Luke GSP

Bye Then RIP little dog Healing thoughts to the lady and her remaining companion Hopefully next time this happens to one of your fellow canines (as sadly it will). People will choose to honour your memory rather than as a tool to push their own agenda!

I think you will find that the very first post raised the BSL issue (breed) and once again, this was an horrific attack by a larger breed dog on a small one, so it was quite literally big dogs Vs little dog, and once again, little dog lost. So the posts are hardly "off topic" are they? The original post was turned in to a party political broadcast, so what exactly were people expected to write????? My point was simply that every one of these threads turns into the same issues... If people want to start breed bashing (or dog size bashing) thread, by all means do so.. This isn't about that.. It is about a poor woman who has lost her dog under horrific circumstances... Just my opinion, but it would be nice to see, just once, a thread where people come and leave their condolences without turning it into a sledging match between breeds/sizes.. I don't disagree, but some people cannot miss an opportunity to push their personal agenda, maybe a good start would be if the thread had not been titled "Dog Attack Caught On Camera, How's that BSL working for you Victoria?" Doesn't look to me like the OP was aiming for a thread where people could leave their condolences. You really can't help yourself can you? I can title the thread whatever I would like to thanks, seeing as I started it. My comment on BSL was entirely relevant to the thread, as it genuinely upsets me that these attacks continue to happen while governments ignore proven science driven animal management techniques that drastically reduce dog attacks on people and other dogs. This poor woman lost her dog. That is completely unacceptable and rather than blame the dogs breed or size and go on and on constantly about the size/power of the dog I think it's very important to recognise that more pro-active (rather than simply reactionary) animal management techniques, education programmes and incentives are needed because these attacks continue to happen time and time again. There is a model that works. The fact that our Government ignore it in favour of models that are proven not to work is criminal. Who said you couldn't call it what you like? I was answering staffyluv who asked "My point was simply that every one of these threads turns into the same issues... If people want to start breed bashing (or dog size bashing) thread, by all means do so.. This isn't about that.. It is about a poor woman who has lost her dog under horrific circumstances... Just my opinion, but it would be nice to see, just once, a thread where people come and leave their condolences without turning it into a sledging match between breeds/sizes.." I just pointed out that, from the original title, I would have thought it obvious that the thread was not intended to be about the woman or dog, as you rightly pointed out, you started the thread and hence you chose that it would be focused on BSL rather than the plight of the victims, that was your choice to make and obviously you felt that making your point about BSL took priority. You would have also noticed then that my post began with condolences to the victim and an expression of disgust at what had happened, and that I've mentioned that a few times throughout the thread now. It's become very clear to me that you read what you want to read. But you chose to title the thread "Dog Attack Caught On Camera, How's that BSL working for you Victoria?" which I think you will find is supposed to be the topic of the thread (the focus of the conversation)? I am not disputing that you have "mentioned" it a few times, but you chose that BSL needed to be the focus/topic of the thread, so please don't try to make this about me reading what I want to read, I read the topic and replied accordingly. You started the thread You titled the thread and decided the topic You decided that the thread topic should be focused on BSL's failings in regard to this attack Your decisions OWN THEM!

I think you will find that the very first post raised the BSL issue (breed) and once again, this was an horrific attack by a larger breed dog on a small one, so it was quite literally big dogs Vs little dog, and once again, little dog lost. So the posts are hardly "off topic" are they? The original post was turned in to a party political broadcast, so what exactly were people expected to write????? My point was simply that every one of these threads turns into the same issues... If people want to start breed bashing (or dog size bashing) thread, by all means do so.. This isn't about that.. It is about a poor woman who has lost her dog under horrific circumstances... Just my opinion, but it would be nice to see, just once, a thread where people come and leave their condolences without turning it into a sledging match between breeds/sizes.. I don't disagree, but some people cannot miss an opportunity to push their personal agenda, maybe a good start would be if the thread had not been titled "Dog Attack Caught On Camera, How's that BSL working for you Victoria?" Doesn't look to me like the OP was aiming for a thread where people could leave their condolences. You really can't help yourself can you? I can title the thread whatever I would like to thanks, seeing as I started it. My comment on BSL was entirely relevant to the thread, as it genuinely upsets me that these attacks continue to happen while governments ignore proven science driven animal management techniques that drastically reduce dog attacks on people and other dogs. This poor woman lost her dog. That is completely unacceptable and rather than blame the dogs breed or size and go on and on constantly about the size/power of the dog I think it's very important to recognise that more pro-active (rather than simply reactionary) animal management techniques, education programmes and incentives are needed because these attacks continue to happen time and time again. There is a model that works. The fact that our Government ignore it in favour of models that are proven not to work is criminal. Who said you couldn't call it what you like? I was answering staffyluv who asked "My point was simply that every one of these threads turns into the same issues... If people want to start breed bashing (or dog size bashing) thread, by all means do so.. This isn't about that.. It is about a poor woman who has lost her dog under horrific circumstances... Just my opinion, but it would be nice to see, just once, a thread where people come and leave their condolences without turning it into a sledging match between breeds/sizes.." I just pointed out that, from the original title, I would have thought it obvious that the thread was not intended to be about the woman or dog, as you rightly pointed out, you started the thread and hence you chose that it would be focused on BSL rather than the plight of the victims, that was your choice to make and obviously you felt that making your point about BSL took priority. ETA You might want to discuss it with Haredown Whippets (post 35) though as it would appear that you seem to have a difference of opinion as to whether BSL was even meant to address such an attack?

