Luke GSP

I suppose it depends how far you have let the dog get in terms of acceleration? I try and time my "stop" very early on as I want the dog under in a very controlled state, so basically as soon as the dog shows signs of reacting to a stimuli I put my foot on the long line, basically no different than if they did it on a lead, Personally, I would not let a dog without an effective recall get in to a "run" somewhere that I needed a long line, I see them as the next step up from a leash, ie here is a bit more freedom, if you walk nicely you can keep that freedom if not the line is shortened until next time, the dog would have to go a long time of not being "stopped" on the long line before I let it "unleash" and have the freedom to run, Hence the neck injury thing is no greater than having the dog on a normal leash ;-) Does that make sense?

I would say that it will be you? if your dog has caused the injury then I would assume that you would be paying the bill. Not saying that I agree with it :) just saying that in reality I would expect any legal action to go in favour of the injured animal, I would also expect that should it get legal, you may end up with your dog being declared "dangerous", again, not saying I agree with it, so please don't shoot the messenger. :)

The K9Pro one is likely fine as it is a designated long line - I was more talking about if you are using a rope (OP was talking about using a water skiing rope) Hi Kavik, sorry I should have been clearer, i meant that i don't get rope burns because i stop the rope with the sole of my shoe, not because of the types of rope totally agree with your point on the rope idea if trying to stop by hand :)

In honesty, I have never had rope burn from the one i got from K9 pro as i just put my foot on it :) it can also help to tie a few knots in it to aid in the stopping power, it also has the benefit of being day glo orange so easy to see in any terrain :cool:

Steve at K9pro, I am sure there are others but Steve is the one I have seen/or heard the most about

I was thinking of putting him in his crate "as he loves it" but in her room so he still knows she's there, it also then let's him take his own sweet time to eat his bedtime chew without it being stolen by a GSP thief. My main issue with sharing the bed is purely that he is an outdoor dog in the day and hence would probably transfer a fair bit of dirt etc on to her bed.

Thats good to know, thanks. If it were my GSP's I would have no issues with it as they have an established pack bond, my concern is based on the fact that this little guy is already on the back foot due to being new and I don't want to impede him integrating with the pack that is already established.

She does everything for him, feeding, letting out in the morning, putting to bed etc etc, she does it all (she is a seriously responsible 9 year old) it was all part of the deal of getting her "own" dog. thats the reason why I am considering it, however, if it risks his integration in to the "pack" it will be off the cards straight away. He is already extremely devoted to her (considering they have only been together since Saturday.) but he really misses her as soon as she goes to school (not to the point of causing an issue, but he just looks a bit lost so if him staying with her at night gave him more time with her and made the relationship even stronger

I agree, there are lots of ways of reward other than treats and I'm happy to use them, saying that, I think until he gets himself totally settled in and comfortable we won't know his true potential for training :) if he stays the way he is, i wouldn't complain he is lovely and just what you want for a kids first dog, but if he settles in and opens up the potential a little bit, who knows. (as long as he still loves 9 year old cuddles of course)

Hi all, As some of you will know, we have acquired a beautiful little cocker who is the softest dog I have ever met. We got him on Saturday and he is fundamentally a dog for my daughter to concentrate on. my concern is in regard to sleeping arrangements. I already have two GSP's and he has integrated quite well with them in regard to no physical violence and in fact the only reprimands have been limited to chesty growls with no teeth shown. Last night they all came in to the front room and laid on beds next to each other with no issues, no growls at all They all have to exist together in the day (three days a week) as we are at work and kids at school. Our neighbour has been keeping an eye on the new arrival and has reported no issues so far. I want him to integrate with the "pack" and be accepted, however, so that he gets to spend more time with my daughter (she already gets him out of bed each day and spend a minimum of 1 hour with him before school and then spends all evening after getting home from school) I was wondering if he could sleep in her room? Not on her bed, but in her room. either on a bed/matt or in a crate (he is an ex show dog and seems to love a crate as he is so relaxed inside it. the reason I ask is two fold, 1 he would get to spend more time with my daughter and increase their bond 2, he is a very bad eater in that he will simply not chew a lambs ear when you give it to him, when he spent the first night in his crate, he did eat it during the night but when not in a crate, I know that one of the GSP's are nicking it (he literally just leaves the ear laying there hence the theft) Now I know that some will say, why not just crate him in the same place that the other dogs sleep, but the fact of the matter is that the laundry where they all are simply id not big enough for two GSP size beds and a crate longterm. So, let me know what you think, do you think letting him sleep elsewhere could cause any acceptance issues in the day?

