ricey

Whatever; dogs bark, that is what they do, and is what we expect them to do. And to de-bark them is inhumane. I doubt that a dog's bark carries more because it is isolated. Measure it; it will be the same intensity. To suggest that it is somehow louder because the dog is not in suburbia is just emotional and simplistic crap. We humans have relied on dogs barking for thousands of years. To selectively sever the vocal chords of a couple of dogs in rural Oregon because they did what was expected of them is just horrible. I don't have a problem with the dogs owners having to cough up an amount of money to compensate their overly sensitive 'neighbours' (although I do think that $240,000 USD is a bit over the top) but I have a major problem with anyone on DOL that thinks that de-barking is appropriate in the circumstances described. De-barking is abhorrent, and I shudder to think that any of us think that it is OK. If you think that the sentence handed down is OK and appropriate, then you think that the de-barking is OK. ricey

Me, I figure the poor dogs get done over, as usual! De-barked!! What a barbaric practice that is! I Googled "Rogue River, Oregon" where these dogs live. It has less than 5 humans per square mile, and is considered to be semi rural. This is not like having your suburban neighbours in Carlton's German Shepherd barking in his 300 square metre town house's back court yard. And nearly a quarter of a million dollars USD to compensate them. Life's tough, ain't it? Wouldn't you like to get quarter of a million bucks because your neighbour has a noisy pet? Really, I am not there in their back acreage so I do not know how bad this actually was, but I'd invite the Kreins to come spend a few days at my house in suburban Bayswater WA 6053 and listen to my neighbours dogs. Me, I like having dogs around but I'd bet the Kreins would be phoning their attorneys within 10 minutes. As they say, "only in America" ricey

Spondylolisthesis/spondylitis/spondo whatever is not necessarily a diagnosis that means very much at all for a lot of dogs. You can have what looks like a very spikey bone spur on a human vertebra and yet have no symptoms at all. Bone spurs are bone and they do not necessarily hurt at all unless they are poking into things that do feel pain. Perhaps the diagnosis of elbow arthritis is more relevant. When my 14 year old pit bull Hobbes started having difficulty jumping down from the couch or getting up and down the 4 steps into the sunken lounge (how 70's is the concept 'sunken lounge' LOL?), I had my vet investigate him and take a few scans. Yep, osteo arthritis of most major limb joints. Hobbes has been on long term daily Metacam since his diagnosis and the difference is remarkable. It has taken 8 years off him. He prances about like he used and he even ran down and killed a rat a few months ago. While I am not suggesting that Hobbes' treatment is the appropriate treatment for your dog, I would recommend having him fully assessed as sometimes a bit of pain cover or anti-inflammatories is all that is required. Long term daily Metacam treatment is not cheap however; but it made such a difference to Hobbes that I would have sold one of my Mitsubishi Evos to pay for it if necessary. Cheers, ricey

That is a very strange looking puppy, but sort of cute in a weird way? What ANKC breed of dog is it? Just joking; cute little kitten you have there. ricey

It's not BSL and you know that. It is BSL, and if you can't realise that, then I'd quietly suggest that you require help in interpreting the real world. Because of their breed, they are subject to legislation in most states that requires them to be muzzled at all times in public; could you please tell us why that legislation is not "breed specific"? ricey

And the circle game goes on and on; round, round, what goes around, comes around.... The thing is, WIW and all the other sad apologists can continue with their "this will never affect ANKC breeds" mantra, but they are wrong. That they are wrong has been proven time and time again in other jurisdictions, and in Australia. Me, I am sad that their chosen breeds will be affected by BSL, but I am only sad for the dogs. I am not sad about WIW and all the others like him. They will get what they deserve. Its just a pity about their dogs, as the dogs deserved better. I challenge any of you to show a jurisdiction that implemented BSL for non kennel club recognized breeds that didn't follow it with kennel club breeds. Just like Australia did. ricey

Hi all, after much consideration around 9 years ago, I had both of Hobbes front leg dew claws removed. I did not have to give consideration to his rear dew claws as he did not have any. Hobbes is now a 13 year old American Pit Bull terrier and he does not move as quickly as he used to 9 years ago; back when he was 4 years old he was an incredibly active athlete of a dog. He ripped out both of his front dew claws twice in less than 4 months just chasing his ball. I'd take him to my vet; they'd bandage him up and 3 months later he'd do it again. And again..... So my vet suggested having his dew claws removed as a permanent fix. I was not that keen (I'm a physiotherapist and I think that most parts of us and our dogs are there for a reason and should not be cut off) so I looked into the issue in a bit of detail. If Hobbes actively used his front dew claws for manipulating objects or climbing trees, he'd have kept them. But he didn't, so they got lopped off. And I believe he is better for not having them. I have no regrets about having Hobbes' dew claws removed; I think that on balance, it was the best for him. However, I have huge regrets about having him neutered and I will never ever have a dog of mine neutered or spayed again; if you are a responsible dog owner, there are far better ways of ensuring that that your dog does not cause unwanted litters. You do not need to remove their testicles or their uterus and ovaries. These bits are important. You just have to be a little more careful. That's called 'responsible dog ownership' "cough" and isn't that what we all want? ricey

