Akayla

I wonder if the popularity of the "labradoodle" wont die the minute it becomes a registered breed? Most of the people I know who went out to find a breeder of these believe in hybrid vigour so thats going to go out the window isnt it :rolleyes: I dont have any issues with new breeds so long as they do the right thing but what are the registered breeders going to do about the BYBs then? The same money makers will go on to find something new to breed and the interest will die. The question. Saying that the labradoodle becomes a legit breed why would I buy one? It wont be shed free, wont be relaxed and easy going so what is the niche? What role will this dog fill exactly?

I agree with Jed and I would consider myself a "new" breeder. The point in breeding is to improve the breed and if you cant do that then whats the point? Going to be hard when someone else is telling you what choices you have to make, especially someone who doesnt know your animals. I can tell you from experience it doesnt matter how carefully you breed (or how reckless if you are a BYB or xbred) there will always be a pup here and there that has issues. Not always the breeders fault some times its the puppy owner. Not just in pure bred dogs but in every single species. Id like them to name one species that doesnt have examples of "bad breeding". The difference is in nature the sickly are quickly killed off. Breeders who make it their job to be honest about any issues leave themselves as the targets. Ive had plenty of experience with xbred dogs too and just as many have health issues. What are they going to do about that?

I shouldnt laugh but that gave me the giggles When I say bias I mean bias between humans. The dog of course damaged or not is only reacting to stimuli. So if we the owners show bias saying that people will just have to be at risk we dont look credible. Save a dog within reason. What would a dogs like thats life be? basically locked in a cage 24/7 unless muzzled and restrained - and even then sounds a bit risky given its level of aggression. There are few people able to reablitate a dog that HA (going off the info I saw here). As much as people have a right to protect their property they have a right to be safe too. Thats where the law comes in. If this was a dog that had bitten someones arm after growling and rushing a fence Id feel different but you know what as always non of us were there so its all just talking. Any one can exaggerate. The dog also may have a genetic reason for the aggression or a health issue. So no amount of training will fix that. Its behaviour (by description only) shows a very OTT aggression with no warning. A dog like that shouldnt be in a yard period. Now a healthy dog will defend and even bite but the behaviour would be different. Im not talking about a normal dog biting someone that has intruded on its property. Again from description this dogs behaviour goes beyond that. All this is just my opinion of course and worth a grain of salt. Hopefully the people involved are honest and not biased.

Hmm wow what an interesting thread First off in regards to the sign or no sign they can also be a liability. One must be careful when advertising they KNOW their dog is dangerous in case they ever need to go to court. Any kind of sign errected that implies that due to the dog it is unsafe to enter does not mean they CANT enter but that the owner could be legally at risk. I agree with most and have no respect for people that keep dogs that are as over the top HA. A healthy animal gives warning first. Non of us were there but by what has been written I would say that the owner of the dog is 90% responsible. There are a few things people can do in an attack situation (assuming they see it coming) but its hardly reasonable to expect most individuals to have such an intense knowledge of canine (and human) behaviour. I understand people defending their dogs ect but in this case given the dog was not secured properly and caused such harm we need to stand accountable and say yes THIS dog needs to be PTS'd and its owner punished by law. If a guard dog who is this violent can attack outside it property at will and is defended it only shows bias.

Oh and RSPCA does not send any problem dogs to DAS what a silly idea! Dogs that are sent to DAS are usually done so as they dont have the room. All dogs sent are recorded in numbers and why. So no they dont suddenly decide after a week its not working ;) They do try work with dogs with issues. BUt lets face it and be realistic they have limited time and space. Not every dog is going to be rehomable. fence jumpers - depends on the specifics, but it certainly isnt going to help the dog is it. Why is the dog jumping, how high can they jump? If they cant say jump a 6 foot fence then they have a good chance as it can be added to the dogs profile they must go to a home (which is checked) that has 6 foot fences. If the dog can easily jump the 7 foot fence... then its not so good. DAS also sends a number of animals to the RSPCA. After all they dont have the facilities for some.

