Puppoochi

Thanks Hasty, Breed standards need to be revised for extreme breeds with health problems. And some breeders should bite the bullet and contribute blood samples. Pretty shameful I reckon. Having said that, this doco didn't show much of the good and only covered the bad. More and more breeders are doing testing to ensure they are breeding healthy dogs.

Repeat mating was offered, she didn't take the bitch back, she had plenty of time, the dog died only 2 months ago, she had almost a year and a half to go back. I doubt that she even has the same bitch, I've seen many ads here for adult dogs in the short amount of time she's been a member.

Apparently no progesterone tests were done on the bitch. And for someone that says "these dogs are my heart and soul" she sure has re-homed a lot of adults in the past year. Also is it not perjury to claim you're not a dog breeder when in fact you are a registered breeder and have bred dogs??? Hmmm I think it was the lady who had the bitch that said she was not a breeder. Not the breeder who studded out her male dog. they are both registered breeders. Also if she wanted to show, she would have done so already. I know more about her than I'd care to tell just in case I get into trouble.

Apparently no progesterone tests were done on the bitch. And for someone that says all she wanted was to get her bitch pregnant and produce a nice puppy to keep as a pet, she sure has re-homed a lot of adults in the past year. Also is it not perjury to claim you're not a dog breeder when in fact you are a registered breeder and have bred dogs??? Hmmm

I never said you called all big dog owners idiots, just that all sizes and breeds of dogs can have idiot owners. We need to concentrate on the problem and instead of banning breeds which just makes them more attractive to the people who want tough, illegal dogs deal with the owners. Make is compulsory to do obedience courses, make it so instead of registration, dog owners have to go through a course and get a license. Regulate owners not dogs. 4 Pitbulls Maul Us Woman To Death is the title of this thread. Pitbulls have the capacity to kill one of my little ones in a second.If 4 little dogs came charging at me, I would be able to defend myself, I've got feet, I can kick and punch them. My dogs do not pose a threat, nor are they intimidating in the slightest, unless you've got a phobia, why should I have to go to obedience so people should be aloud to walk around with intimidating dogs that from my experience have almost killed one of mine? Ahhh ok I see so it is ok for little dogs to be running around hassling people off lead because we can just kick them away??? I doubt the owners would be happy when their little off lead dog ran up to my on lead dog and got bitten. People are allowed to walk around with "intimidating" dogs now. Pitbull's are only 1 of many "intimidating" breeds out there. twist what i'm saying why don't you, i'm out of here, can't be bothered once people start twisting my words!!!!!

I never said you called all big dog owners idiots, just that all sizes and breeds of dogs can have idiot owners. We need to concentrate on the problem and instead of banning breeds which just makes them more attractive to the people who want tough, illegal dogs deal with the owners. Make is compulsory to do obedience courses, make it so instead of registration, dog owners have to go through a course and get a license. Regulate owners not dogs. 4 Pitbulls Maul Us Woman To Death is the title of this thread. Pitbulls have the capacity to kill one of my little ones in a second.If 4 little dogs came charging at me, I would be able to defend myself, I've got feet, I can kick and punch them. My dogs do not pose a threat, nor are they intimidating in the slightest, unless you've got a phobia, why should I have to go to obedience so people should be aloud to walk around with intimidating dogs that from my experience have almost killed one of mine?

I was referring to the likes of the guy and all like him that don't have any control over their dogs, please don't twist my words.... Just because someone has a large dog doesn't make them an idiot.

And with that attitude we will never change your mind so we are wasting our time with you. You have taken one bad experience and now you judge not only an entire breed but a group of breeds. No one has personally insulted you....I see no insults This behaviour might be reflected from your feelings? If you are always on edge when you go out of course they will pick up on it. That is exactly right Dogsrawesome. follow the red quotes!!!And what attitude is that? Because I don't wish to own a dog that could intimidate others? And the personal insults don't have to be directed at me to be there in black and white!!!

