huski

I guess it depends how food motivated your dog is too - like Monelite explained food is a drive and you could technically use it in drive training. I phase out food as I'm training but if we are at obedience I still take some with me and use it occassionally.

I teach my dogs new tricks with rewards like food. I don't think there is anything wrong with it if you use it to teach them something/understand a command. Both my dogs will do a down from a stand without needing a treat to achieve it. I could never have got my beagle to the point she is now without food! Thank dog my club allows it We were always told each dog learns through different things, some dogs like food/toys/praise etc. We are encouraged not to treat as much as we advance so that eventually we don't need to treat at all, or very irregularly.

Don't forget labs are retrievers and they are typically a 'mouthy' breed. Puppies typically go through this stage. As you haven't had a pup before (or recently) its easy to forget that sometimes you need to teach them not to bite. It's perfectly normal. Everytime she nips she "ah" or a high pitched yip and then give her something she IS allowed to chew on like a toy or a bone etc. Alternatively if she is doing it for attention, turn your back on her and ignore her so she learns she does not get your attention in this manner. When you have a puppy its all about patience and time. Don't expect too much of them or you will be setting them up for failure.

maybe we need a timetable - 20 min each dog to save their insanity and how do i sign and pay up? - call the centre or provider PM Seita who started this thread and she will take care of all that for you

I think there are a lot of fenced off leash areas for playing, I don't think we'll have much time for playing during the workshops! Hopefully I can use one of the off leash areas to let Mishy have a run, when no one else is in there. He doesn't get to do that very often

Er... ok. I too thought there were heaps of replies on the check chain topic

Hey... are you laughing at me? :( I am SO not sitting next to spotty, she's mean :D

Me, talkative? Never!

Hmmm I notice you didn't mention Bakari there... Are you indicating that he's already won the award! :p Baraki? Nah, he's an angel :) I definitely couldn't bring Daisy if Bakari is coming, she is so in love with her boyfriend

Anita, I understand where you are coming from. I don't think its impossible to train a dog to a great recall using positive methods only - I know its possible for some people and for some dogs. Do I think its possible for ALL dogs? Not in my opinion. I think that each dog is different and no one method will work for one dog (which is why I'm not adverse to using training tools and use both positive and negative reinforcement in the appropriate situation). I don't think a person can use the blanket statement that all puppies can be taught to walk on a loose leash, for life, with nothing other than a flat collar, because each puppy and yes each handler is different, with different abilities and experiences. I don't think someone is a weak owner or trainer for choosing to use a training tool and using it appropriately under the right circumstances.

Can you please bring Daisy??? :p Let me think about it. Umm... no Micha is the one with the issues anyway. Walking home today a loose dog in our street came charging up to him and he got quite unsettled Little bastard wasn't being friendly either.

Thank god Daisy's not coming, she'd make Mia and Hershey look like angels!

Exactly! Her drive to scent will always override food I found as she was maturing and got to 6-12 months her drive increased a lot and the responsiveness she had as a puppy diminished. Lately I've been training her on a longer lead, and using scenting as a reward so that when I recall her I give her praise and then let her scent again. When she was a puppy we also did the whole stop and change direction instantly, call her to follow me etc and this worked but then she'd pick up a scent and nothing I could say or do would override it. We started using the martingale at obedience school and then on our walks and using it to give her a quick correction when she pulled definitely helped. We do off lead work when we go to obedience club now so obviously she can focus without any tools, its just working on getting that same focus every where we go.

Oh, Nekhbet, I agree 100% that pups shouldn't be trained on any tool when they are that little. I never used any training tools on my dogs when they were little and I never will. Daisy was trained completely with treats and lots of praise as a puppy, and that is how I taught her to walk on the leash to begin with. Daisy wasn't terrible on a flat collar, but as soon as she picked up a scent (and this as she had begun to mature at six months plus) I could put chicken under her nose and she wouldn't look twice at it. Her instinct to scent was much stronger than what I could offer her. I had tried incredibly hard to get her focus as a puppy and in certain places she was great, in new environments not so much - her focus was not 100%. Could it have been holes in my training? Maybe, Micha was the only other dog I'd ever trained and was much more responsive and easier to handle than Daisy. I'm not a very experienced handler, each dog was still a learning curve to me. Maybe that's why it frustrates me when some people go "well you just should have trained her properly as a puppy!" I tried, and got progress, but I'm not perfect and needed some help down the track. But hey - even if I was incompetent and failed at training her at least I put the effort in and got there in the end.

