huski

In QLD you can, they still award first, second and third place regardless if anyone quallied. If someone got a quallie even if it was a lower score than someone who didn't quallie, they would automatically place higher. We still placed third at our last trial (had we passed we would have placed first) because only one person got a quallie (they got first place automatically) and the person who came second failed an exercise that was worth a lot less than a down stay... I think it was the SFE.

Ages away Not till the end of next month! Hopefully will give us lots of time to fix our down stays I do not want to go blowing anymore quallies (or first places!) at the last minute on the last bloody exercise ETA: BTW I would love to see a vid of you shaping with one of your furkids! You should do some with the new pup... I think Strauss has a future as a youtube super star

You've never had a dog get distracted or had an instance where you need to get their attention back on you because something else is more interesting? Downside to owning a scent hound I guess... very easy for them to go 'meh scenting is way more fun!' and put their nose on the ground. I wasn't talking about your dogs or what works with your dogs. I was just giving an example of why I mix up the delivery of the reward for my dog, because keeping her guessing and keeping the reward 'schedule' unpredictable makes it interesting and builds anticipation. It's probably not something you've had the need to do if you always carry treats and reward after every command, but if you needed to go some time without giving your dogs a reward, like you do in dog sports like obedience where the dogs will have to comply with multiple commands over a variety of exercises, then their attention waning if you become too predictable may be a problem you run into. How long my dog can go without a reward while still staying in drive (by my definition) is something I focus on a fair bit.

I see people yelling "heel" at their dogs all the time... doesn't do anything to motivate the dog nor does it magically teach them what heel means Feel sad for the dog though This is like the rant I posted earlier in this thread... it is so hard to watch people doing the wrong thing, even after you've said something they are not interested in changing. Heel up is a weird command to give, you couldn't use it in the ring because it's more than one word. FlickMac, I don't personally wean my dog off the reward. I work on the time they can go maintaining drive without needing to be rewarded, and I keep them guessing as to when the reward is going to come.

Hmm, interesting. I don't use treats for every day stuff but when we are training in drive Daisy knows she will always get a food reward, just like a dog who trains in prey drive knows they will always get a prey reward. She never knows when the reward is coming, but that complying with my commands will get it, although it could come at any time from anywhere. I find that if I am too predictable with my rewards she is more likely to lose interest. Keeping the reward 'schedule' unpredictable helps keep her hanging on. Overall she knows when we are TID she will definitely get a food reward, but she never knows when that will be.

We have two girls already but Micha is such a wonderful dog, I don't think I could have more than one boy dog at a time because he is so special to me (not that that makes any sense I am sure!). If I didn't have a dog a male would probably be my first preference. Micha is just so easy to live with! TBH I do a lot of training off leash or with a long line attached so I don't have to hold anything. If I was holding the leash in one hand though it would probably be my right hand. I think my ass got bigger :D

TBH I don't really care, I don't care about sex either, temperament will be the number one decider for me. I wouldn't mind a tri colour and statistically I am more likely to end up with a tri, but I would be happy with either as long as I get a confident drivey pup.

Can you find me one of those millionaire husbands too RS? It shouldn't be hard... we only need one each :rolleyes:

What about a tri and tan and white beagle pair?

LOL Fran I used to be really self conscious about being in the video but 12 months on and 60 odd videos later I'm over that now :rolleyes: I still cringe seeing myself but now it's more due to my shitty handling than anything else :D

Yay so glad to see you here Fran! You must post some videos of Luuka :rolleyes: StaffnToller I really want matching dogs too, I am thinking of getting another dog next year but can't decide on another beagle or a more people orientated/drivier breed. I really really want to see what it would be like to train a beag from puppy hood the way I train Daisy now, I must admit I love having a breed where people don't expect them to be any good or to be able to do dog sports at a competitive level. Although when I get to handle breeds that are more people orientated or more naturally inclined to train like Tollers or Aussies I do get a little jealous!