I can't see where you have been insulted, poodiful1? I wasn't, but Joe sure was, see post 47, and your doubt over his crudentials is insulting to him if he has them, English is not Joe's first language. And the too bad for you attitude of post 46 towards me, instead of being constuctive. I on the other hand take responsibility as it's my obligation to be as informative as possible about Toy Poodles, and if I don't have the answer, I try to find it.

Oh I might ad, this incident had a profound affect on my girl Maddie, who now has a fear of all other breeds, I'll never win anything in group with her because of it. And I don't know how to get her out of the mindset that other breeds are dangerous.

Thank you. JoeK - I am anti-BSL and a Bull Breed owner (An "Amstaff" and a BullArab type crossbreed) I am well aware of the pre-disposition that some breeds of dogs and many breeds of bullies have to aggression. I am aware of it and I take measures to make sure my now 9 months old Amstaff X has the best chance to be a well socialised ambassador for her breed. It is this acceptance and the resulting training/socilaising that is the difference between a responsible owner and an irresponsible one. You will find that the "Anti-BSL club" is pointing out that it is the irresponsible owners who take no steps to prevent their dog becoming aggressive or worse the people who also mistreat them that cause the aggressive side to become dominant and dangerous not that the dogs do not have the pre-disposition. Many times the irresponsible owners are just ignorant and do not realise the training they need to put in and then don't manage the dogs correctly.(I certinaly was when I got my first dog and she now has DA issues but you know what I acknowledge that, I acknowledge my part in her issues and I am responsible when it comes to her now ie: making sure she cannot escape and not putting her into situations that will compromise her) Look at it this way if we wipe out the pit bulls what breed is next?? How many breeds are wiped off the face of the plant before you will realise BSL is a load of tosh created to make the public feel safe and the politics look good. Maybe when the only dogs allowed are under 10kgs?? Poodiful We will never change everyone's mind I guess. Maybe one day you will own a breed who has a bad reputation and then you will understand the frustration and sadness that it causes when people belittle and demonize not only the breed but in turn your dog. Hell will freeze over before I ever own a dog that will have people shaking in their boots at the mere sight of my dog. I am personally not afraid of any particular breed, what I am afraid of is what they can potentially do to one of my little ones. I also have to keep a watchful eye out whenever I am out with mine. They really don't have the capacity to protect themselves, so when threatened, my dogs have no alternative but to flee. I was once at Elsterwick Park with my 5 guys when a bull x came charging up from 100 metres away, this dog zoned into my one girl Gracie, she fled, the owner was very far away, had no recall, Gracie was running to save her life, and was chased onto the road, I was standing there calling Gacie, but I was helpless to do anything, I had 4 other dogs with me, and I had the think of the safety of all my dogs. It took about 2 minutes for the owner to catch his dog, only then was Gracie free to run back to me. I was just lucky that little Gracie was a little faster and more agile to avoid the jaws of death of this dog. And the too bad attitude people have in this kind of circumstance, forcing me to be on full alert at all times when out with my dogs. I have many stories of how my littlies have been threatened by larger dogs with idiot owners. Unless there is a strategy, to alleviate such circumstances, I'm all for it, but personal insults won't help me to change my mind, it's hardly constructive now is it?

Having a different opinion to these people, and trying to get people to see it from another perspective, leads these people to insult and belittle and an I couldn't care less what you think attitude. It is a true reflection to the mentality of the kinds of people that are so intent on having breeds with bad reputations.