I think you will find that the very first post raised the BSL issue (breed) and once again, this was an horrific attack by a larger breed dog on a small one, so it was quite literally big dogs Vs little dog, and once again, little dog lost. So the posts are hardly "off topic" are they? The original post was turned in to a party political broadcast, so what exactly were people expected to write????? My point was simply that every one of these threads turns into the same issues... If people want to start breed bashing (or dog size bashing) thread, by all means do so.. This isn't about that.. It is about a poor woman who has lost her dog under horrific circumstances... Just my opinion, but it would be nice to see, just once, a thread where people come and leave their condolences without turning it into a sledging match between breeds/sizes.. I don't disagree, but some people cannot miss an opportunity to push their personal agenda, maybe a good start would be if the thread had not been titled "Dog Attack Caught On Camera, How's that BSL working for you Victoria?" Doesn't look to me like the OP was aiming for a thread where people could leave their condolences. FFS, again I wasn't having a go... It is just my opinion... I never quoted anyone, to have a go.. I never mentioned the OP or BSL... All I was commenting on was now horrible the event was and how these threads always go the same way... It was just a personal observation that these threads always end up with the same crap in them.. I SUGGESTED it might be nice to see a thread about one of these disasters where people just leave their condolences without it turning I to a crap fight... And I agreed with you.

I think you will find that the very first post raised the BSL issue (breed) and once again, this was an horrific attack by a larger breed dog on a small one, so it was quite literally big dogs Vs little dog, and once again, little dog lost. So the posts are hardly "off topic" are they? The original post was turned in to a party political broadcast, so what exactly were people expected to write????? My point was simply that every one of these threads turns into the same issues... If people want to start breed bashing (or dog size bashing) thread, by all means do so.. This isn't about that.. It is about a poor woman who has lost her dog under horrific circumstances... Just my opinion, but it would be nice to see, just once, a thread where people come and leave their condolences without turning it into a sledging match between breeds/sizes.. I don't disagree, but some people cannot miss an opportunity to push their personal agenda, maybe a good start would be if the thread had not been titled "Dog Attack Caught On Camera, How's that BSL working for you Victoria?" Doesn't look to me like the OP was aiming for a thread where people could leave their condolences.

Difference being, I don't pretend to not be a douche. :) WOW, boy do I feel put in my place now, how could I possibly hope to hold my own in an intellectual discussion with such a powerhouse as you? Seriously thats what you've got, base insults? ETA if memory serves someone recently said to me "Pretend to act like the bigger person and then leave it with a personal jibe. " now, who could that have been???????????? oh thats right, it was you! At the time I thought that it was sarcasm but now I realise it was advice