Yet TO seems to think you can train any dog if you have had it from puppy hood without any tools - implying that anyone who can't teach a dog they've had from a young age to walk on a loose leash without tools is incompetent (that's any training tool not just prongs or check chains). We're not all miracle workers or perfect trainers who can accomplish that task without any corrections, or assistance from a tool, when you have a difficult dog whose instinct tells it to pull.

I said all dogs if you have them from puppy hood, just as you said right here: And I never said Sibes and beagles are the only difficult breeds - I refer to them because they are the breeds I own, and are challenging and often dominant dogs that are notorious for not being typically biddable breeds or breeds that are easy to train. I know you are just speaking from your own experience ;) but we can't all be the "special" owners that can perfectly handle a dog with no assistance from training tools of any kind. That's great that you have tried it yourself - but that doesn't mean its true for everyone, does it? Naturally training tools are just that and their effectiveness depends on the person using them. You have implied several times throughout this thread (and not just with the above bolded quote) that you think you are pretty darn clever for being able to handle and train dogs with absolutely no training tools whatsoever. Well done to you! I guess those of us who have needed the assistance of training tools clearly fail as dog owners. I had my two from puppy hood and despite my efforts to teach them to heel with just flat collars (and I only ever used flat collars when they were puppies) I did need extra help from a martingale to get us over the line I fail to see where the big deal is. The both walk nicely on the leash now.

rude You totally LOL'd

I hope you do never have to use one tollersowned - but not all dogs respond to all training tools and I have one of those dogs. Of all the training tools i have used (flat collar, martingale, check chain, gentle leader, normal harness, no-pull harness), the prong was the only one that worked, and i only had to use it for a small amount of time. Now i use it when we go for a walk in a place where neither Zero nor i have been before - because he hasn't been tested in all situations (i'm trying to socialise him to most situations) and i want to know that i have complete control over him should something happen. Have you owned many different breeds of dog from different situations? Zero is an exception in that he was abused by his previous owner (and he is a husky, a notoriously stubborn and independent breed) but because of the good experience i have had with the prong collar - should i ever have another dog that needs it, i wouldn't hesitate to use the prong collar again. Pfft Shell - don't you know, all dogs if you have them from puppyhood can be trained without ANY tools Sibes and beagles especially, they are such easy breeds to own and train to heel after all. very biddable. very eager to please

Well surely that is the fault of the owner, not the training tool. As many of us have posted in this thread, there are some of us who can take the tool off and not have the dog pull. It's about getting to that stage and sadly not all dog owners are perfect and can manage that using purely positive training, or without any assistance from a tool.

technically but the workshops are outside underneath a big training centre thingy... have a look on the camp tailwaggers website: http://www.coolangattapetmotel.com/ in the options menu chose "Camp tailwaggers holiday cabins" and then scroll down for the pics of the training centre.

gads, I'm only going to the day sessions so you bring your dog with you for that time. I'm taking a crate to put him in, but I'll be sitting next to it

Monah I'm old and I'm attending Sat. I hope there is room to move through to give dogs space. Pffft - neither of you are old! If it wasn't for Spotty I would be the youngest one there, now that's embarrassing

Then go and learn to use one. Right because i dont know how to use a check chain? Perhaps you should go learn how to train a dog to not pull without any equipement? Sorry to burst your bubble but they are merely a temporary control, one that is no different to a halti or gentle leader, the dog immediately starts pulling as soon as the prong or whatever is taken off.......what has the dog learned about not pulling? Uhh nothing! I could take my martingale off my Sibe and he would still walk on a loose leash, all I did was use it along with a training program to help me get to that stage. Similarily with my beagle, the martingale didn't stop her from pulling on its own but along with a training program, it assisted in teaching her not to pull. A training tool is just that, a tool, and most won't work unless you put the effort into a training program to go with it.

I don't think Midol sees prongs or checks as training (I certainly don't) - just training tools to aid you with your training program. I have to use a martingale with my dog (for safety as he can slip flat collars) but I also find it useful as a tool when we are training, if I need it (which isn't very often). I wouldn't use a check on a young puppy either, but I won't pass judgment on people who need the assistance that tools can give them. Some dogs are more difficult than others and not one way will fit all dogs. ETA: Kelpiepupmum, yep I was referring to the chain martingale but I also use the 'all material ones' which are very stylish

Hi grechy I've used check chains with no issues. Some people still think of them as "choke chains" - but used correctly its more about the dog associated the sound of the chain being 'checked' than choking or hurting him. I think there are certainly people who use them incorrectly - as with any training tool - but used properly under the guidance of a trainer and there should be no worries. The only reason I don't use them often now is because I find martingales more effective (think half check chain, half collar) because you can adjust it to sit firmly under the dog's ears, high up on its neck and I found that easier to use.