Prey Drive Control & Focus..

[haven]

Haven, Loki would be in prey drive when chasing cats, so at least you know that he doesn't have zero drive. I think it's probably inhibited by his fear though.

Yes, I realise that. I figure no dog would have zero drive as there is a survival value, hence I still have hope for him yet

[Steve K9Pro]

YB:

things are going well here Connor is showing a lot of keeness for his toy and im itching to take it out on the road but slowly slowly i have made a plan of distractions at various levels and will work through them all at home first when have hime happily playing and working for his toy with the high distraction at home then i am going on the road as that is where nerves come in so i want prey realy high and him working really well bfore i pout him into a more stressful environment would that be the right way to go

K9: yes, keep in mind the first distraction you need to overcome is the environment though. So maybe an early morning prey session when nothing & no one is around, to show the dog its ok to drop the concern for the new environment, go into prey & all will be ok.

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H":

Steve could you suggest any alternative ways to build? Loki would freak if I tied him out and started waving something around.

K9: anything you do that looks like prey will do, take your dog where it is most confident, inside outside? then drop a rag on the floor, with fishing line attached, walk away round the corner & pull the string slowly, if the dog looks at the rag with interest, verbal priase, "what is that? get it!" nice low tones with a hint of excitement.

If the dog takes a step toward, jerk the rag away & start laughing..

H:

ETA: He will eyeball and chase a cat though, if he is not stressed so I'm hoping there is hope for him

K9: you may find it possible to get a little use from his prey drive, but I cant see it being of any use at times of stress..

PJ:

K9, you said that when the dog is carrying the prey item, they are having drive satisfaction. How about when Jyra is lying on the floor chewing a soft toy, removing the tag, nose, eyes, etc, is that drive satisfaction too? or something else?

K9: I dont ever let the dogs chew toys on the ground... It creates possessiveness & then I need new toys..

It also creates a mouthy dog.

[purplepulse]

I'm loving this thread but some days I feel like I'm preparing for Bathurst with a hyundai Getz.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: Im sure that guy who won the gold medal when everyone else fell off their bikes would encourage you to kee going lol...

[purplepulse]

I will definitely keep going for the sake of the pup & myself but some days I just feeling this girl (20 weeks) is a bit of a couch potato.

Having said that, this method of training is new to me as well (as opposed to working with sheep dogs) I look at it as a trial run for when I get a working GSD in a year or so.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: if you get a working line GSD, this IS the method you need to be using to get that dog to its genetic capability...

Any other method is like driving a Ferrari with block of wood under gas pedal..

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: When doing focus work, up until now, you have taught the dog yto go higher into drive & capture the item, now going into high drive will happen anyway, its time to teach the dog that just speed wont do it, focus is required.

Now its a matter of focus & control that drive.

In bite work, this is where the dog learns to calm down on the bite, develop a full mouth bite & hold calmly.

This can be applied to any dog that is doing a retrieve, SchH etc..

Without a calm full mouth grip, the dog becomes mouthy.

Here is a pic, the dog has just won the item, he doesnt run away to chew it, or to take away from me, he doesnt have a conflict with me because he knows its my toy, & I let him play with it.

The grip is calm, bite deep.

[ness]

Ok I have run into a little dilemma and was wondering what I might have done wrong k9force or others. I thought I was having a great game in high prey drive chasing after her frisbee at the oval, next minute she is off after a truck along the fenceline. Does this mean the value of the frisbee has not been made high enough so that she is totally focused on that or can this just happen because I have awakened prey drive and does it then come down to an issue of focus so that Ness only applies it to the frisbee and not any other moving object that happens to enter her field of vision.

[ness]

Sorry K9 just read your last post - so what is the deal if the dog runs away with the prey item - what does that say?

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: maybe not enough value on the frisbee, or no consequence for chasing wrong item..

[ness]

  K9: maybe not enough value on the frisbee, or no consequence for chasing wrong item..

Oh yes there was a consequence the only other time she tried at 7 months - she got clipped by the car. I don't know the entire story as I wasn't there. She has not tried to chase trucks along the fence at the oval before till this morning - She is now 5 years old. What should I have done? or what should I do in the future? I was lucky enough that there was a fence so I was able to call her back (after which time I noticed that the gate was open and was counting my lucky stars) and I got her chasing the frisbee.

[haven]

In bite work, this is where the dog learns to calm down on the bite, develop a full mouth bite & hold calmly.

Since you brought it up

I wanted to comment on something you mentioned in the other thread about protection training but I didn't want to hijack...

You said something about working your own dog on the sleeve. I realise of course that there is more than one way to skin a cat, but most people say never to decoy your own dogs and that your dog will never be reliable around a person that has acted as decoy, so how is it possible for you? Is it because you work them in prey drive and they are focused on the sleeve rather than on the man?