Yes, and the big/small dog issue was raised because it was a big dog that attacked and killed a small one, Now, as the large dog in question was not on the BSL list and as far as the information that anyone has presented, was not identified as a previous dangerous dog, X breed, entire or unregistered how would scraping BSL of stopped the poor little dog losing her life? Who said repealing BSL would have prevented this particular attack? I didn't - that's you assuming. I said that BSL didn't PREVENT this attack from happening, which is what it designed and supposed to do. Proven models of animal management legislation like the Calgary Model may well have prevented this attack. In fact it's actually quite likely it would have seeing as their dog bites have quartered in 20 years (all without BSL). I notice that you've now changed your tact to 'all large breed owners should be more responsible' rather than just targeting the mythical 50kg Pit Bull owners as you were in the previous thread (still haven't seen your reference for that quote or you admitting you made it up). Now we agree. Anyone with a large breed (or powerful medium breed) dog has a higher level of responsibility because of the potential damage their dog can do. That does not absolve small dog owners from their responsibilities also. As Pit Bull type dogs are systematically wiped out in Victoria we will start seeing more and more attacks like this from GSD, Rottweilers, Mastiffs etc as the idiots go for a breed that's easier to own. I really hope that the Government is intelligent enough to figure that BSL doesn't work as opposed to adding more breeds to the list, but I don't have much confidence I can't imagine the horror that poor little dog's owner felt. That is exactly how the dog came at mine a few weeks ago and it was terrifying. I was very lucky I was in a very public place and the dog's lead was trailing as a passer-by was able to very quickly grab the dogs lead and prevent any real injury. "legislation like the Calgary Model may well have prevented this attack" Who's assuming now? "I notice that you've now changed your tact to 'all large breed owners should be more responsible'" and I notice that you have still not gone back and read through my posts to find out where I singled out APBT as you keep accusing me of, when you initially accused me of this in the other thread i asked you to show me where i singled out APBT and not large powerful breeds, bull breeds or type. It is you who is focusing on APBT not me, I spoke about the APBT's being bred for "gameness" but other than that I focused no more on them than any of the aforementioned. So again, a large breed dog has killed a small one. The large breed dog was not a BSL breed, it has not been released whether it was previously kept tethered, whether it is entire, registered, previously aggressive etc etc you know the list, you wheel it out in every BSL debate, so as none of these "FACTS" are known, why would you bring up BSL as you have zero evidence that the Calgary model would have stopped it either, regardless of that though, you saw your opportunity for a party political broadcast and took it, much like you accuse the media of doing every time there is an attack reported involving a "pitbull" or "pitbull type" Three words Pot, Kettle, Black! It is you who keeps spouting on about BSL, Calgary model, any dog can bite blah blah blah, and then fling mud at anyone who does not categorically and unequivocally agree with you. I have stated from the beginning that some dogs are much better equipped to cause major trauma and death than others and if I owned one of those dogs that represent a higher % of the dog attack fatalities list, I would be very worried, it is you that wants to make it about APBT's, BSL and propensity to bite So please, either dispute my statement "that some dogs are much better equipped to cause major trauma and death than others" (which I think you will find is very "on topic" in this thread) or leave it alone and don't try and twist it to suit your agenda. Then again maybe you're a bit to "game" to walk away? (assuming that my use of the "game" trait in this context fits with your definition, sure you will correct me if it is not) If you can't see the (very clear, very obvious) logic in my posts, then discussing with you further is a lost cause. You seem to have some sort of vendetta as you've just recently cropped up in these topics with lots of fury and rage and an inability to see otherwise. Has something recently happened to you to cause this? Your posts seem to have the emotional and hysterical feel of someone who has recently had a negative experience with a particular type of dog. You don't seem to understand what the Calgary model involves. It makes it very, very hard to be an irresponsible dog owner, and clearly this attack was caused by irresponsible dog ownership (loose dog), therefore there is every chance that something like the Calgary Model being in place may have prevented the attack. I agreed with you in my last post in this topic but you seem to only read what you want to read. I hope you, as a dog owner also are careful and responsible with your dog that is able to do much more damage than a small dog. Oh you do make me laugh, Fury and rage! Vendetta! Emotional and hysterical! Asking if "something has happened to me" Nothing there that isn't based in fact is there?????? You agree with my statement about size versus possible danger and yet continue to throw mud???????? But apparently I'm the one with the problem? Pure comedy

Love what you did there. Pretend to act like the bigger person and then leave it with a personal jibe. Well eventually anyone would get sick and tired of people accusing them of all sorts and dissecting everything they write in an attempt to discredit them. How about we go through every post you've ever written and see if you remain utterly factual and never try and provoke or have a go at some one? People in glass houses (rollseyes)

