Puppoochi

What if the dog dies two days after it was sent to them? Or before it was ever used at stud? Also you gotta remember that I have never met the person and the dog will be 2000 km away. Why should I pay for someone else's negligence. I have never had a dog die from misadventure, because I take care. I would expect the same. I would not agree or encourage that contract due to the misadventurous death part. However; I would rather see it stated that the co-owner would agree to pay for pet insurance against accidents and death; where the insurance company will refund cost price, and you could have 50% of that sent back if you so feel you deserve it. All you'd need to do is provide a receipt. Interesting, I didn't know we could insure dogs against death. Maybe I need to add that to the contract. thanks

What if the dog dies two days after it was sent to them? Or before it was ever used at stud? Also you gotta remember that I have never met the person and the dog will be 2000 km away. Why should I pay for someone else's negligence. I have never had a dog die from misadventure, because I take care. I would expect the same. Negligence and misadventure are two different things. Many DOL dog owners have lost a beloved pet through misadventure. A few recent housefires spring to mind. I would hardly call these owners negligent. Accidents happen, and all the 'taking care' in the world will not prevent this. Negligence is a whole other thing. Maybe a change of contract wording would help? Don't mean to sound pushy, but you did ask for opinions At the end of the day, they are your puppies and you need to be happy with where they go. Yes they are different but if a dog got out and got hit by a car, it would be negligence as they did not take adequate steps to insure the safety of it. It is still death by misadventure. BTW, the purchaser isn't even a member of Dogs QLD & was more concerned about the stud fees.

What if the dog dies two days after it was sent to them? Or before it was ever used at stud? Also you gotta remember that I have never met the person and the dog will be 2000 km away. Why should I pay for someone else's negligence. I have never had a dog die from misadventure, because I take care. I would expect the same.

This is the first co-ownership contract I have ever seen, so I don't know what's common. The death by misadventure part shocked me. What do you class as misadventure? Car accident? Dog attack? Snake bite? So, not only do you lose your beloved pet, you then have to pay his breeder $1000? Seems a bit harsh to me. I had a co-owned dog, the agreement was verbal. It was originally stated by the breeder that she would transfer him into my name after 12 months (as long as I was doing the right thing by him). He's now in my name. I know it may seem harsh but the dog is in their care, why should I personally lose out, in the event of an accident? They are after all getting it for half the going rate, less than what I would charge for a pet.

This week I was contacted by a person wanting a show quality pup from me, she was from QLD. She didn't care be dog or bitch, just something nice to show. I do have a boy available (Jackpot grandson). As I do not wish for the lines to go out to unscrupulous breeders, and I don't know her from Adam, I said that I would want to co-own, she was all for it until she saw my contract which I had to draft very quickly for her. She wanted to buy the dog outright and said she could get a dog for show for $800-$1000. I think that she's only started to look as I don't think my contract is all that bad. What do you all think? POODIFUL KENNELS CO-OWNERSHIP CONTRACT This agreement is between Elle Robinson, POODIFUL KENNELS (hereafter referred to as "the breeder") and ______________________ (hereafter referred to as "the co-owner") ________________________(hereafter refered to as "the dog"). The breeder of the dog will retain full breeding rights and co-ownership of the dog. The breeder reserves the right to not allow the dog out at public stud. If the breeder deems the dog fit for breeding, the breeder reserves the right to choose a bitch for the first mating. The breeder reserves the right to allow the dog out at public only after the dogs has been proven to be fertile. If there is an interest from another breeder to use the dog for stud services.The co-owner will notify the breeder, by telephone on 0413 768 692 and/or email [email protected] with the breeder's first preference being telephone. The breeder reserves the right to refuse stud services. The breeder reserves the right to decide the price of the stud fee, subject to current price trends. The co-owner shall receive 65% .of all stud service fees, the breeder shall receive 35% of all stud service fees. The co-owner will allow the breeder unrestricted access to the dog for breeding. The co-owner will be responsible for all vaccinations (excluding first puppy shots), veterinarian expenses, registration, and all day-to-day expenses for food and care for the life of the dog. The. Co-owner shall not neuter the dog without permission of breeder. The co-owner will be responsible for all show entries and grooming fees. If this contract is breached in any manner by the co-owner, the breeder has the right to terminate this contract and repossess the dog. Duty of care The co-owner will be solely responsible for the actions of the dog while in his day-to-day care. The dog is to be an (indoors) house pet, and not to spend its life as an outside dog. The dog is to live day-to-day with co-owner. The dog is never to be allowed to roam at large. Right of placement clause For the life of the dog, the co-owner will not re-home or give the dog away to anyone with out the permission of the breeder. For the life of the dog, if the co-owner can not keep the dog, the co-owner will return the dog to the breeder. Health problems If the dog shows commonly known genetically-related health complications pertaining to the Toy Poodle, the dog will be returned to the breeder and the breeder will either replace the dog within 12 months or give a one thousand ($1,000.00) refund. The co-owner may also decide to keep the dog and all medical expenses will be incurred by the co-owner. Death by misadventure In the event of death of the dog by misadventure whilst in the care of the co-owner, the co-owner will agree to pay the breeder one thousand dollars ($1,000.00) being two thousand dollars ($2,000) price of the dog, less one thousand($1,000) of original purchase price of co-ownership.