Ok, He has been to the vet, had a good going over in general plus an extra look to cover off any possible medical reasons that could cause such behaviour and he has a clean bill of health he also has three new volunteer owners should we ever get tired of him as all the staff at the vets wanted to take him home. On the type of treat used i totally understand that bread might not be the first choice for something soft but it was the softest thing I had on hand, I have also tried dried chunky liver dried thin liver ham cheese kibble mince strapz bacon he has taken some of them very and I mean very occasionally but none with consistency. I am not going to worry about it, as long as he is healthy in regard to training, he is so well behaved and adjusted there really is minimal training required, he doesn't wander or run off (he just stays in your general area), he sits down if you stand still, and if you are in a stationery position for more than a few minutes he lays down, he doesn't pull on the lead or in fact display any undesirable behaviour, so I think i'm going to let him continue to settle and take things at his own pace and then see how it goes from there, and see if he develops a taste for anything In regard to the suggestions regardingplay or tug, drive training would be very hard with him as unless there is a way to harness "sleep drive" you'd have a job, honestly, i have never known a more laid back dog, he shows no interest in toys or play, he genuinely just wants to snuggle up, and as fundamentally he was purchased as a dog for my 9 year old daughter to "look after" i should probably count my blessings as he will have no shortage of those! Thanks to all for their suggestions, they're much appreciated :)

He is definitely spitting it! he takes it (very gently, but he does everything gently) and then just drops it at his feet.

Nothing wrong with a bit of supposition Persephone, I had thought the same thing and will definitely be popping him to the vet for a good once over, i honestly don't think it's pain related, he just looks to happy, but will let you know if it turns out to be anything sinister/medical

we have tried wet and very little difference, the main point of difference between eating the treat seems to be the size of it not sure why that is the pressure point between acceptance or not but it seems to be the main factor :) i'll keep you informed. i honestly think that he is not that bothered hence why no reaction, he has walked away from his dinner every meal so far, he busts a gut to get to it, tucks in with relative gusto and then about 3/4 of the way through just loses interest and walks away. i honestly don't think that he has not learnt the behaviour as he is 2 and has lived all his life so far at a breeders with plenty of other dogs so you would think that he has had plenty of opportunity :laugh: I honestly think that he is so laid back that he just cant be bothered to chew it or defend it. not complaining, i've honestly never seen such a laid back, not bothered dog. :)

hi all, when i logged on with my iphone at the bpttom of every page is a link to an iphone app, i assumed it was "the" iphone app? :) it is the IPB one glodengirl85, have got it working? is it any good?

He definitely gets exited by the smell of the treat, I reckon physical praise will work with him but he does want the treat. I made a bit of a discovery yesterday in that it seems to be size related ie if using a torn of bit of strapz it can be no bigger than your thumb nail, any bigger and he spits it????? A but of a side note as well, if you give him a treat such as a sheep ear or whole strapz he will not just eat it, he will take it, drop it and eat it later if it is still there, if I, anyone else or one of my other dogs wants to take it, he lets them with seriously no reaction! If no one takes it and it is there a while later when he wakes up though he then eats it. He's a funny little man, but very lovable. ;-)

In all honesty the newbie is such a sweetie I would be surprised if he wanted to run with them lol he is interested in two things sleeping and hugs, and when I say hugs he's not an in your face attention grabber, but he loves a cuddle, he definitely seems more people oriented than my other dogs. Most of the time whilst the GSP's are lolliping around like pillocks he is laying on the bed asleep or at most watching what's going on. I have never met such a laid back, chilled out but happy dog in my life. I just want to make sure we keep him that way as I would not want to think of him feeling threatened in the slightest, which judging from his behavior so far he is not. Thanks for the replies do far, please keep em coming!

Hi Dolers, To set the scene, I have two Gsp's, a 6 year old make and 5 year old female. Male is a whatever dog, not fussed by anything and pretty non aggressive (he will defend himself but would rather play running like a dervish) my 5 year old female is a bit different, reactive to other dogs (especially on lead, no surprise there) but has never rushed a dog or motioned towards it when off the lead ie she will walk at the back of the beach rather than walk at the front if there is another dog there. Unfortunately she seems to be the most dominant of the two which is sad as she likes to be in charge but tends to panic under pressure and lash out (noise and aggressive motions) never connected a bite. So, that is the background, now the issue. Basically we have gained another pack member in the shape of a cocker spaniel, he is 2 and is the softest most placid, easy going dog I have ever met. Tail wags but never gets over excited, he is gorgeous. To integrate him we all met on neutral territory and "came together whilst walking next to each other, rather than head on" then after a good walk went home. On the whole it has been good as there has been no physical aggression from any of them . However, every now and again my female gives him a little "warning growl, no teeth showing just the chesty growl" My question is, should I reprimand her as it is not acceptable or as he seems to be responding to the growl with the correct evasive action, walks of or changes direction" just accept that this is part of him learning the "rules of this pack" as a side note, it does not seem to affect his demeanor other than where he is sitting or the direction he was traveling? If that makes sense? Hope that give you enough info to help me out with your opinions. Currently I am airing on the side of monitoring and letting them work it out (obviously watching closely for any sign of escalation from the GSP or signs of discomfort from the cocker)

Hi all as the description, has anyone got this working? I have tried my user name, the Dolforum, dogzonline and several different incarnations of the URL but computer says no! Any pointers (and I don't mean the canine kind :) )