Yes, and the big/small dog issue was raised because it was a big dog that attacked and killed a small one, Now, as the large dog in question was not on the BSL list and as far as the information that anyone has presented, was not identified as a previous dangerous dog, X breed, entire or unregistered how would scraping BSL of stopped the poor little dog losing her life? Who said repealing BSL would have prevented this particular attack? I didn't - that's you assuming. I said that BSL didn't PREVENT this attack from happening, which is what it designed and supposed to do. Proven models of animal management legislation like the Calgary Model may well have prevented this attack. In fact it's actually quite likely it would have seeing as their dog bites have quartered in 20 years (all without BSL). I notice that you've now changed your tact to 'all large breed owners should be more responsible' rather than just targeting the mythical 50kg Pit Bull owners as you were in the previous thread (still haven't seen your reference for that quote or you admitting you made it up). Now we agree. Anyone with a large breed (or powerful medium breed) dog has a higher level of responsibility because of the potential damage their dog can do. That does not absolve small dog owners from their responsibilities also. As Pit Bull type dogs are systematically wiped out in Victoria we will start seeing more and more attacks like this from GSD, Rottweilers, Mastiffs etc as the idiots go for a breed that's easier to own. I really hope that the Government is intelligent enough to figure that BSL doesn't work as opposed to adding more breeds to the list, but I don't have much confidence I can't imagine the horror that poor little dog's owner felt. That is exactly how the dog came at mine a few weeks ago and it was terrifying. I was very lucky I was in a very public place and the dog's lead was trailing as a passer-by was able to very quickly grab the dogs lead and prevent any real injury. "legislation like the Calgary Model may well have prevented this attack" Who's assuming now? "I notice that you've now changed your tact to 'all large breed owners should be more responsible'" and I notice that you have still not gone back and read through my posts to find out where I singled out APBT as you keep accusing me of, when you initially accused me of this in the other thread i asked you to show me where i singled out APBT and not large powerful breeds, bull breeds or type. It is you who is focusing on APBT not me, I spoke about the APBT's being bred for "gameness" but other than that I focused no more on them than any of the aforementioned. So again, a large breed dog has killed a small one. The large breed dog was not a BSL breed, it has not been released whether it was previously kept tethered, whether it is entire, registered, previously aggressive etc etc you know the list, you wheel it out in every BSL debate, so as none of these "FACTS" are known, why would you bring up BSL as you have zero evidence that the Calgary model would have stopped it either, regardless of that though, you saw your opportunity for a party political broadcast and took it, much like you accuse the media of doing every time there is an attack reported involving a "pitbull" or "pitbull type" Three words Pot, Kettle, Black! It is you who keeps spouting on about BSL, Calgary model, any dog can bite blah blah blah, and then fling mud at anyone who does not categorically and unequivocally agree with you. I have stated from the beginning that some dogs are much better equipped to cause major trauma and death than others and if I owned one of those dogs that represent a higher % of the dog attack fatalities list, I would be very worried, it is you that wants to make it about APBT's, BSL and propensity to bite So please, either dispute my statement "that some dogs are much better equipped to cause major trauma and death than others" (which I think you will find is very "on topic" in this thread) or leave it alone and don't try and twist it to suit your agenda. Then again maybe you're a bit to "game" to walk away? (assuming that my use of the "game" trait in this context fits with your definition, sure you will correct me if it is not)

Yes, and the big/small dog issue was raised because it was a big dog that attacked and killed a small one, Now, as the large dog in question was not on the BSL list and as far as the information that anyone has presented, was not identified as a previous dangerous dog, X breed, entire or unregistered how would scraping BSL of stopped the poor little dog losing her life? Because if we actually had models in place that have been proven to work, we would have less attacks overall. So how would that have stopped the small dog losing it's life? what Model would have identified the GSD that attacked it from doing so today? If there isn't a model that would have prevented it why bring it or BSL up in the first place?

Yes, and the big/small dog issue was raised because it was a big dog that attacked and killed a small one, Now, as the large dog in question was not on the BSL list and as far as the information that anyone has presented, was not identified as a previous dangerous dog, X breed, entire or unregistered how would scraping BSL of stopped the poor little dog losing her life?

I think you will find that the very first post raised the BSL issue (breed) and once again, this was an horrific attack by a larger breed dog on a small one, so it was quite literally big dogs Vs little dog, and once again, little dog lost. So the posts are hardly "off topic" are they? The original post was turned in to a party political broadcast, so what exactly were people expected to write?????