What work do Amstaffs do? Just about anything you want; these (and American Pit Bull Terriers) are the most versatile of dogs. Drug detection; seeing eye dogs; therapy dogs; cadaver dogs; cattle rounding & farm dogs; military IED dogs; search and rescue; you name something that dogs are used for and there will be examples of AmStaffs and pit bulls at the front of the pack. Although their dog fighting history has shamed the human race, they have risen above it. As always, the dogs were never the problem. Humans! Pah! ricey

I just had a really good read of the Lavoro Amstaffs web site, and I am very impressed. http://lavoro.webs.com/ Their dogs look like performance bred American Pit Bull terriers, and that is a good thing. Their take on this breeds history is very realistic, and if I was in looking for an AmStaff puppy, they'd be on the short list, probably at the top. I like the emphasis they have for performance and for health scores. I love the lean athletic working ability of their dogs. I am probably not the best person to get info from about AmStaffs as I am much more an American Pit Bull terrier person, but sheet! these are fine dogs. ricey

Thanks, mita. Hobbes has been rock solid dependable with kids and people in the 13 years I have known him (although if you ask rats their opinion of his temperament, you may get a different answer....) I knew less than nothing about pit bulls when Hobbes bounded into my life. I didn't even know he was a pit bull for the first year with him. I thought he was a very big Staffordshire bull terrier. Then a woman at the dog park told me he wasn't a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, but an American Staffordshire Terrier 'and a very good example'. This woman is a Terrier group judge at ANKC shows and she knows Amstaffs well. So then I did a bit of Googling on Amstaffs; long story cut short, any AmStaff without breed papers is a pit bull terrier in Australia. So I became involved with dog politics around 12 years ago and still am. Possibly, if I'd known that Hobbes was a pit bull back when I first met him, I would not have been so keen to have him in my home. I'd read stuff about pit bulls in the papers and seen articles on TV. Fortunately, ignorance is bliss, and I am smitten with this dog and his breed. When Hobbes bounds over the bridge, I can't see myself getting anything other than a rescue pit bull puppy. ricey

Yes, tiger brindle with a white blaze and white front paws; I haven't worked out how to post photos yet but I will. ricey

Yes, I will take a few photos of the grand old man tomorrow and upload some. He is so grey in the face, and he has lost a bit of muscle bulk in his hind quarters. His back has a bit of a sway and he has quite a few lipomas; a bit like me really except for the lipomas. Sure I know what love is; a boy loves his dog (thank you, Harlan). ricey

Hi all, My old pit bull terrier Hobbes is getting way old now (14 to 15 years old); quite a bit of arthritis, deaf as a post, and probably a bit of doggy dementia. Spends most of his days sleeping in the sun, and only occasionally playing with my other dogs or human kids. But he still has it in him. We do get a few rats as the garden is pretty lush, and we live reasonably close to the river. I didn't see this but my wife did. Hobbes dropped a decade off his true age; quick as lightning, turned on a 5 cent piece, 1 bite, 1 dead rat. All over before the other two dogs noticed anything. I actually quite like rats; they are intelligent, inquisitive, and they make great pets. But I don't like sharing my house with the feral variety as they are not toilet trained and they think that our food is their food. So if Hobbes continues to eradicate them I am not too upset about it. At least he is quick and efficient, and there is not the protracted execution that cats delight in. Pit bull terriers; bull AND terrier. Too many American Pit Bull terriers and American Staffordshire terriers nowadays are all Bull but no terrier. Big, bulky, and very, very handsome but only half the dog they should be. ricey

What a weird thing to say on a purebred dog forum, do you say that to anyone wanting to obtain a pedigree dog? Big D's silence is deafening..... ricey

Yes, and laws demonstrating common sense. Not too much to expect, really. ricey

Hi Big D, So, you propose two standards. The first standard, neuter any dog that Big D doesn't like; the second standard, 'cease and kill' all dogs that have irrefutable proof that Big D doesn't like them. Simple really. Cheers, ricey

