Steve Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 And I still stand by that without a written contract to prove the agreement Well if thats the way its going to go all the written evidence to show what the agreement was is right here .You can see that the OP had an agreement and now wants to change it. They havent denied making the agreement just not happy now the breeder has come to collect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 No, I'm annoyed because I was hoping that my dog would not be used for another year or two given that he's still mentally young. Since when did dogs become appliances instead of best friends? I'm lost without him sleeping on my bed and sharing my toast. He goes everywhere except work with me. Don't most breeders breed for money? I have a good paying job. Money is no problem for me and doesn't seem right to me when it comes off the back of an animal. I used to work with thoroughbreds, they are all about money and not the poor horses popping out foals year in year out. So why then did you buy this dog on breeders terms if you are so disgusted with the concept ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 And I'm continuing to reply in the hope that someone wanting to enter these agreements does it in writing so as not to egg caught in this mess in the future. Won't be the first or last time someone purchases something in agreement and changes their mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 And I still stand by that without a written contract to prove the agreement Well if thats the way its going to go all the written evidence to show what the agreement was is right here .You can see that the OP had an agreement and now wants to change it. They havent denied making the agreement just not happy now the breeder has come to collect. True, the whole situation wasn't thought out property IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 And I still stand by that without a written contract to prove the agreement Well if thats the way its going to go all the written evidence to show what the agreement was is right here .You can see that the OP had an agreement and now wants to change it. They havent denied making the agreement just not happy now the breeder has come to collect. True, the whole situation wasn't thought out property IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 And I'm continuing to reply in the hope that someone wanting to enter these agreements does it in writing so as not to egg caught in this mess in the future. Won't be the first or last time someone purchases something in agreement and changes their mind In this case having it in writing wouldnt have changed anything - there was an agreement, the buyer isnt denying that, which is legally binding - as legally binding as if it were written and they still want to bad mouth the breeder and make out they are being used and abused Do you think as breeders we dont strike dishonourable people even when we get it in writing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 And I'm continuing to reply in the hope that someone wanting to enter these agreements does it in writing so as not to egg caught in this mess in the future. Won't be the first or last time someone purchases something in agreement and changes their mind I continue to hope that DOL members actually purchase pedigreed dogs from registered breeders. Seems we are both dreamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I know you do. Problem with oral agreements is you haven't got all terns listed. The OP says 'not enough notice given' whereas if all the terms of the agreement were documented and signed you have no arguing out of any little excuse such as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I know you do. Problem with oral agreements is you haven't got all terns listed. The OP says 'not enough notice given' whereas if all the terms of the agreement were documented and signed you have no arguing out of any little excuse such as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) Wikipedia Obviously one party paid a price, knowing / admitting that it was a discounted price; the other party delivered the dog, thus fulfilled their legal obligation as part of the contract. The discounted price indicates that the legal obligation of the other party was not only to pay the agreed amount, but also to provide additional goods and/or services. Based on the nature of this agreement and the goods involved the party that bought the dog for a discounted price would have serious problems (if there is no written document) to proof that the legal obligations would differ from the standards usually adopted for those kind of business. Edited:...spelling.... Edited November 11, 2015 by Willem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridgie_cat Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Just sad seeing so many discussions along these lines. Breeders terms should be a good opportunity for both parties - O gets a top quality dog at a reduced cost, one that would not have otherwise been available, dog lives the spoilt life of being one of probably only 1 or 2 dogs, breeder still has access to lines and breedings they have been planning for generations. The dogs get to live in their forever home from puppyhood, where they may otherwise have been rehomed as young adults to afford the breeders the same opportunity to continue with that particular individual without long term keeping as many dogs (and in my mind that is the big challenge - how to continue improving and planning breedings without having so many dogs that you can no longer enjoy them as pets and family members). It should be a win win win. I would have expected that the number of times a stud in this situation will actually get used would be fairly limited... unless the breeder truly is cranking out litters without any aim for continuing improvement. Perhaps that is an unfair assumption? But I cannot imagine a situation in which a single dog could be useful more than a few times in a breeding program (obviously dependent on the number of bitches available and the quality of the dog, but even then, surely there is a limit to how many litters and puppies one would run on from a single dog, presumably one that is also related to at least a portion of your breeding stock). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I know you do. Problem with oral agreements is you haven't got all terns listed. The OP says 'not enough notice given' whereas if all the terms of the agreement were documented and signed you have no arguing out of any little excuse such as this. That only works if those sort of things are even considered to be important at the time. There are probably a couple of dozen things that should have or could have been included - verbally or in writing but these people were mates and at the time. How often, how much notice, who would pay transport, who would pay vet bills, desexing food vetting etc etc wasnt considered .It was someone doing a mate a favour letting them have a dog cheap in return for a mate allowing them to use him at stud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Just sad seeing so many discussions along these lines. Breeders terms should be a good opportunity for both parties - O gets a top quality dog at a reduced cost, one that would not have otherwise been available, dog lives the spoilt life of being one of probably only 1 or 2 dogs, breeder still has access to lines and breedings they have been planning for generations. The dogs get to live in their forever home from puppyhood, where they may otherwise have been rehomed as young adults to afford the breeders the same opportunity to continue with that particular individual without long term keeping as many dogs (and in my mind that is the big challenge - how to continue improving and planning breedings without having so many dogs that you can no longer enjoy them as pets and family members). It should be a win win win. I would have expected that the number of times a stud in this situation will actually get used would be fairly limited... unless the breeder truly is cranking out litters without any aim for continuing improvement. Perhaps that is an unfair assumption? But I cannot imagine a situation in which a single dog could be useful more than a few times in a breeding program (obviously dependent on the number of bitches available and the quality of the dog, but even then, surely there is a limit to how many litters and puppies one would run on from a single dog, presumably one that is also related to at least a portion of your breeding stock). They can be. In at least one Canine Control, you can't register a co-owned dog without a written agreement. Most of the dogs I know out on co-ownership or breeder's terms were given free. But the terms are what the parties agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Ive seen all types of agreements - some give the dogs away other pay a discount ,one paid full price but got a pup out of the litter etc. Ive seen some go belly up and some of the best relationships broken over them even when they are in writing. One last week. Two breeders agree that a bitch will be leased to have a litter and that both will get a pup for breeding and sales for all puppies other than these two will be halved. Had it all in writing.everyone is excited - every one happy when the bitch has 12 puppies. So puppies are born and a male is kept by one breeder and a female by the other BUT the breeder who was responsible for selling the puppies sold another two puppies from the litter with breeding papers. Thats when it all went to hell. the first breeder expected but never said because she though it was common sense that she didnt want any more of her blood lines sold as breeding dogs this would put too many of that breeding out and she was hopping mad. second breeder said well I supplied a free stud service and whelped the puppies and paid all expenses and she never said I couldnt sell the others as breeding dogs - what's her problem anyway much more money for breeding dogs instead of pets so too bad she wins. So even though it was in writing that bit that was SO important to one breeder was never discussed or mentioned. This has caused a major war and its difficult to see that a 20 year friendship has much hope for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) Still a little gobsmacked that people knowingly take dogs on "breeders terms" and then question why the dog should be bred. Hello? Edited November 11, 2015 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Still a little gobsmacked that people knowingly take dogs on "breeders terms" and then question why the dog should be bred. Hello? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melza83 Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) Just curious, have the breeders assessed the dog to see that he is actually a worthy breeding prospect? Have they spent much time with him? Melza83, have you been doing showing or dog sports with him? Just wondering because I wouldn't have thought a breeder would just call in a 17 month old dog to stud without having done some assessment of him before hand. No assments have been made by them to see if he worthy of breeding with. They never spend time with him. He knows basic obedience but nothing more. I told the breeders that I wanted to show him as soon as he was old enough and they told me that they would have to take him to a relative of theirs to see if he is suitable. Unfortunately for me the only other registered breeder I know breeds whippets. Edited November 11, 2015 by Melza83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*kirty* Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Has he been health screened or DNA tested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melza83 Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 No, there was no kidnapping, I have done the same for friends in the past and not given it a second thought. I did it because I'm a good person and he's a former employee where I work. It was just a verbal agreement, there were no terms on when the dog was to be used or how long he was to be used for. That's why I was asking if I have any rights not to allow them to use the dog in question. They are knowledgeable breeders. I won't be entering into breeders terms again. I feel like handing the dog back to them. Thanks for the advice everyone:) The one thing that to me is that you feel like giving the dog back. Isn't he a part of your family first and foremost? If he were mine after all that time, there would be no way he would be going back. True to that. He is my bff. That would've been a hasty desicision on my part and I'm already missing him so that would've been worse. As he has been crying a bit too, even with the other dogs around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melza83 Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 Has he been health screened or DNA tested? He has no hereditary deseases related to Staffordshire bull terriers. He was tested as a much younger puppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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