100% :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Words escape me, another example of an owner failing to comprehend the possible danger that their dog represented, and another innocent victim. RIP little dog, healing thoughts to the lady and her remaining little friend, :-(

Sorry Sheridan, but where's the survey that backs up your opinion of small dog owners? I'm a small dog owner currently. I've also owned a German Shepherd Cross, a Cattle cross and rescued or facilitated the rescue of dogs over 30 kilos on a regular basis. Some small dog owners have them for reasons other than that is all they want. Many people I know are so fearful about being attacked by large dogs, they tell me they want a dog they can pick up .... some people have bad backs. some peple have small spaces ... I call bull****. I have never seen you post one positive thing about big dogs. I can't believe the hatred of dogs by some people, on what is supposedly a dog lovers forum. Hatred? Where? The only overcharged emotion being expressed in this thread is the blind denial and flat refusal on some people's part to accept basic facts, and when presented with a question that they can no longer avoid or deny they start flinging mud, names and accusations like the people that disagree with them "hate" dogs. I certainly don't hate any dog, I love all of them for what they are, dogs, but I don't allow my love for them cloud my judgement to the point that I cannot see that some, if in an aggressive state, have a greater ability to cause immense trauma and death than others. Doesn't mean I hate them. I don't "hate" snakes either, but if a death adder turned up in my backyard I would certainly treat the situation differently than if it were a tree snake. To acknowledge that something poses a certain level of threat is not to "hate" it, rather it enables you to analyse the situation, knowing the possible risks, and take appropriate care to avoid an undesireable outcome. My take on it is that most serious attacks are due to people not acknowledging the risks associated with animals like theirs, hence they do not take appropriate action.

you would be if they forced you or your dog out onto the road in front of a car. Made you drop your dogs lead in the scuffle and your dog took off never to be seen again. clutching at straws... much! in the scenarios above 1, your injuries would have been caused by a car not a dog (unless you are suggesting that SWF dogs are now using automobiles to kill people in an attempt to overt suspicion from them?) 2, you relinquished control of your animal and it ran away neither of them shows that a smaller dog than one of the larger more powerful breeds that tend to be disproportionately represented in the dog attack death statistics represents a similar level of danger to the public. A menace? yes. Acceptable, NO. A Danger??????

My comment was in response to Luke GSP saying.. Which I think is an irresponsible and very short-sighted way of looking at the issue (because the issue isn't big dogs attacking, it's dogs attacking). And Luke.. couching your argument in the "but this is what the public thinks" defense doesn't really cut it when you yourself said.. Small dogs kill and injury both people and other dogs. To believe otherwise is being willfully ignorant. Show me one study that shows that small dogs represent the same % of dog attack related deaths as they represent of dog ownership! If you can't then I would say that your statement is the only thing here that is willfully ignorant. The reason I say about all large breed dog owners is that the further you pull away from breed the more chance you have of the legislation being written around a different criteria, now what do the majority of dogs that are involved in attacks causing death have in common? my guess would be that it isn't that they are small, white and fluffy and weighing less than 4KG. Show me a study that proves your point and then we'll talk. Bearing in mind, of course, bites and other injuries caused by small dogs are much less likely to be reported. dear oh dear, have a read of any of the reports or studies that cover death by dog attack, I can guarantee that you will not find one of them that shows that smaller breeds are represented at the same % as they are owned. Why do you think that might be? according to you they are just as capable and we all know that all dogs have the same propensity to bite. As for your comment about being "much less likely to be reported", are you honestly suggesting that whenever a maltese mauls a human or other dog to death there is some sort of cover up? or do you think that there is a reason why they are not reported? Could it possibly be because the damage that they do is not as severe (which would mean that you are agreeing with me) which in turn would mean that they do not represent the same level of danger to the public as a large powerful dog. let me give you an example, Nerf guns have the exact same ability to be fired at someone as a hand gun (propensity is the same, much like dogs) They both fire projectiles which can injure people (all dogs bite, so again very much the same) They both operate in the same manner (you pull the trigger, all breeds of dog would/could bite for the same reasons) Yet one of them is illegal in some states and you have to go through a rigorous licensing application to get one even in the states where they are not illegal. why do you think that is?.................Oh thats right, even though legally held firearms represented less than .01% of firearms injuries and deaths it is widely accepted that they are more dangerous than Nerf guns and hence need to be controlled, why is that view taken BECAUSE THEY CAN AND HAVE KILLED PEOPLE at a much higher rate of frequency than NERF guns. or maybe the same government agency that is covering up all the small dog attack maulings and deaths by forcing the media to report them as a large or powerful breed are also secretly covering up the NERF deaths as well? YEAH RIGHT!

