Luke GSP

Either on a higher setting or with the full expectation that I will have to turn it up should it be necessary. But surely, as previously said, the stim level has to be found as a working level in that environment, hence why the level control is on the handset, doesn't mean that it is not being used at the lowest level to get a reaction/acknowledgement. I don't think anyone has said that you can use the collar on it's lowest level (ie 1) it is the dogs lowest working level, in the circumstances that it is being trained.

So how many times did you have to stim the neighbour before she stopped????? :laugh: Sorry, couldn't resit that one.

oh yes, Lola hates the vibration, has a real reaction to it which made me feel terrible for doing it! Yet with the stim, she just pays attention to it, doesn't react nearly as highly to it. She finds the vibration more aversive. Absolutely, I can get a much stronger negative reaction out of a dog from my voice tone alone, than I have seen from a correctly set ecollar on stim!

If you "knew how to use them" you would understand that there are many different ways of using them than old fashioned positive punishment, "the dog has done wrong so shock it!" mentality, in fact I have never seen one used as a positive punishment. Most of the e collar training that I have seen is to train a dog to repeat a desirable behaviour, not to take an undesireable one and teach the dog not to repeat it. but as I said i have never seen one used as a positive punishment. Also, whilst on the subject of "pain and discomfort" do you not think that most training has a level of discomfort and possible pain (depending on the sensitivity of the animal?) Pain and discomfort can be far more than physical. Just putting an animal under pressure to learn a behaviour for a treat exerts a level of discomfort and yes "pain" albeit mental :) hence why IMO you need to have a strategy to relieve the pressure should you find the animal stuck. An e collar used correctly would exert no more measurable "pain or discomfort" than any other method, Have a look in to e collar trained dogs that have been trained correctly, an awfull lot of them don't look like they are suffering discomfort to me. In fact I have seen most dogs display a much higher avoidance behaviour to an e collar on vibrate(which is much like a mobile phone vibrating) than they do to a correctly set stim. Basically the wrong tool, applied to the wrong dog, in an incorrect manner, and the wrong situation will at best not work, and at worst damage the dogs long term development, alternatively the right tool, applied to the right animal, correctly, in the right situation willl work! The trick is to be open minded enough to know when the tools at your disposal, in this situation are the wrong ones, for the animal your dealing with and consequently the knowledge of what to do is outside of your current knowledge. (please note that this last sentence is not "aimed" at anyone in particular just a general belief that I hold IMO

Good point and should that be an issue, I will revert to a wire crate, however I wanted to have the choice though as apparently the dog is very "soft" and my female GSP was/is also very soft and where as my male loved the wire crate, she hated it and only really settled when we used an enclosed style, as everything with dogs "horses for courses" I suppose. Anyway, Thanks for the responces but I have found the crate in question, it was under a ton of stuff in our spare bedroom so it's all good, thanks to those that posted. :)

as a foreword, I know nothing about prong collars and Please note that I am by no means an expert on ecollars either but, i would say that the benefits of an e collar are far wider than just with an "uncontrollable dog" as I believe that they can be used in most training scenarios as well. I think the issue comes from the statement "barely noticable vibration" The feeling would be from a stim and the stim level is dependant on a few factors. You set the collar on a stim level to get a "reaction" not a pain response. By reaction I mean acknowledgement that something has occurred eyes blink, dogs looks down or around, moves it's head. Obviously the level that a reaction is achieved would/could differ between a low and high drive/distraction state, and that is what needs to be "tuned" to meet the requirements of the particular animal, in the particular situation in question. Hence why most (if not all ecollars) have the level control on the handset. What one dog feels is barely noticable might be intolerable to another, hence why it is so important for the operator to learn the correct way to use the collar, rather than strapping it on and "giving it a go" like anything, in the correct hands they can do a great job but in the wrong hands they can be next to useless or at worse have a negative effect. Think of it this way, when you are sat on your sofa at night, how hard would i need to tap you on the shoulder to get your attention, now think about how hard i would need to tap you on the shoulder to get the same response in the middle of a plane crash, when your body is so full of fear, adrenaline etc that you feel your going to explode????? drastic variance in situation, but hopefully it will give you an idea. Now imagine the differing stimuli levels to get a reaction from a dog who is high drive when he is wandering round the yard with nothing doing and when in a state of drive peak (when the drive initiation and build has been from an undesirable source) again two very different states of mind. Have a look on you tube for ecollar training, there are loads on there about setting stim levels etc and the different methods that can be applied, pre stim, bouncing, variable stim etc Basically, if you have a dog who is sensitive you may get a reaction on 6 but in a dog who does not have the same sensitivity you might need 10, 12 or higher to get the same reaction they both felt the same level of stimuli "enough to notice that something was going on) but from two very different levels. I would summise that the prong is a similar thing ie some dogs would nearly choke themselves whilst dragging their owner down the road but on the same collar, the negative of pulling would be enough of an aversery to put a more sensitive animal off. The prong to the high threshold animal is simply the same level of averserie as the standard collar on a sensitive dog, it just took a higher level of stimuli to get the same reaction and outcome. As i have said, I know nothing about Prongs in any way and what i have typed is purely me thinking "out loud" they are IMO so please before any one shoots me down, I am not stating any of it as fact it is just my take on the situations as I see them. :)