Hi Big D So, to take your position to its logical conclusion, if somebody went looking for a pug breeder because they WANT a pug, then you'd have a major problem with that? Pffft! Unlike a lot of the DOLers who are prepared to rabbit on about pit bulls in verbose detail while actually having no first hand experience of the breed, I have had a reasonable amount of first hand experience of them. I have had the pleasure of sharing my life with an American Pit Bull terrier for over 12 years now, and I have helped in the fostering and rehoming of well over 15 of this much maligned breed. I have researched this breed very thoroughly; I have a Bachelor of Science degree and I know how to research well without being blinded by popular mythology. Well bred American Pit Bull terriers make fantastic family and companion dogs, and in this they are no different to well bred examples of just about any other breed of dog (or mongrel) you care to mention. They require good training, and in this they are no different to any other dog. There are far more powerful dog breeds out there, but no one seems to worry very much about these breeds as they are not currently targeted by the popular press. The position that I have come to over the years is that the breed is not the problem but the intentions of the individual human dog owner is. So, I'd make the point that you could train a standard poodle to be quite an intimidating attack dog (the French Gendarmes used the standard poodle as their police dog for decades) and that you could also train it to be to be a therapy dog. Smart dogs and versatile, those poodles. Just like you can train American Pit Bull terriers for any role that you require of them. So when my geriatric Pit Bull terrier finally shuffles off, I will probably seek out a pit bull breeder because I WANT that particular breed. I want an American Pit Bull terrier as I know and understand just how great and versatile a dog they can be. I am lucky in that I have a few reliable contacts and sources, so I will end up with a well bred (and well bred in Australia) American Pit Bull terrier puppy that I will train well and care for well. I am probably right in thinking that you'd have a major problem with that? That I want an American Pit Bull terrier and not some other more socially acceptable breed (or a breed more acceptable to Big D)? Cheers, ricey

The thing is, all of us are able to change our minds once shown compelling evidence. If we don't, that just shows us to be stupid. This is the process that Hugh Wirth, the former president of the RSPCA, went through. Hugh Wirth and Graham Smith of the Lost Dogs Home were the leading Australian champions of BSL. Graham Smith still is, but Hugh read the research and changed his mind. He very publicly recanted, and is now stridently anti BSL. I admire him for that. I don't admire the damage that Hugh Wirth did to this blameless pit bull breed in Australia, but I do admire him for having the courage to admit he was wrong. The dog acts vary somewhat from state to state and territory, but the bottom line in all of them is that the dog owner is responsible for the actions of their dog. So whether you have a pit bull or a Pekingese, the responsibility is the same: look after your dog and make sure that it is not a problem. That's not too much to ask, is it? ricey

Dear, dear, deary me; Amax-1 and Big D both of you really need to take a chill pill and calm down. Else you both are going to burst a big blood vessel in your brain and become a burden on the public health tax dollar. If you can come up with any research that supports your blinkered views on pit bulls and BSL, I'd love you to share it with us. But you won't be able to, will you? You'll just continue pouring out your ill considered poisonous drivel that you heard from someone else, wont you? Go on, surprise us all by saying something well thought out and considered. Just repeating drivel you read in the news or heard on the bus on the way to work does not constitute intelligent discussion. Merry Christmas to you all. ricey

Yes, I am back. Troy very kindly turned a bind eye to my decade of indiscretions on DOL. Such a kind man and I will not disappoint him this time. My Hobbes is getting old quickly, far more quickly than I am ageing. Hobbes is 13 to 15, while I am 58. On the averages I have at least 20 and possibly 30 years left but Hobbes won't have more than 3. When Hobbes goes, I won't be ready, and I won't be ready for another dog. I will get into a bit of serial dog fostering but not the commitment of another dog. There is a rescue group here in WA called 'Staffy and Bull Breed Rescue' (they are known as 'SABRE') that specialise in the sort of dog I like and when the time comes I will be putting my hand up. I love everything about Hobbes; I will finish with a quote from Harlan Ellison's apocalyptic novella "A Boy and his Dog"- "Do you know what love is? Sure I know; a boy loves his dog". ricey

Hi all, Yes, Hobbes is a much loved member of my human/canine family. We (my lovely wife Jo and I) probably look after our dogs better than we look after ourselves. Me, if I need medical tests or medical stuff, well I might get around to it if or when I have the time and the inclination. Can't be stuffed going to the doctor unless its obviously life threatening. But our dogs....... well that is altogether different. Hobbes has got a tiny limp? Off to the vet! Lizzie's bark sounds a bit hoarse? Vet, here we come! Lulu's scratching at her tail? Hi ho, hi ho, it is off to the vet we go....... It has been some time since I have prowled on DOL and I can't remember how to post photos. Once I work out how to post photos I will post a few photos of Hobbes; some as a young dog, and some as the grey faced dog he is now. Still magnificent though, with presence and attitude. Still my best dog, ever. Not sure that I will be able to deal well with his passing when that happens. Still not certain that I'd be able to have another dog after him. I'm getting just a touch teary and there is this awkward & inconvenient lump in my throat. Cheers, ricey