My comment was in response to Luke GSP saying.. Which I think is an irresponsible and very short-sighted way of looking at the issue (because the issue isn't big dogs attacking, it's dogs attacking). And Luke.. couching your argument in the "but this is what the public thinks" defense doesn't really cut it when you yourself said.. Small dogs kill and injury both people and other dogs. To believe otherwise is being willfully ignorant. Show me one study that shows that small dogs represent the same % of dog attack related deaths as they represent of dog ownership! If you can't then I would say that your statement is the only thing here that is willfully ignorant. The reason I say about all large breed dog owners is that the further you pull away from breed the more chance you have of the legislation being written around a different criteria, now what do the majority of dogs that are involved in attacks causing death have in common? my guess would be that it isn't that they are small, white and fluffy and weighing less than 4KG.

Every owner of a smaller breed dog needs to think about the same thing. Our dogs have been attacked several times by smaller dogs (ironically, JRT crosses, mostly) and one of my dogs is now quite reactive to smaller dogs as a result of being nipped at, jumped on, mounted and barked at by aggressive small dogs that are always offleash (the dog in question is always kept on leash, as is the law). We see plenty of examples of other larger dogs becoming reactive to small dogs because the owners of small dogs seem to be under the impression that because their dog is small, it can't cause harm- failing to realise that harm is much more than just physical damage. Having a go at larger dogs generally is as thoughtless and ignorant as BSL- body size is no different from body shape; it does not determine how likely a dog is to attack another dog. Of course more physical damage could be done but that's only one side of the story and certainly not a reason to go on the attack and sling blame around. If you want to play the blame game, here's a good likely suspect- the owners of the two attacking dogs. They did the wrong thing. That does not mean all owners of large dogs do the wrong thing though and it certainly doesn't mean that irresponsible owners are more likely to be attracted to larger dogs. I've met plenty of idiot owners who have had small, fluffy dogs. I didn't say anything about propensity/how likely to attack and in honesty do you believe that BSL is about the likelihood of attacking? Please people, understand that the public (in general) want to feel safe, they want their children to feel safe and yes they want their dogs to be safe (if they own one, if they don't then they probably would not care if all dogs were banned forever) which do you think the public is most worried about, a jumped up barking/growling SWF or a dog that either kills someone, something or injures someone??? Of course any interaction between animals that does not go smoothly can shape their behaviour, but I dont think that BSL or any other legislation would ever try and tackle that one as if it did, a large amount of people on here would be having issues as IME there are very few dogs that at some point do not have "a go" at another, but that is not what worries the public, they are worried about the ones that kill/injure people which in their perception tends to be large/powerful breeds So basically, if the largest percentage of deaths/serious injury are caused by a certain type/shape of dog it will be those that the public is worried about/want something done about. Frankly joe public doesn't give a hoot about bite propensity, animal behaviour or that the dog community considers it the owners "fault" they just perceive it as "another" powerful aggressive looking dog has "once again" attacked and killed someone or something. Please before everyone forms a pack and decides to attack me for the sentiment in this post, please read it and fully understand that I am stating Joe publics view (who is the people that the government is supposed to react in the interests of) not mine, but the sooner the dog owning community identifies and understands that any legislation is not (really) about likelihood of attack, it is about the (perceived) likelihood of a gruesome outcome, the more chance it will have of finding a solution!