well said actually that quote is a load of excrement.. a myth perperated by the ignorant., try getting innformation from those who are knowledgable about dogs, training and the pitbull. Diane Jessup is an acknowledged pitbull 'expert' and her site give a warts and all opinion. I have immense respect for her. I also have had the joy of sharing part of my lifes journey with Jake.. a pitbull rescued from fighting. Jake stole my heart then shattered it into a million pieces 6 years later when he died.... No pitbull are not for every dog owner, just as livestock guardian breeds are bot suitable for all dog owners, http://www.workingpitbull.com/ Helen In memory of Jake I am thinking Diane Jessup should learn why a dog bites which applies to any dog. I have trained 4 Pitbulls in protection in Europe, compared with German Shepherd Dog and Rottweiler they are hard dog to switch off the bite and too foggy in the head in active aggression is the reason why professional dont using these dogs. They have very high thresholding on the pain much higher than Shepherd Dog and Rottweiler,is not Pitbull are bad dog, they having some very nice working quality but can be very dangerous dog in the wrong hands. Becuase someone had nice Pitbull not hurting a fly, I have Shepherd Dogs like this too and ones with the right combination in the dominant genes want to kill everyone serious in the social aggression can happen in this breeds more than others breeds is very unlikely. Is time the Pitbull people taking the color from their spectical and looking through the clear glass in my opinion and who letting the team down is idiots who breed aggression in the dogs and sell them to anyone is the problem. If the dogs breeding in social agression was sold to people handling these dog properly like happenning with the Shepherd Dog and Rottweiler most of this Pitbull problems disapperaing. Is the people dealing in this dogs is the problem where it begins which needing some control. Same applying to breeding cross genetics of bit Mastiff, bit of Pitbull and bit of Rottweiler is stupid breeding on my opinion, mix all these breeds up with potential for aggressive traits is going to come out aggressive on some dogs for sure. Expert breeders on the working dogs get it wrong on the balance of nerve and aggression, this people knowing what they do and people doing a backyard presentation to stick on the Gumtree add for cheap Bull breeding of cross genes what temperament quality comes from this I am asking? Breed the proper Pitbull is no worries and sell them to people on the credential to own them is ok, but this bit of Mastiff and bit of Staffy and bit of Pitbull breedings on the backyard needing to get rid of this and people wanting a dog buy a proper one with the stable in the nerve and temperament for community adaption for the pet. Sure I agree is owners fault this dogs get out and kill the lady on the street, but the point is this poor lady go for a walk and she dont come home becuase 4 dogs killing her in attack. Is very high in active aggression for dogs to do this regardless of the breed is aggression level that does the killing not becuase the dog escaping the yard. If she having 4 Silky Terrier run from the yard the likelihood she die is minimal is what the breed argument comes about. Deed is too late for the punishment to help this lady when she dead. Joe again very well said, and may I ad without any arrogance, or personal insults and belittling attached

well said

I agree that my breed most certainly does not appeal to the types of people that want to scare others with their dogs. But I most certainly do not agree that there are no dangerous dogs, otherwise this poor lady would still be alive today, and I could kick a toy poodle from here to the gold coast if one was to threaten me. What's your solution to stop undesirables owning dangerous breeds capable of killing? It would be nice to have an answer to that question, I think maybe mandatory obedience or socialisation training classes for all dogs and their owners to a certain degree. I realise this wont happen but maybe for the sake of us all being able to own the dog breed of our choice we need to find a way to make dogs harder to be obtained by those not wanting a dog for the right reason, I hope one day we find a way to stop undesireable dog owners but until that time we must try and keep a rational view point about Pit Bulls, they are not sociopaths with hairline triggers and an inbuilt kill switch. They are dogs just like any other breed or type,they respond to love and praise and are highly trainable canines, they deserve our love, tolerence and to be honest they need our help as we must not let the actions of some people cause the extinction of a breed. Once the Pit Bull is gone, which breed will be the next one demonised, I am not a Pit Bull lover, I am a dog lover and I hope that when I judge a dog I look beyond its breed and look to the more important traits. See the problem I have with what you're saying here is that, some breeds or even cross breeds that are bred to protect, guard, and/or fight and I believe do pose a greater threat or danger to the general public and/or their animals, than others breeds do, that were bred for different reasons. People with certain mentalities are drawn to owning dogs that can intimidate and harm other people and animals. It is these people that have ruined it for everybody else. Was a bow and arrow invented to kill other people, or was it invented to serve as a tool to hunt animals to provide food, I'm more inclined to go for the latter, however that does not mean that the bow and arrow was not used to kill and maim other people. Guns were invented to kill and maim other people, yes, but not all people that have guns use them for that purpose. We have strict gun legislation in Australia, and if you compare Australia to the US, we have a much lower rate of gun fatalities per capita than they do. Why do you suppose that is? Also since the gun buyback sceme, gun homicides have decrease, see some interesting stats here I guess the government sees certain animals as a threat and danger to the general community and/or the environment, so there are tight restrictions and legislation to keep Australia as safe as possible. You know I love Daddy, he's a great ambassador of the breed, such a wise old man, RIP. Daddy was in the right hands and he was guided by the right owner to be that way. But there are still many dogs that fall into the wrong hands, so knowing the capabilities of some breeds and the likelihood of certain types to want to own potentially dangerous breeds, I guess has forced the government to have BSL. I guess they see certain breeds as a risk and a danger, and it is their responsible to keep the community safe from what can be in the wrong hands a dangerous threat. These people have given the breeds a bad rap. You know guys, I don't know what strategies you have come up with to change legislation, I guess because of the way you all belittle someone on this forum if they happen to think something contrary to what you believe to be right, it turns them away, they go from personal experience and what what they read in the news. My dogs have been threatened by all types of breeds, so therefore when I take my dogs for a walk, and run in the park, I must be very careful to look what's around, one munch and they could be gone. I am frightened of dogs that are bred to be dog aggressive, I don't know whether the owners of such dogs are good responsible owners or not, now do I? As I would find someone wearing and openly displaying a gun as a threat, I feel likewise when I see a dog that could kill one of my dogs in one bite as a threat. I'm part of the public, and this is my public opinion. You catch more bees with honey than you do with vinegar, what are your strategies? How do you convince someone with my mindset, to change my their mind about BSL?