Hi everyone, Bit of a strange one, we picked up a 2 year old Cocker yesterday and he is the softest dog I have ever met. He already loves my daughter (which is great as he is supposed to be "her dog". when I say soft I mean he is gentle (not particularly shy) a bit like a dog that thinks they are in trouble. :) Now, to the problem. We have fed him (beef mince as he had at home with some premium kibble 75% to 25% kibble. which he ate with no problems, however later on when we were trying to give him treats (for following a command such as sit or come) he would wag his tail and vigourously try and complete an action as he obviously wanted the treat, but once he got the treat, he would spit it out. we have tried liver treats, chicken biscuits (which i thought might be to crunchy?) so i tried some bread (as it was the only soft thing I had to hand at the time,) but with the same result, took the treat with gusto and then spat it out. I am going to ask the breeder what she used to use to see if he has a particular favourite. Any suggestions on here as to the cause and possible solutions? thanks all in advance for your help

No problem with that statement Aidan2, As I said before, many people learn a way of training and then blindly implement it based on faith and previous experience (despite previous experience being with a different animal in a different situation.) IMO they (ecollars) work in some situations better than other methods but at the same time, other methods are better employed to sort out other issues. Same as a toolkit, I wouldn't use a hammer on a screw or a tape measure for a saw. Right tool, right dog, righty situation applied correctly! That is what dog trainers should be striving for (IMHO) rather than "my tools better than your tool" and arguing over semantics. :) To me the right tool is (Worst case scenario) the one that achieves the desired result between handler and animal that can be implemented in the time frame available, that leaves a lasting behavioural result without leaving a lasting physical or mental scar. (note when I say lasting, i mean beyond the moment of implementation)

No worries, I'm going to bed soon anyway so will have to come back to this in the morning. I suppose the kind of "weighting" that I am talking about is that if i got kicked in the head whilst just walking down the street, I would perceive that impact as a certain level of "pain", but if during a game of rugby or in a sparring match, the same kick could go virtually unnoticed. The adrenaline rush and dopamine release in the later activities is changing my base level of pain perception hence the pain is weighted versus my current perception, ie I felt it less. i see little reason why the same would not apply to a stimuli that is applied to a dog, if they are in a high stress, drive distraction situation such as chasing a roo, why would their system not be releasing all the chemicals that the body does in such situations that shift your base level perception? After all knowing that you have cut your foot with the same level of perception that you would have normally is not going to help you catch that Roo, rabbit etc etc. Having the ability to not feel it at the same level of perceived "discomfort" though will help immensely. So basically what was a tap on the shoulder before, would have to be a harder tap on the shoulder once you have gone in to drive even though at the time they both felt like "taps on the shoulder".

ok, I think we are on the same page :) as in my example before with the trying to get someones attention when they are relaxed compared to trying to get their attention during a plane crash. The percieved input versus reaction (turning round to see who is trying to get your attention) is a much higher input but the perception by the recipient is the same (as it is being received and percieved in relation to the other stimuli) hence it elicits a similar response. where as if you tried to get the attention of someone sitting on the sofa resting with the same amount of vigour as you would in a plane crash the input would be seen as very OTT. basically what I am saying is, the stim is weighted versus the other stimuli and the side effects of the adrenaline rush to achieve the same perceived message to the recipient

But surely, as previously said, the stim level has to be found as a working level in that environment, hence why the level control is on the handset, doesn't mean that it is not being used at the lowest level to get a reaction/acknowledgement. I don't think anyone has said that you can use the collar on it's lowest level (ie 1) it is the dogs lowest working level, in the circumstances that it is being trained. I'm confused too, what are you questioning? I wasn't talking about the collar's lowest setting. Sorry Aidan, Maybe we are talking at crossed purposes but i can't think of a situation where you wouldn't have the expectation that you would have to turn it up should it be necessary, isn't that the entire idea? find the working level to get an acknowledgement? maybe I have misinterpreted what you class as a "higher" setting, from what was demonstrated to me, a high setting would have be 16-18 out of 127 to get an acknowledgement response. I took it that you meant a higher setting of what is available on the unit (which of course would elicit a far more violent response than a basic acknowledgement.) If that is not what you meant, Sorry for the misunderstanding. :)

No I will tell you what I said before every tool does not work with every dog, in every situation. There are many different dogs, with different drive levels and responses that are in an almost unimaginable amount of circumstances, and occasionally the correct tool is an ecollar, applied correctly, much the same as in a different scenario withholding the treat can be equally effective depending on circumstances and with an animal that responds to that approach. There is NO one size fits all way of training all dogs in all circumstances to complete or avoid all types of desirable or undesirable behaviours. That is what i will tell you. That is why I will never dismiss any training method, as IMO they all have their limitations, which unfortunately usually leads to someone trying to apply the wrong tool, to the wrong dog in the wrong circumstances due to some kind of blind faith that their one size fits all method is the only way.