Way too young, it's against regulations. Irrespective of regulations, I let mine wean naturally, and my bitches have always let the bubs feed up until they are 8 weeks old or more. Poor lil bub. If you found this breeder on here, I would get in touch with TROY to let him know. I would also inform the controlling body of the state of where the pup is. This breeder is totally unethical. DO NOT BUY THIS PUPPY

thank you James, I thought it wasn't the case. It doesn't really make any sense.

Neither can I, Parkeyre, it defeats the purpose of having a limit register in the first place. Judge Judy says, " If it doesn't make sense, then it's not true" I'm with Judge Judy"

I don't know how true this is but I was told today a dog can be put onto the main register in SA without the breeder's permission???? Please tell me this is not true

Sorry but i find this post insulting to my intelligence.

bloody glitches grrrr :p

I live in a 2 bedroom single fronted VIC terrace and other than confinement, I can't rearrange. Ziggy knows that he is my housemate's dog and not mine, and I'm sure the lady will treat Elvis very well otherwise I wouldn't consider her. I don't know if I could deal with another loss atm though, I'm very fragile and crying a lot. You should see the bags under my eyes, YUK!!!! When I gave Marilyn to my friend, it was hard, but I dealt with it, but having just lost my dad, I just don't know how I'll cope without him(Elvis). We've been through tough times together and I love him to death. I haven't met the lady yet, and I would expect her to be my friend if I gave her my lil man. The funny thing is, she lives about 500mts, if not less from where Marilyn lives now in South Melb. Ultimately, I don't know how long I will be living with my housemate (Harry). We've been living together for 5 years this week and we get along famously, but we are just mates and nothing lasts forever. I just really wish that Elvis would just stop being a fighter, then I wouldn't have this dilemma. :p BTW, he doesn't give the girls a hard time at all.

I'm guessing that genetic technologies had to pay the company (Optigen) or whomever for the genetic marker for whatever affliction. i could be wrong, but I don't think they actually do the finding of the marker. Click here to see all the types of genetic markers for many different diseases, different prices for different diseases. I'm guessing the price differs because the cost to them differs

maybe that's why the forum is so slow??? I had to register to be able to post.

