block, so there can be a lot of traffic at dog walking times. We only have the slab on for now and the front yard is not fully fenced yet.

We have started sitting outside, on the slab in the evening with Apollo (9 years old JRT) on a lead sitting with us. He loves it but can be pretty reactive to dogs passing by. I have a box of kibble handy and each time I see a dog coming, I through him some kibble and play with him. That works most of the time, but sometime I am too late, specially if someone is running their dogs. He is easily distracted from calm and quiet dogs, but dogs that are staring at him or running got him pretty upset.

Once the patio is finished and the yard fully fenced, we would like for him to be able to stay with us without getting off at every passing dogs. He does not care about people, cars, skate boards or even motorbikes (except some loud Harleys), but as soon as he smells a dog he is up and ready to have a go. Most of the time he is just lying on his mat, but very alert to every noise or smell. He pricks his ears at most cars, every people passing but does not move. If there is a dog coming, he is up and ready.

Am I doing the right thing trying to distract him the way I do, or does every time I miss a dog doing more wrong than good? Is there something else I could try to get him comfortable and ignore passing dogs?

Thanks.

[sheena]

You could try the LAT (Look at That) Game but you need to start off in a much less distracting environment...one where your dog is guaranteed to be successful & then gradually build on it. Very successful for my dog & others on this forum. But first you need to get into Clicker Training with your dog. :) Here is the link to a previous thread on LAT Look At That Game

[Sylvie]

You could try the LAT (Look at That) Game but you need to start off in a much less distracting environment...one where your dog is guaranteed to be successful & then gradually build on it. Very successful for my dog & others on this forum. But first you need to get into Clicker Training with your dog. :) Here is the link to a previous thread on LAT Look At That Game

Thanks Sheena,

That is what I am trying to do every time we see a dog on a walk, at the beach, .... I don't use a clicker but he responds pretty well the "Yes" marker. As soon as I see him looking at an other dog (and sometime before if I noticed the dog before him) I say Yes and, if I am not too late, he turns and looks at me and I give him a treat. On the walk, when we are far enough from the other dog (other side of the road), he looks at the dog, then look at me, then look at the dog, then me and so on as if to say "I've seen the dog, look there, where is my treat".

But when we are home and dogs are passing in front of the house, I have to call him or say Yes very quickly before he starts to react otherwise the only way to stop him is dragging him inside or out of sight of the other dog. If I am on time he does all right even if he keeps checking on that dog passing until it's gone. The problem is I don't know when a dog is going to show up and there are 3 directions they can come from, so some times I miss.

Well I'll keep trying and may be read "Control Unleashed" again to try and improve.

PS: I might try the clicker, but this little dog is scared of squeaky toy so I'm not sure he'll like that noise.

[sheena]

Have a bit of a read of this PDF file attached to this article I did on Clicker Training for my club Introduction to Clicker Training. The clicker is sooooooooooo much better a marker than a word. Don't have your dog out the front till you think he is trained enough to be able to handle it. Pick a quite time of the day & wait till a dog comes in to view (a long way away) then play the game with him. Even set the scene with someone you know with a dog. But take it very very slowly (baby steps). But make sure he knows all about the clicker first so he understands it. Use it to teach him a few tricks & eventually looking at other dogs & looking back at you will just become another of his tricks. :) If you are making it too hard for him to succeed, then take him away from outside. Just remember....baby steps. Rome wasn't built in a day

[Cosmolo]

I agree with doing LAT but i do believe a verbal marker can be just as good as a clicker- you just have to make sure you don't accidentally use your verbal marker randomly at other times.

Is your goal to leave the dog in the yard when you're not there as well or just when you are there?

[Sylvie]

I agree with doing LAT but i do believe a verbal marker can be just as good as a clicker- you just have to make sure you don't accidentally use your verbal marker randomly at other times.

Is your goal to leave the dog in the yard when you're not there as well or just when you are there?

No, we leave him in the backyard with no road sight when we are not there. He would be on the patio and in the front garden only when we are home and under close watch to start with.

He is very responsive to the verbal marker and very food motivated so if I see the other dogs on time it's all good. I also try to watch his body language and give the marker as soon as he start reacting but I can get distracted sometimes too and that's when I miss the signs.

He seems to like it out there, and hopefully when the fence is up and all the garden hedge grown up he will fill more secured with no need to guard the place.

[fbaudry]

Just my two cents worth, but it might be worth using the marker and treat before he starts reacting; I suppose just rewarding calm behaviour in general.

Maybe some shade cloth along the fence (whilst the shrubs and hedges are still growing) would provide some sort of visual barrier and minimize what triggers his reaction?