Hi all, Hobbes my possible pit bull is now somewhere between 13 and 15 years old. I have had the pleasure of his company for the last 12 years. I was introduced to him when my wife found him with no collar at our local 'off leash' dog park. Intact male, no collar or tags, trying to mount a spayed Staffordshire bull terrier that belonged to a friend of ours. Of course, we had to take him home and try to re-unite him with his owner. We never found his owner, so we adopted the big boof head. Back then, our vet said that Hobbes was about 3 years old. If the vet was right, Hobbes is now 15 which is 3 years past the usual life expectancy for his breed. I just renewed his registration for another 3 years which probably entitles me to the 2014 award for "Dog Owner Optimist of the Year". Thing is, apart from his deafness and a touch of doggy senile dementia, Hobbes still carries on like a young pup. If our vet was right about Hobbes' age, I'm betting that he makes it to 18 years old. And I really hope he does...... ricey

Hi all, It is a bit sad, but there is always more than one side to an issue. I'd like to have another pit bull when my Hobbes shuffles off this mortal coil. Hobbes is 14, he has lived longer than most examples of his breed, he is deaf, and he is losing his sight. I will be devastated when he dies. I don't want an American Staffordshire terrier or Staffordshire bull terrier, I want another American Pit Bull terrier. And I kept Hobbes safely for 13 years in Western Australia, and he was never in danger, and never endangered another dog or human. Hobbes is the only one of my three dogs that I'd let my grandson play with (supervised of course; you can never fully trust your grand child). Owning a "pit bull" is no different to owning any other dog (except that you can never truthfully acknowledge your dog's actual breed). So what are my options for sourcing another American Pit Bull? Not that flash really. Hopefully I won't have to rely on dodgy Gumtree breeders as I have a few contacts in the pit bull world and also in the dog rescue world. But I'd really like a well bred American Pit Bull terrier from established and well respected lines such as Colby, and to do that is possible, but far too expensive for me. Me, I think there is justification for ignoring unjust laws. Gandhi called this "civil disobedience". My main concern with the people that are selling pit bulls on Facebook or Gumtree is that the dogs are not pit bulls. So what they are doing is probably fraud. Now fraud certainly is a crime, but if they were selling real American Pit Bull terriers to genuine buyers who would look after them I would not have too much of a problem. But they aren't; the pups will be bitzas and the buyers will be defrauded. And they will be at risk of losing their dogs as "pit bulls" even when they are not. Just a touch ironic. And so sad for the dogs. I was in two minds whether to post this as I really have not fully thought this through, but hey! What the hell? If there are people breeding genuine pure bred American Pit Bull terriers in Australia and selling them to knowledgeable dog owners who know how to look after them and keep them, I say "good on you!" I know of a couple of American Pit Bull terrier breeders who continue to breed the occasional litter in Australia. They are fanatical in ensuring that their pups go to people who will look after them. They do not advertise on Facebook or Gumtree. And maybe I will contact them when the time comes. Or maybe I will rely on my rescue contacts for my next American Pit Bull terrier as there is a shit load of American Pit Bull terriers up for rehoming in Australia (except that they are called "staffy crosses" or "Am Staff crosses" as the truth is too hard and a death sentence for the dogs). ricey p.s. yeah, so sorry, I do not want to cause offense; I just wanted to air my views even though I have not fully thought through just what my position on this issue is. My position is a bit of a "work in progress" LOL.

Yeah, canis lupus familiaris. A somewhat kinder species than homo sapiens. At least the dogs have nothing to feel ashamed about. ricey

Hi all, I am the proud owner of an American Pit Bull Terrier (probably) and a dingo/cream kelpie/corgi cross (perhaps). Fortunately, I live in Western Australia and so I can enjoy my dogs without having to worry about some nasty little Nazi ranger with a chip on both shoulders accusing me of owning "dangerous dogs". Me, I'd think that any "dingo cross" could realistically be registered as a "kelpie cross". The kelpie has a big dose of dingo blood (some would say a majority dose). How "dingoey" (if that is a word, Esky the husky) does it look? Who gives a rat's arse? If it looks like a dingo, it looks like a sort of kelpie. Therefore it is an Aussie icon dog and no government (state or federal) would have the guts to legislate against it. Not even Tony Abbot would be stupid enough to ban "red dog". OK, I am not too sure about the preceding sentence; Tony has demonstrated serious stupidity on a major scale and on the world wide stage. Tony is currently a bit of an embarrassment for us Aussies. Bring back Julia; at least she had the decency to believe what she said. Tony however is totally false (like all his ministers). Tony makes Clive look like a statesman. ricey (ducking for cover; the Tony fan club is going to be quite upset). But again, who gives a rat's arse? Not me, and certainly not Clive Palmer or Helen Milne