Not having a go at you minimax, but your comment did make me think back to the amount of fights that I have had to get amongst to stop at the local dog park whilst the dogs owners stood by and either screamed or should "(insert dogs name here) come or stop" I honestly believe that before someone gets a dog they should consider are they able to deal with the situation should their dog get in to a fight? I have frequently put myself between my dogs and another oncoming, unleashed animal to ensure that the introductions were either in an orderly fashion or didn't happen at all, depending on the situation at the time, I look at it as my job. Please do not take this as "having a go" I promise that i am not :) it was purely your comment that prompted my train of thought as we all tend to factor in the "work" associated with getting a dog, but I am wondering if everyone factors in being ready to deal with the real dog world should they ever have to face it? As to the lady and her dog, she deserves a medal, may the dog rest in peace. my heart goes out to the both of them. The other dogs should be destroyed, the owner of the other dogs deserves a jail term and every owner of a large breed dog needs to start thinking about why these kinds of incidents keep happening, and how they can make sure to the best of their abilities that their dog is never in a position where they could do the same. No one is perfect and any dog is capable of such an act and sometimes it only takes a second or momentary lapse for the dog to have the chance, sadly though some dog "types" are far better equipped to cause terrible trauma and death than others, and whilst irresponsible owners who gravitate towards that type of animal are able to get them unregistered, probably not from sound breeding, (I would be willing to bet entire) sadly the days of responsible people being able to have them at all will be numbered. Not saying it's right, just stating the obvious based on history. I too would probably instincivly put myself between my dog, but not with my face!!! I thought that I had made it clear that my post was not directed at you and if you read my post you would see that i was not suggesting someone using their face either, but i wonder how many are ready and prepared to get involved in breaking up a dog fight should it occur as in my experience, it is very few owners as they would prefer to stand around expecting their dog to suddenly "snap out of it" and obey a command as I typed previously, please do not take this as "having a go" I promise that i am not it was purely your comment that prompted my train of thought as we all tend to factor in the "work" associated with getting a dog, but I am wondering if everyone factors in being ready to deal with the real dog world should they ever have to face it?

Not having a go at you minimax, but your comment did make me think back to the amount of fights that I have had to get amongst to stop at the local dog park whilst the dogs owners stood by and either screamed or should "(insert dogs name here) come or stop" I honestly believe that before someone gets a dog they should consider are they able to deal with the situation should their dog get in to a fight? I have frequently put myself between my dogs and another oncoming, unleashed animal to ensure that the introductions were either in an orderly fashion or didn't happen at all, depending on the situation at the time, I look at it as my job. Please do not take this as "having a go" I promise that i am not :) it was purely your comment that prompted my train of thought as we all tend to factor in the "work" associated with getting a dog, but I am wondering if everyone factors in being ready to deal with the real dog world should they ever have to face it? As to the lady and her dog, she deserves a medal, may the dog rest in peace. my heart goes out to the both of them. The other dogs should be destroyed, the owner of the other dogs deserves a jail term and every owner of a large breed dog needs to start thinking about why these kinds of incidents keep happening, and how they can make sure to the best of their abilities that their dog is never in a position where they could do the same. No one is perfect and any dog is capable of such an act and sometimes it only takes a second or momentary lapse for the dog to have the chance, sadly though some dog "types" are far better equipped to cause terrible trauma and death than others, and whilst irresponsible owners who gravitate towards that type of animal are able to get them unregistered, probably not from sound breeding, (I would be willing to bet entire) sadly the days of responsible people being able to have them at all will be numbered. Not saying it's right, just stating the obvious based on history.

Andis, AGC2 from clipperworld is what i went with, in addition to the #10 blade that comes with them I got a set of #7 and #5 saying that though, just make sure you want to clip as if you clip all over you can make their coats go wooly.

Sounds like Turid Rugaas (and I am very likely to have spelt that wrong) 'On talking terms with dogs : calming signals'. Meanwhile, I am trying to figure out how I can lick my own nose, lol. Thats the one. great book. I just lick my top lip, close enough for rock and roll :)

100% ;-)

I have had plenty of horse experience including dressage, jumping, riding newly broken horses, taking large numbers of beginners out on mountain trail rides and handling unbroken stallions as well as broken ones while being used for breeding. You do get the odd idiot that thinks they know more than they do and they come to grief but as a general rule most people know their limitations and err on the side of caution whereas with dogs it seems the odds are reversed. IMO that's because riding a horse is not a penis extension. There are certain types of dogs that appeal to certain types of people and sadly the bull breeds seem to be the red hot favourite with every ute driving, Winnie blue smoking youngster. Who then go around to most dog parks and revel in their dog trying to dominate every other animal in there to the point that someone has a go at them and they tell you to f*ck off as apparently their dog "is only playing" I've even had one of them telling me that her "staffy" always got picked on by other dogs who would try and bite her "friendly staffy who just loves playing with other dogs" I then watched as her sweetheart went systematically from one dog to another pinning them to the ground by their necks until the other dog would be taken home or turn round after a good few minutes of harassment and bite her dog which would then start a fight. But obviously, the other dog was to blame as it tried to bite hers first! Needless to say, she was alone in the dog park very quickly! Horses are not a statement about how hard you are and hence they probably don't attract the same crowd (lucky for the horses)