Sorry I havent read the whole thread (as always very long :laugh). I just wanted to add that I think the goverment should help support the ACT RSPCA. Why because the RSPCA does some of the work for the goverment. The RSPCA takes in all puppies (under six months) and all cats and kittens as DAS does not have the facility for this. If the RSPCA closed imagine! Oh and they are the local wild life group too. Im not a supporter of everything RSPCA these days but I do know here they do a major service for the ACT. They also do their best to be a no kill shelter - and have been working on ways to improve this. Their stats show the great work they do. I do know what goes on there lucky me. So the fact that they are running so low is sad. However the RSPCA does have to act like a bussiness in some forms and this is one of them when they need to ask why. There are always ways to improve. Again I certainly think the goverment should be stepping up here. Not even just for the RSPCA but from what I see of DAS I think they could use some more training and funding too. Such a shame that they put our pets as such low priority.

Sorry we missed it. Very disappointed but had a bad reaction to my medication. I hope I get to meet you all next time

I think the importance of human life ect is completely unrelated to both issues. The owner at the show wasnt asking you risk the childs life were they? However you went to an event FOR DOGS and the people there have spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars aswell as countless hours working very hard to get there. I have a 3 year old and I told her quite simply you dont touch dogs that are going into the ring AT ALL! Not only that but for their safety they should ask the owner and listen to any instructions given. That is putting the child first! Im also an artist and even when Im out in public I dont let anyone touch my work. You touch it and dirty it you bought it! No way would I put up with that. Nor would I be pleased if anyone adult or child touched my dog when he was about to go in and got something on it. Extremely disrespectful to someone who just spent a couple of hours brushing a coat. As far as the trampoline goes everyone has a right to privacy and enjoyment of their own backyard. However approaching people can sometimes be hard. Sorry I havent read the whole thread but have you made any contact with them before hand? Maybe work to be friendly in your approach and they will listen? I hope so - nothing worse than bad neighbours!

Actually I look at that sentence and think the dogs most likely were kept in that yard all their lives never getting out. The world outside they perimetre is therefore beyond scary where everything is a threat and because they are non doggy saavy dogs they show wrong un-natural behaviour and launch into an attack without being provoked or giving sufficient warning. Therefore it wasnt the people that did that it was the owners that set the dogs up to fail. Being close to the yard has nothing to do with it. Those kinds of dogs have no sense of how to act or about territory.

I thought that too. Still the biggest jaw drop was when the dog was chased into a toddler! the kid nearly fell over and luckily the dog didnt snap at what it hit, since it actually wasnt looking where it was going, cause it would have been a bite to the face. Some what a rediculously handled event. I hope the people involved were spoken to about public saftey. This coming from someone who was attacked by a large dog when i was young and just last week a pregnant friend was seriously attacked by dogs in the street. No need to panic. Better to deal with it in a reasonable manner.

I think the dogs had to be caught but I cant believe how they went about it. Anyone else notice that the guy chased it so it ran into a toddler who almost fell over? Or that it nearly ran into someone pushing a pram? If that was me and the herded a possibly HA dog into my child, a dog that feels highly threatened and backed into a corner, who later snaps at the ranger, Id be beyond furious! Idiotic to say the least. They could have followed the dogs without trying to go in to a highly populated shopping centre. Waiting till the dog exited would have been better. At the least follow it on foot without placing lots of pressure on the dog so it would move out without panicing. I dont think they handled the dog rough. The way he handled it is quite common in that situation. As far as being in the news goes. Someone getting hurt is news, if there is a chase then all the better for the media I guess. Oh and I know someone who owns a pitty. She is small and a real softie and the male dog adores her. She isnt old though. I did know an old lady that owned Labs though. She would have to get in trainers every week to teach said dog solid recal and heel. She was 90 something. So dont say they dont cause Im sure there is!