My boy Elvis keeps picking fights with his son Ziggy, I keep breaking them up. I watch Caesar Milan, and I am attempting to follow his instructions but the fights still keep happening. I've been thinking of re homing Elvis as Ziggy is not mine to re home, I gave him to my housemate. Friday I broke up 2 fights, shortly thereafter a local lady rang wanting an older dog, I told her about Elvis. She is coming by tomorrow to meet Elvis, so I groomed him today, however, while I was grooming him I was in tears. I love him so much, I just don't think I can do it. My father died last week and I'm somewhat hypersensitive atm. She sounds like a lovely lady and knowing she is local would mean I would still groom and see him, but still, I don't think I can give him up. There are 5 dogs here and I'm at my limit with the space that I have here. I have a Smash daughter that I plan to mate next season, but my housemate doesn't want another dog. My Smash Daughter will be 2 1/2 next season and it's time for her to have her 1st litter. My friend who bred her (it took a year of hassling her to use Jackpot) most certainly wants a baby from her, so I have no probs with the pick hitting the ring. My problem is that although Elvis has produced some nice stuff, I have no plan to use him in the near future, he's turning 7 soon and from a breeder's perspective, he's taking up the space of a new dog. I wish I wasn't so soft, I love him so much (as I do with all my dogs) I don't think I can give him up. I was thinking that maybe if I had him chemically castrated that he may settle down. Ziggy is 2 and has been chemically castrated for about 6 months now and has never had a mating. I'm so torn as I can't stand breaking up fights anymore. Will chemically castrating him settle him down, or will this just continue? Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Dont waste your time - if he knows the purebred world is upset with him he will love it - in fact he will use it against us. The only way he would think that you or I were upset, is if we projected it onto him. This is why I think venting here is fruitless. A rational debate on HIS site, would prove much more effective. I've already started a thread on his site,click here, if you don't want to ad to it, that's up to you. Personally,I can't see insulting him on here will achieve anything.

I love my buttercut blades, havn't nicked anyone since, and no clipperburn/rash. Haven't tried Laube

Rather than venting here, he has his own site with a forum where we can bombard him with our thoughts there!!!! Be polite, and make a rational argument, without insults. HE NEEDS FACTS, not to be berated, even though we disagree with him. A healthy debate on his site would be much more fruitful PM me if you can't find it and I'll pm the link

Careful now. Troy might not want to be hearing from DB's solicitor. Here say doesn't stand up in court

Thanks Julie, this has been very insightful for me, and at the same time, I feel stupid, ignorant and ill informed, along with having lost faith in our CC. I don't understand then if this is all true, how is it that the CC can suspend and fine a member for having bred 3 litters in 18months. Why can they suspend one member for breaching the code and not the other??? The other thing that really bothers me is that while I think DOL is a great place to showcase dogs and advertise studs and puppies, there are way too many breeders listed that do not, and have no interest in participating in CC activitivies, and more often than not the quality of dogs produced are obviously inferior. Just look at the Toy Poodle puppies for sale, to me it is very obvious that the majority of breeders are not breeding to improve the breed at all, they're just doing it for the almighty $. IMO it cheapens the breed and to tell you the truth, the majority of toy poodles I see walking around the street are incredibly badly bred.

Exactly. Not only that, the person may not have have broken any rules what so ever. We have a thing in this country called the trade practices act. That act takes precedence over all. If it didn't we could have put the word puppy farmer to rest. Does that mean that we can basically do anything we like despite what the Code of Ethics say, so long as it is for the benefit of financial gain? Surely not I'm so living in fairyland. If this is true, the whole pedigree show world is a farce.

Thanks for that Julie If you don't mind, would you care to share with us what $700pet bitch means to the breeder posting the ad.

hey Steve, thanks, email sent, however, if you tell her who you are first, she'd be an idiot admit to anything. If she doesn't the word entrapment comes to mind. Entrapment definition In criminal law, entrapment is when a law enforcement agent induces a person to commit an offense which the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit. In many jurisdictions, If a cop pretends he's a john, and hires a hooker, then charges her for soliciting, that is not entrapment because her intention WAS to solicit herself for $$$$ Sorry, I live in St Kilda and that's the first example that sprung to mind

Yes, but what does it imply to you??? A conformation call is needed, that's what I'm going on about. Is there something wrong with my written language, that ppl keep missing it???? It implies that people do not use the correct terminology. It implies to me that people are using the terminology of the layman. So in that case, who is the ad targeting? Registered breeders don't need layman's terms, whereas BYB might. Also, if you are telling me it only implies what you say, then why did I get the impression that this breeder doesn't care what she breeds her dogs to?

hey Steve, thanks, email sent, however, if you tell her who you are first, she'd be an idiot admit to anything.