[Sylvie]

Just my two cents worth, but it might be worth using the marker and treat before he starts reacting; I suppose just rewarding calm behaviour in general.

When I said reacting I meant noticing an other dog: ears pricked, looking or standing up. But yes rewarding calm behaviour as much as possible too, not with the marker though just a "good boy" and a pat or cuddle.

[The Spotted Devil]

I'd also think about an alternative behaviour not compatible with the barking - for instance lying down on a mat. That's also something you can practice under low distraction.

[Erny]

Remember that rewards/reinforcers are variable in their value, depending on the moment and how the dog feels about it. Sometimes one type of reward/reinforcer (e.g. food treat) is "worth it" and some times they are not - depending on the circumstances. Rather than always relying on only the food to do the job, perhaps also try thinking about some other reward/reinforcer/motivator that can assist in distracting, rewarding and over time assist you in creating a classically conditioned response towards you rather than to the other dogs.

[sheena]

I agree with doing LAT but i do believe a verbal marker can be just as good as a clicker- you just have to make sure you don't accidentally use your verbal marker randomly at other times.

Is your goal to leave the dog in the yard when you're not there as well or just when you are there?

No, we leave him in the backyard with no road sight when we are not there. He would be on the patio and in the front garden only when we are home and under close watch to start with.

He is very responsive to the verbal marker and very food motivated so if I see the other dogs on time it's all good. I also try to watch his body language and give the marker as soon as he start reacting but I can get distracted sometimes too and that's when I miss the signs.

He seems to like it out there, and hopefully when the fence is up and all the garden hedge grown up he will fill more secured with no need to guard the place.

This may be the problem ...you need to give the marker as soon as he starts to look & before he reacts. Otherwise you are marking the wrong thing. Did you have a read of that link I gave you on clicker training??? Sorry I just noticed that someone else has pointed this out. And saying the word "yes" is definitely not as good a marker as using a clicker or whistle. If you read those notes you would probably understand why. When you use a clicker you reward EVERY time you click, even if you click by mistake or at the wrong time. For "yes" to be just as effective as a marker, then you need to treat him every time you say "yes" otherwise it loses it's value as a marker....& that is impossible.

[Cosmolo]

I absolutely disagree that it's impossible to reward each time you say yes- why would that be any different to a clicker? I do agree that it's more likely that a novice handler will say yes without reinforcing than when using the clicker but that certainly doesn't mean it's impossible. My dogs value my verbal marker just as much as any clicker work.

[sheena]

I absolutely disagree that it's impossible to reward each time you say yes- why would that be any different to a clicker? I do agree that it's more likely that a novice handler will say yes without reinforcing than when using the clicker but that certainly doesn't mean it's impossible. My dogs value my verbal marker just as much as any clicker work.

So you are telling me that every time you say "yes" in the company of your dog (you may not even be addressing your dog) you reward. You shape a behaviour, which might have 100 small steps with "yes" all said in exactly the same tone etc. I use the word "yes" AFTER I have taught the behaviour & it may or may not be followed by a reward..it is a marker to let the dog know it has done something the right way, but it doesn't hold the same value for my dog as the clicker does. In the middle of an agility trial, my dog does a lovely contact, I can praise her with "yes", but I wouldn't be able to whip out the treats & reward her.

If you have the time (or if you are really interested)..here is a copy & paste from Karen Pryor's web site

Why Can't I Just Use My Voice?

Karen Pryor's picture By Karen Pryor on 04/01/2005

Filed in - Fundamentals

Clicker training involves shaping behavior in small steps, identifying the behavior, as it occurs, with some kind of marker signal. Dolphin trainers use a whistle; dog and horse trainers have settled on the clicker. But couldn't you just use a word, like "good," or "yes," as a marker signal? And wouldn't it be just as effective?

You can use a word—obedience instructors like the word "yes"—and it will work a lot better than treats alone; but it's not nearly as effective as a click. The evidence from dog training schools that have tried both methods suggests that dogs and their owners learn about 50% more rapidly when the marker signal is a click instead of the word "yes."

The click is easy to hear; words are not. The click is consistent. Words vary from moment to moment and person to person, but the click never changes. The timing of the click is easy to recognize; even beginners can tell if they clicked during the behavior they wanted, or a little too late. But we can't seem to make that same distinction with a word. Maybe clicker classes go faster mainly because people's timing improves rapidly. People who are using a word just don't have the same chance to develop good timing.