Hard to say. Only time Ive had a problem is when I had a bitch that had issues. Once she decided she had it in for my top bitch that was it. This wasnt a scuffle it was out and out kill fighting. The bitch in question was escalating and would launch at a door if she thought another dog was on the other side. We got help. Basically the bitch was extremely anxious and could not live with other dogs. Once she was put in a home where she did not have the need to "compete" she became her normal lovely self. She was an extreme case though. Usually if my other girls have a tiff I find out why. The best way to solve the fight is remove/fix the problem. They generally only growl a bit may show some body language. Thats as far as its allowed to get here.

This is the reaction I get mostly I had one guy totally freaked when I slowed the car down to perve on his GSD. Luckily I spotted the same dog being walked by his gf and managed to get her talking and told her to tell him sorry it wasn't him I was looking at he apparently had been quite weirded out

My dogs are inside when I'm out, then what ever they want when I'm home. My big german shepherd prefers to be inside as often as possible but the lapphund prefers to be outside. We don't walk in bad weather cause my daughter has to come too. She starts school next year so I plan to increase the walks to twice a day. They also always get training and games at home. Usually 2-4 times a day in short bursts plus having to do tricks. I also set up "puzzles" in the yard as I think that mental stimulation is sometimes more tiring than just a wall. We do miss out on a walk due to weather now and then but I think they do alright

mine is a golf utility belt. I bought it for someone who is into golf but they didn't like it. Even had a place for my mobile phone I've also been eyeing off the tool belts in Bunnings.

Ive seen hard corrections given in the armed forces so I get what this guy was trying to do but he sure was crap at it if you ask me. They have a saying. If you have to do it, then do it, but do it once hard - any more than that and you have made a mistake. Ive seen an officer do this with a dog. Its done once. The dog isnt allowed up untill its calm. This guy was making it worse and worse! I cant believe how bad that was. People like that give people who do use corrections a bad name. I can see no reason that that would be helpful. Further more frankly if the dog was that over the top in drive its returned to the breeder or PTS'd. What I saw was a dog that became over stimulated. Then the trainer pushed it past that. Then the dog would have been no good that day. Police/armed forces do have to control their dogs but i think this was clearly over the top and the handler was new, it would have been better for someone more seasoned to have stepped in just to settle the situation and show the guy how to do it. Clearly getting off the animal when its scratching you taught it only to fight harder. Once. Hard. finish. If you cant do that then dont do it at ALL!

You know not all animals in the entertainment industry are treated cruelly. I do NOT agree with this circus and the way they treat their animals. I do NOT agree with mistreating ANY animal. However I have read a fair bit on the subject and spoken to people in the industry and I do not believe all of them are bad and should be painted with the same stroke. When fighting for a cause it never helps to lump everyone in the same boat, because then you lose credit when its shown they do the right thing. Better to focus on the actual problem which is some of these groups use cruel techniques and its those techniques which should be banned. Problem is of course that alot of the worst offenders come from countries where it is more exceptable.

Some people say the same about dogs. Some zoos and Ive heard of a circus that have taken in animals that have been abused. They give them a better life. As far as the tricks go with enrichment programs. They cant give the cheetah a gazelle to kill but they can drag fresh meat behind a truck. They cant always gice them their own species as company but they can give them companionship. It also helps with the care of the animal. Learning to display teeth for example is very entertaining to the public but helps maintain dental hygeiene. Its actually an interesting subject and there are some lovely books available. One important thing exotics do is raise awareness of their wild relatives. Plus in some zoos there is the breeding programs. I would rather an animal in captivity is doing new things and interacting with another living thing than not.

Not that I support zoos having animals but Im suprised that people seem against exotics doing tricks? Im against how they get the animals to do it not the mental stimulation itself! Getting any animal to do something can infact inrich its life as most of you do with your dogs. Tigers, lions, bears ect are all animals that can really benifiet from this. Better than animals locked in small cages with nothing. Of course I dont agree with the practise of training with most of these places. They use cruel measures to make an animal do what they desire. That doesnt mean an animal that performs a trick is miserable.