Hi all, it looks like we are going to be adopting a Cocker in to our family, as part of the agreement we have a 21 day period to check that he likes us and the other furry members of the family and that we like him (never met a dog that I didn't like yet) I would like to have an enclosed airfreight type crate to use as a bed in the short to medium term so that he can feel tucked away and safe in there once he gets to his strange new home. The problem is all my crates are GSP size. So, I was wondering if anyone in the south sydney/shire area had an airfreight style crate either that they could loan (happy to leave a deposit if you are worried that we might run off :) ) or alternatively an older one that is not used anymore that they would like to sell? I just don't want to pay full price for a brand new one that fundamentally is only going to be used for a very short period of time. If anyone could offer any help it would be greatly appreciated. I would assume that a 70cm by about 50cm footprint would be about right?????? I'm actually really frustrated as a couple of times a few years ago, I did some mercy runs for the cattle dog rescue down in canberra (taking some dogs from Londonderry to Canberra) and I bought exactly what I need now to keep them safe in the back of my car, unfortunately I have obviously lent it to someone and they have not returned it and for the life of me I cannot remember who it was, as it is not in my garage with all the jumbo GSP size ones now.GRRRRRR very annoyed with myself

Thanks for the swift replies everyone, I honestly cannot believe how easy it was to find them now as I have been looking in every petshop i went in to and also searching on the net with no joy, I think because I was looking for a dog "spike" rather than a "tie out" All sorted now, thanks again

Hi all, I swear that when I was back in blighty you could walk in to pretty much any pet store and buy a dog spike to leash your dog to. A lot of them were like big cork screws so you screwed them in to the ground and then attached a leash to them so they didn,t run off when on a family day out. Did i dream that these exist or does anyone know where you can get them from?

Wow what an earth shattering observation :rolleyes: Whats that there are good and bad trainers? One training method does not fit all dogs? The wrong training method applied to a dog with a different temp could have a negative outcome! These revelations are incredible, the man is obviously a genius! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hi all, Please excuse the lack of information but I am sure that I just heard that a man was attacked and has been taken to hospital after being attacked by two dogs (I won't name the breed as the report did as I don't think it matters)apparently a dog control officer was also bitten but did not require treatment. As I said sorry for the lack of info but I literally just caught it on the radio and I am sure the media will fill us in with the "facts" very soon.

Spot on!

Another vote for K9Pro

Do what to a dog exactly? As requested when you say "such a correction" please give details as to the correction that you are talking about? It is only quicker if applied correctly with an animal that has the correct disposition to the method applied, same as any other training tool.

Sorry but I have to typ ethis, a correctly used ecollar is not an "extreme" measure. expensive, Yes. Extreme, NO. worth the money, Absolutely! IMHO

Maybe you should get a collar for your neighbour! Sorry I know it is not helpful but I just felt it needed saying.

-R of some form would be one option such as forced retrieve training a gundog as an example.

I got a phone call today from the RSPCA selling raffle tickets. They gave me licence numbers etc but i just wanted to check whether anyone on here new if it was genuine? I really don't want this thread to turn in to an rspca bashing exercise, I know some people disagree with them etc but I really just want to know if it was a genuine call or just someone trying to get my details. Thanks

Hi all. I am going to the Vet this afternoon as my female Molly, came in with one of her claws missing it is sheared off right where the claw meets the flesh. The bizarre thing is she seems totally unphased. it obviously had been bleeding but is not bleeding now but does not seem to be drying out (I think she is licking it) Anyway. Off to the Vet later so lets see what they say. I am hoping it will just be some "Antibionics" so she doesn't get an infection.

Thats one way to save on dog food!

Just put a brick (or other large and difficult ojject) in the middle of the bowl and the dog will have to eat around it

did rupert find a home in the end?

Contact Kylie Naylor PO Box 1211 Cronulla NSW Australia 2230 [email protected] e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it 0438 070 272 Don't know if she goes to wollongong b ut worth a chat?

It was just one of those things that came to me at the weekend. My dogs are diametrically opposed in the fact that one of them (male) is a whatever dog. If you stroke hime (whatever!) if you don't (equally whatever) visual gestures though he really responds well to, for instance if you tell him "Down" he will do it but not with half as much urgency as a down with a had command. My female however has always responded well to touch and craves human touch all the time, out of the two of them she also responded extremely well to ecollar work and enjoyed it thouroughly always responding positively where my male was not so keen, at first I thought that the stim level might be to high but the working level that I was using was between 9-15 on a collar system that has a range of 0-128 at this level if he was in a relaxed state you would be hard pushed to see a reaction from him when stim was applied (blink, slight cocking of the head, looking around) so it is unlikely to be that. However it almost appeared as if the stim would cloud him when you tried to use it as a training aid. Food based training works wonders with the male yet the female is not so excited by the idea. She eats the food but gently where if you did not move your hand back as my male went for the food after a retrieve he would end up with just your elbow coming out of his mouth

I have been reading a lot lately about neurolinguistics and how it can help communication between humans beacuse of how you pose a question or address someone depending on the dominant language that their brain works in Tactile Visual Audible So for instance I am visual dominance and hence learn best through visual presentations and watching the mechanics of a scenario where my wife is very tactile and simply cannot walk past a piece of furniture that she like (for instance) without running her had over it. The (very) basic premise is (for instance) if you spoke to my wife about something and said how does that idea look to you, although she can work out what you said it take more comprehension skills than if you said how does that idea feel to you? My thought was to whether there was or has been a similar study of animals, ie dogs? Are some more visual, tactile whilst other olfactory dominant(for arguments sake? MAybe that is why some respond well to hand signals (visually dominant?) as opposed to voice command (audio dominance?) where otheres seem to respond really well to physical methods of training (e-collar etc) Obviously I am aware of the fact that it is true that all dogs seem different to each other but I was wondering if there had ever been a study on trying to hone down to the dominant neural language for a particular animal and work using that method? A bit heavy for first thing monday morning but it is incredible what you think of when you cannot sleep on a Sunday night! ;)