Corvus do you mean you reward for every command they comply with? I.e. You will ask them to do one thing, then treat or might you ask for multiple commands with a treat at the end? Nekhbet thanks for the further explanation. I get where you are coming from

Bit of a rant from me today! What do you all do when you see someone obviosuly doing the wrong thing with their dog? Using a tool incorrecty, smacking the dog in the face etc? If you've tried talking to them about it... Do you eventually give up and look the other way? Sometimes I just get so frustrated

I'm just going by what the OP has said, I never said you don't use food rewards, I was just asking why a trainer would choose not to use them at all. My opinion in this instance is based on what I and the trainers I work with closely know what will work best with my dog. I'm not trying to teach you about anything - I am simply (attempting to) have a discussion with you. Again, why so defensive? I'm only spending my time asking you these questions because I am interested in your response, not for any other reason, did you stop to think that I am actually interested in your response because I respect your experience and genuinely want to know what/how a trainer would choose not to use food in training? Now it's my turn to tell you to pay attention. I've already said, several times, that food is not a dominant drive for every dog and that there are other drives to work in other than food depending on the dog in question. I too know dogs who will choose prey over food. Just like your Mal would choose prey over food, my dog would choose food over prey... would you persevere with food drive over prey with your Mal in all instances? Again... why so defensive I never said you smack the dog, I just wouldn't want someone bopping my dog on the nose. My dogs definitely don't snatch treats, my Siberian to the point where he won't ever put his teeth on me, he always takes food with his lips I never said that I use that method to teach dogs to take food nicely

I will always be one of the first peope to defend the right to use tools prongs and ecollars Agility Dogs so I get where you are coming from. It does seem like a bit of hypocrisy.

But that is not a problem with food but the way it is being used... we can all agree that no matter the tool, it is all about how it is used. I see people who use all kinds of rewards incorrectly but it is the instructors job to show them how to do it properly. There are many benefits in using a dog's food drive if it is done properly. I am positive there are many ways to train dogs that don't involve food, but I don't agree those methods can work just as well for all dogs. You are welcome to try and get the same level of drive and focus out of my dog with praise and corrections alone as I do witht praise and food next time you are in Brissy :rolleyes: I never said food is the be all and end all, in fact from the very beginning of this thread I said that food is just one of many rewards you can use, but ruling food out in training completely is ruling out a useful and natural drive for many dogs and I don't understand why a trainer would do so. Not all dogs have the same natural drive for prey items or praise as they do for food. How is a dog supposed to know what is appropriate behaviour if they aren't taught so I am not a purely positive trainer but wouldn't tolerate anyone "bopping" my dog on the nose.

Aidan this is the post that made me assume they don't use food.

Absolutely seek professional help - it is amazing what a good trainer can help you do. I also recommend Steve from K9 Pro http://www.k9pro.com.au/index.php I wish I had seen a professional trainer as soon as my dog had started showing aggression. I had some bad advice to wait it out and keep socialising him with other dogs and that just made it worse - you are doing the right thing by seeking help now before the problem gets more out of hand. Dog aggression is a very common problem and if you get good help it's amazing the turnaround you can have with the right support and guidance.

I really wanted to go but I just couldn't afford it money wise or time wise can't wait to hear how it goes!!!

I agree with Dan - with instructional vids I like to see the trick taught to the end. I don't have a problem with luring and I do use it but the real challenge is getting the dog to do the command on voice/hand signal without luring with a treat as it demonstrates they actually know the command.

Nekhbet I wasn't asking Craig, I am asking you. I know people who have worked with him so I am not competely naive as to how his training works. I have already said multilple times that I agree not all dogs will work for food, my question is why rule food rewards out altogether? I dont get why you are being so defensive? Do you disagree that food is a useful tool and that when working with dogs who have a very high food drive it is worth using that to your advantage?

Grace there is nothing wrong with that, I am just curious knowing my own dog and knowing how well food works with her why a trainer would rule that out completely.

yes that's exactly what I am wondering

Nekhbet fair enough but what if you have a dog who is extremely food driven? It's all well and good to say I don't understand where Craig is coming from but please explain what you would do with a dog who is extremely motivated by food and not much all. It's also important to note that "thousands of years" ago you didn't get the range of breeds we did competing in dog sports etc or in fact, doing anything other than what they were originally bred for.

Sounds like it might be perfect for her! Please let us know how she gets on My dog is quite food driven but wouldn't even notice me waving food in front of her nose when she was really distracted, it's not an uncommon problem and something the other instructor should have been able to help you with instead of making you feel bad.