Yeah his handling of the situation was pretty bad from what i can make out. To start with his body language was wrong. It didnt look like they knew alot about behaviour. I wouldnt have run. I would have either stayed put or moved out slowly and carefully away from the panicing crowd Running and screaming is never a great plan

I dont like either extreme. (WL and SL). I like GSDs that are a good representation. Its hard to explain (especially pumped full of medication ). Im not saying i guess what is right but i dont like dogs that put the dog IMO at risk or the breed. Both SL and WL do this at times. Thats what Im against. Nor do i believe saying oh but I won SL so there are no over active dogs or over built dogs so Im safe. Nor oh I own WL so the temp is perfect and the back is straight so no issues there! Its silly. We are all enthusiasts of the breed and should want whats best for it. Its about time we made at least a token effort to work together since it is the same breed. The thing most newbies get confused over, type. They think but i just want a GSD! One that has sound body and mind. We may not agree on what that is but thats where we need to work together with open mind so we can get a BALANCED view. The hate some SL have for WL and that WL have for SL is shameful if you ask me. Its not the dogs fault we bred them to look that way. Standing there saying my dog is perfect will help no one. IN my eyes my dogs have been perfect but if i didnt put myself and my dogs out there and listen to others in the know it wouldnt take long to slip into an extreme ideal. SL isnt perfect. WL isnt perfect. Neither dog is more perfect. A GSD is a GSD. What prey tell is a good example (thats what we should be asking) given good knowledge and understanding of its history and NOT flicking through a few pictures. I have seen the old pics and more importantly i have seen them in relivant light ie in time order and with genetic explanation of what was being used at the time, what health issues ect plagued them at the time. Did you know about the health issues in the beginning? There were of course quite a few. Certain sires werent cut off so to speak just because they were no longer in fad. Certain lines diminished due to serious illness. Its worth investigating. Ok I love genetics so i would read it anyway but if one is going to argue the type then you need to actually seriously research the line. If you think about it todays terms. How many dogs you would need, how many set backs ect you would incur in creating a breed as popular as the GSD. It wasnt done in a day or with one "look". Thats the issue. People look at one photo and deem that what they want. Not the smartest thing to do. I really am neither for or against either. As i said i grew up with WLers. I know the ins and outs and Ive had plenty to do with SL. I know at the end of the day what is considered a good GSD and that JUST THAT (not type this or that) is what we should be working towards. A GSD is a GSD. A good example is that and a bad example is that.

Those of you that are interested. Have a google of "Karl Fuller" - hope thats spelt right. He uses GSDs with his sheep in the original style and his dogs win shows. You also get alot of info about the differences of GSD herding to any other breed. Im not very well so sorry if i dont answer your questions i will come back and read this thread but in the mean time i think "most" of you will find this really interesting

Everything will be fine Just need to go in for a small op. and then have some recovery time so a BBQ would be too difficult i think.

I never said I wanted WL to look like SL. I want GSDs to look like GSDs should. Calling someone elses dogs faulty is no better than what you are accussing me of. Lets stick to facts so we can move forward in the discussion. Just because a dog is SL does not mean its roached and most are not as a good judge will pick up on that in a show anyway. GSDs are not straight backed and they are certainly not dipped so WL breeders that breed specifically for this are just as much in the wrong. If you believe that SL is too "roach backed" then i suggest that argueing against working towards a better standard is helping that cause. WL have plenty of faults too, and some of which WOULD benifiet from different lines. If not a SL breeder than one that at least breeds correct conformation. You dont have to even look in this country to see good examples of this. Again sticking your head in the sand about WL isnt going to help nor is breeding in a smaller genetic pool just because of a term. Really thats the only difference. They all already share some genetic material being GSDs. They ALL have the ability to throw these faults. WL and SL swap sides all the time so its not like its set in stone nor is it like WL would be so negatively effected by SL either.

sorry everyone I am going to have to cancel this get together due to health issues. Sorry. Hope it can go ahead next time