[Kavik]

I have been a decoy a few times (directed by experienced decoys and with experienced dogs and handlers) and the dogs were fine with me afterwards. With the 'regular' decoys, the dogs certainly knew who they were! They gave them 'the eye' when they saw them, which they did not give me. So maybe it is familiarity?

EFS

Edited November 11, 2005 by Kavik

[haven]

Yes I'd say that could have somrthing to do with it. I'm not saying that once you have decoyed a dog they will want to eat you anytime they see you, just that it has been my understanding that they would be more likely to be reactive to someone who has acted as a decoy then someone who has not.

[Purple Julie]

When we are talking about focus, where is the desired focus - on the prey item or on the handler?

I bought Jyra a new toy today and was wondering whether to use that for prey drive work. It has a rope, tennis ball and handle. The rope goes through both sides of the tennis ball, and has a knot at one end, and the other side goes for a little bit and there is a handle at the top.

I was wondering if this would be an ideal prey item, or if I should stick to the blue, squeaky ball that I have, and have attached a string (shoelace now) to.

Because I have done the frustration/teasing work with the blue ball, Jyra seems to be more excited about it and chooses it over the rope-ball. The other thing with the rope ball is that Jyra grabs the rope more than the ball, but she certainly has a firm grip on it and will play tug, sort of thing. With the squeaky ball, Jyra has as firm a grip on it as she can without squeaking it, so you can imagine, it is pretty easy to get off her (as she hasn't been trained an 'out'). It's still a fairly firm grip, but not enough to squeak the ball. I just need to give the string a bit of a hard tug, and it'll come out. No amount of hard tugs will get the rope-ball off her, her grip is that firm.

Now, as I'm not requiring Jyra to do Schutzhund or retrieving trials, the grip doesn't matter too much anyway, does it?

Also, you have mentioned mouthing the prey item, does that matter if we're not doing competitions where it's not good?

[yogibear]

Its been a busy few days have got connor doing sit drop and heel for his toy with varying level of mild distraction at home so far sit has all been stuff we have already worked through in food drive anyway so the distraction had already been reduced.

Now today im off to the quietpark to have a go at it there there is usually one or tw people walking their dogs and the running club will be around somewhere these things tend to distract connor and stop him wanting food so i will see what happens and report back then im off for the rest of the week so he gets a week of training then hopefully we can get on with it wthout the interruption of oh my god a dg walked past 29900 metres away and i dont like itlol

[Erny]

I'm not saying that once you have decoyed a dog they will want to eat you anytime they see you, just that it has been my understanding that they would be more likely to be reactive to someone who has acted as a decoy then someone who has not.

I have not been involved in the training of "working dog". I have watched a little of it, but by no means enough to render me an expert in any shape, form or degree.

But I have seen training where the final part has been the decoy finishing off each session (without the bite suit/sleeve) with a pat/praise/socialisation with the dog (and with the owner praising as well).

Could it be that a dog who is more inclined to be "watchful" of a person who has regularly acted as "decoy" is that way inclined as a result of the decoy not finishing off this way?

[Erny]

I have been a decoy a few times (directed by experienced decoys and with experienced dogs and handlers) and the dogs were fine with me afterwards. With the 'regular' decoys, the dogs certainly knew who they were! They gave them 'the eye' when they saw them, which they did not give me. So maybe it is familiarity?

If anything, I'd guess it would be "anticipation" .... but perhaps that's what you meant, Kavik?

[Steve K9Pro]

H:

You said something about working your own dog on the sleeve. I realise of course that there is more than one way to skin a cat, but most people say never to decoy your own dogs and that your dog will never be reliable around a person that has acted as decoy, so how is it possible for you? Is it because you work them in prey drive and they are focused on the sleeve rather than on the man?

K9: I do all of the prey drive development, targetting etc in prey drive & do it myself.

There is no aggression in this part of the training. Its like teaching the dog the prey item is the sleeve, not the tug etc..

I use a decoy when I want to add pressure & bring on defence. This is when it gets serious.

PJ:

When we are talking about focus, where is the desired focus - on the prey item or on the handler?

K9: starts on the item, finishes on the handler.

Pj:

Also, you have mentioned mouthing the prey item, does that matter if we're not doing competitions where it's not good?

K9: not really but could be an indication of stress.

[Kavik]

Hi Erny, yes they looked at the decoys out of anticipation. They knew they would get to 'play' with that person. They did not act like that with other people. Just like they know other people they meet regularly, and do specific things with them, they knew the type of interaction they would get with this one.

If you worked the dog with lots of different decoys and did lots of civil work without equipment you may get the problem Haven suggested. But as you said it may have to do with how you end the session. If you end as friends it may not be a problem even then. K9 would be more qualified to answer.