I agree that my breed most certainly does not appeal to the types of people that want to scare others with their dogs. But I most certainly do not agree that there are no dangerous dogs, otherwise this poor lady would still be alive today, and I could kick a toy poodle from here to the gold coast if one was to threaten me. What's your solution to stop undesirables owning dangerous breeds capable of killing?

there are certain types of people that own guns that shouldn't, there are certain types of people that own dangerous animals that shouldn't. These people have ruined it for the rest of the people that are responsible. It is too easy to own a dangerous breed

I dont get your comparison of guns and Pit Bulls? We have gun legislation to keep guns out of the hands of criminals( doesn't seem to be working) and to keep track of where fire arms are. We have BSL to take loved family members from their homes and kill them without mercy, remember BSL targets the responsible owner who has registered their dog, the irresponsible owner has their dog chained in the backyard and enjoys the noteriety of having an "illegal" dog. Your relpy doesn't answer the first question

What was the pit bull bred for and what was a gun invented for? Why do we have a gun legislation in this country?

Jan Cameron is an angel!!!! But I do tend to think that she is dreaming thinking that by making this happen will an end the cycle of destruction of having to kill hundreds of thousands of animals every year that are not wanted. Don't get me wrong by misinterpreting my comment and thinking that I don't think it's a good idea what she's doing, but I do really wish that she would put some $$$s into stopping pets sold in pet stores and putting a stop to puppy mills. I love Jan Cameron, she's my hero!!!!

Well said.. tybrax I guess Rally Valley was just going on on past experience

I don't take kindly to be accused of being an animal abuser Front page of The Age,

Toy or Mini Poodle, but they must be groomed every 6-8 weeks.

I am making a formal apology to The Toy Poodle Society of Victoria, it's committee and it's secretary for having started a thread that may have defamed and/or misrepresented the club and it's committee.

Are you a member of your local breed club (if there is one)? Yes If you are a member, what kinds of activities take place that you are involved in? Toy Poodle Society of Victoria Members Competitions including pet classes, Open Shows and Championship Shows Poodle Club of Victoria Members Competitions including pet classes, Open Shows ,Championship Shows and obedience trials. Poodle Club also have a stand at Melbourne Pet Expo What kinds of activities would you like to see more of in your local breed club? I'd like to see a Big Day Out just for Poodles. Location, preferable Albert Park Lake. Is your breed club involved in Breed rescue? The Poodle Club of Victoria is. Sorry I Just Can't Stop looking at this picture