Innotek Dog Collars

[KitKat]

Stormy... ;)

[Sparty]

you just cant please some ppl, and we all know how well the positive only apporach to kids has lowered the crime rates ......

I remember visiting a friend of my mum's, while they were talking her son came up and interupted she said no deal mummys talking, he reached out and slapped her hard on the face to get her attention... i wonder what a mother dog would do to her puppy in a similar situation??

[mita]

you just cant please some ppl, and we all know how well the positive only apporach to kids has lowered the crime rates ......

You're right...the positive approach to learning behaviour...for both children & dogs...is frequently misunderstood to mean negative things have no place. That is so far from the truth.

In relation to children, one key aspect is their learning the notion of CONSEQUENCES that will follow their behaviours. And unacceptable behaviours are followed by things the child does not like....for example, the loss of some privilege.

But it's important that the child be made aware that in behaving in a certain way....it's the child himself or herself who is CHOOSING the consequences. So if they choose to behave acceptably, good things happen. If they choose to behave unacceptably, then things they don't like will follow.

Similarly with dogs....positive reinforcement only works if there's an opposite...negative reinforcement. Like when teaching small dogs not to jump up...they're first taught that all the good things they like follow when their bottoms are on the ground. If they jump up, their owner turns back & totally ignores them....both of which they hate.

This means that training of dogs also covers both positive & negative consequences. And it's up to people to research carefully what's involved with those electronic dog collars....& make their own decision. I like the way there's a warning buzz before the whatever (zapp?). That in itself is a good sign....giving the dog something to learn to react to before any zap.

Edited May 12, 2005 by mita

[SamAdams]

I've been in dozens of these conversations and they almost always go the same way.

1. People with next to no experience with the tool hate them.

2. Those people say that the tool is cruel.

3. They base their opinions on emotions rather than logic and reason.

4. They often approach hysteria in their quest to "badmouth" the tool.

5. They won't listen to facts.

6. They have some idea about how the tool is used, and it's usually one they've heard, rather than seen.

7. They may have seen an Ecollar used but it was an older model, not the modern tools available today.

8. They use the phrase "zapped into submission."

9. They talk about pain.

10. They talk of their experience with dog training which is usually very limited, often only to a couple of their own pets.

11. They continue in their beliefs no matter what information is presented to them.

Now on the upside. People with open minds learn something about the tool. Many new users are converted or at least inquire as to their proper use.

Lou Castle,

The reasons you describe as to why people don't like the collars are so true! But I think those reasons could be described to so many more scenarios. BSL for one.

Sam

[poodlefan]

In my limited experience, the loudest screams about the cruelty of E-collars come from people who have never seen one, never felt the level of stimulation one provides and are the most unlikely to have seen one used correctly. The same people also scream loudly about prong collars while cheerfully advocating use of the halti - another training tool capable of inflicting great (and permanent) injury on a dog.

I do not use an e-collar or an electronic containment system on my dogs. However, I would not reject the prospect of using one if I felt it necessary or desirable. I rate the stimulation provided as akin to sticking your tongue on a big battery.

My view is don't knock it till you've tried it - or at least seen one in action.

I advocate the use of positive training methods. However I am not a 'purely positive' trainer. When an advocate of purely positive methods can tell me how to train a dog not to do something in my absence (eg. bark, dig, fence jump), I'll be very interested.

Edited May 12, 2005 by poodlefan

[Guest GlendaME]

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Edited June 2, 2005 by GlendaME

[MonElite]

it appears that this forum is a Mecca for problem dogs who do need such devices.

At least we admit it

[KitKat]

Hehehe....there are even a number of people who work for the RSPCA who have these type fences/collars...unfortunately they have to keep quiet as if it's a dirty lil secret...instead of being able to treat it like any other useful tool to keep their dogs safe and sound.

[sas]

To follow up on a previous post, in nz we have electric fences at just about every farm with live stock, the voltage is not high enough to kill the stock unless it has been set up incorrectly.

Animals are not stupid, they touch it once, they don't do it again (generally).

Anyone touched an electric fence before? Little shock. I don't agree with electric collars but a fence is a bit different, isn't it? Sorry I guess I'm kinda of conditioned as I grew up with electric fences, I believe they are fine if managed correctly, good quality and are not high voltage and an animal isn't forced into one.

So the dog wear a collar and if it goes near the fence it gets a shock? At what voltage?

Edited May 15, 2005 by sas

[KitKat]

So the dog wear a collar and if it goes near the fence it gets a shock? At what voltage?

That's right...the collar/control unit is set so that the collar beeps when it gets to a certain distance from the fence, if the dog ignores the warning beep and gets closer to the fence it will get a 'zap'. As to the voltage...i couldn't tell you...i can tell you that it's less then the standard static zap you might get from scuffling across carpet and touching something metal, or touching someone. To me it's very similar to the 'zap' you get from a tennse (sp) machine.

[pastoraleman]

Innotek manufactures three types of these collars. The "invisible" fence, the anti-bark-collar and the training collar.

I believe that used properly, they are all helpful and harmless to the dogs. The problem is if these collars fall in the wrong hands.

There is also some dispute as to whether they are illegal to use in some states and territories duie to the Animal Welfare Act, which losely talks about "electrical devices" being illegal.

[Denis Carthy]

*afton*

I just asked the RSPCA about these and in NSW it is ILLEGAL to use these types of devices!!!

*Denis Carthy*

You seem very confused about your laws in Oz regarding static pulse equipment but the last people to be trusted is your RSPCA, I can only suggest you check up with your state parliaments or whatever you have there.

The RSPCA Oz has already been ordered to pay $100,000 dollars for liable to a static pulse manufacturer, that’s the civil law equivalent of lying. Your state legislation dept are the only people to find out from.

The RSPCA made a lot of money collecting from campaigning and making false statements. What salary is the RSPCA director on out there?, some of that collected will pay him a handsome salary, it's one of the the ways some people 'earn' their money.

Innotek Vs RSPCA Oz.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/fed...t/2002/860.html

Edited May 22, 2005 by Denis Carthy