Finally, the word "yes" conveys a sense of social approval, not just to the dog but to the person saying "yes." What's the harm, if you are expressing positive emotion? Here's the problem: using a clicker, if you don't get what you had in mind, you just look for the next opportunity to click. Using a word, however, when you can't say "yes" you may feel frustrated and disappointed, and your posture may actually say "no!" The dog feels punished—and immediately the learning slows down or stops. Saving social praise for social interactions, and using a clear-cut mechanical marker signal that means only "you win!" to the dog, can speed up the learning and, strangely enough, remove stress and make the experience more fun for dog and owner, too.

[Cosmolo]

Sorry but i disagree with the article. "People who use a word just don't have the same chance to develop good timing"- I completely disagree with this- i'm not perfect but i have pretty good timing and use a verbal marker. I still think the reason why clicker training seems to work better is because people are less likely to repeat it accidentally in training without following through with food. That doesn't mean the same can't be done with a verbal marker.

I truly believe that dogs understand context VERY well and that hearing me say yes to my husband (in a completely different tone to what i use in training and without training context and training cues) does not even register to them as a reward opportunity. They don't even notice which means there is no reduction in the value of the marker because they haven't noticed the word was even said.

I have videos of some amazing shaping sessions with my dogs that are proof enough for me that a verbal marker can be just as effective as a clicker. I have had groups of students divided in half, with one half shaping with a clicker and the other group with a verbal marker- there is no consistent difference between the groups (i have done this with about 30 groups)- the differences relate to MANY other factors relating to the skill of the handler but the clicker groups were no more likely to achieve a better result than the verbal marker groups.

It's just my opinion and i respect you feel differently. But i'm not just making something up and running with it- this is based on my experience.

[sheena]

That's good Cosmolo that it works for you but it is fairly clear that "yes" is not working for the OP.

[Cosmolo]

And I would suggest it's far more likely to be a technique issue rather than simply changing the marker.

In addition the dog is sensitive to noise so the clicker may be more challenging than usual.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Cosmolo

[huski]

I agree with you Cosmolo.

With both daisy and wiz I use a verbal marker rather than a clicker.

There are benefits to using both, but I don't find any disadvantage to using a verbal release marker. I also have a terminal bridge word that says to the dog they have got something right and a reward is coming (I use good).

I have shaped everything I've taught my dogs with a verbal marker. Heel work, change of position, scent discrim, retrieves etc. I have never had a problem caused by the fact I use a verbal marker not a clicker.

Edited February 22, 2014 by huski

[Sylvie]

Thanks everyone,

I am sure it would be easier (and probably clearer for the dog) with a clicker.

It is funny because, before having a dog myself and reading this wonderful forum, I always thought clicker were only used by professionals or to train dogs in circus. I would never have thought of getting one to teach my dog to stay quiet on a patio! I am also pretty sure my husband will think I am getting nuts f I get one. He already thinks that using treats is cheating. Well we'll see how I go.

My main point is to try and get Apollo as comfortable on the terrace as possible, so for now we play tricks (he does not play with toys or anything else but food!), he got a bone every then and then and plenty of treats when dogs are passing.

When we first get out he is very alert checking every corner, checking every noise, following every cars, ... After maybe 20/30 min he settle down enough to sit or lay down, not bothered by car noise but still looking at everybody walking pass checking if there is no hidden dogs. And standing up if there is a dog and that's when i get the treats out.

I am also trying to socialize him a little bit more. I am going back to agility with him (we stopped when his brother started to get sick last year). I have been on the beach a few times. We hardly do enough in that way but it is hard to find places where dogs are accepted and it is not to crowded with dogs.

[sheena]

I have a "motion reactive" dog...mainly reactive to other dogs running/playing etc. She was so bad that I used to have trouble keeping her on course during an agility run @ trials & sometimes she would just take off to round up the other dog on the next field. Outside the ring at the start line she was like a Tasmanian Devil. I trained her out of it, by playing the LAT game using high value treats & a clicker. She was already familiar with the clicker & eventually the LAT game just became another of her "tricks", so that when she would see another dog she would turn her attention to me. Sometimes when we first arrive at an exciting environment, I have to play the game for a few minutes to settle her down. Now I take her mat along & am teaching her to stay on the mat & relax, while everything is going on around her. :)

[Amax-1]

Sometimes when we first arrive at an exciting environment, I have to play the game for a few minutes to settle her down. Now I take her mat along & am teaching her to stay on the mat & relax, while everything is going on around her. :)

That's because the dog has never learned consequence for the wrong behaviour. If corrections were used in conjunction with positive reinforcement, you wouldn't need to settle her down with the mat etc when a dog is trained using methods incorporating double reinforcement.