SkySoaringMagpie

In how many generations would you get a generic pet dog?

What are the characteristics of pet line breeding?

Actually it was the thread in the Show Ring about Supreme Champions. Not just that thread, but the discussions that immediately followed the changes to the Gr Ch and Supreme Ch titles. I wonder sometimes if we're encouraging the right sort of goals in pure breed dog world. Nothing wrong with titles to the extent they reflect achievement, but I'd give over any Supreme Title for a litter of dogs that all lived to 15, for example. I was wondering what goals people had personally set for themselves, but didn't want to lead with "is there not something other than titles guys??" EFS

What is your goal with your dogs? Titles? Wins? Other achievements? Health? Fitness? Life skills? Do you have a goal? Do you have a philosophy that guides your efforts in dogs?

I will bend over backwards and every which way for a Saluki or an Afghan. I won't for other breeds and mixed breeds. As we are a wide and diverse community I don't see a problem with that. Resources are finite, rescuers have different expertise, and people prioritise as they see fit. While his age was a factor, I'm sure the fact he was a pure bred Gordon was also a factor. It doesn't mean that his life is worth more than any other life, but this is a pure breed forum, and given the ethics many pure breed people live by, it's bothersome to see any papered dog wind up in rescue, and many people (including myself) tend to put out more effort to "clean up after our own".

Love the wings!

I think you will find most dogs operating in a pack structure are just as likely to attack as a pack of bull breed dogs. Again it has nothing to do with breed. I am not pro BSL, but I would rather encounter 4 off lead Beagles than 4 off lead Pit Bulls any day. EFS

Agree, and layers of security and having dogs separated are a big part of this. Eg, unsupervised dogs housed in well built, roofed runs put into concrete, which are then behind a decent, strong, fence with locked gates. And dogs off the property walked on lead. And if you can't afford it or don't want to, you can't have multiple large hunting or fighting heritage breeds. If it matters, we have 1 giant breed male, and 7 other large dogs who would hunt in a pack if released. I have always taken this seriously, because, apart from anything else, I love my dogs. And having lived next door to a frequently escaping DA dog, I know what a menace even a single roaming dog can be. Four doesn't bear thinking about.

If it's correct that the dogs were declared dangerous, and they were out in the streets offleash attacking people and other dogs with owners nearby who "rounded them up" after the attack, then there is no need for new laws - just enforce the existing ones and throw the book at the owners of the dogs.

If it was me I would delete the photos. You could do what someone wanting a bulldog did recently and ask who people here would suggest. If someone said to me "I want a good quality true to type Pom" I'd send them to talk to Dot Williams from Chimere.

I am not a pom expert, so I can't give you an opinion. I will say it is a risky move to ask the views of strangers in public - for various reasons you may not get a realistic answer and you may put the breeder offside. Many people are sensitive these days about a) others putting up public pictures of their dogs online & b) those dogs being critically critiqued in public. The breed groups on FB are full of drama that arises from these two things. I am not commenting on whether I think that's right or wrong, just saying that it's a source of potential hassle. If I was new to Poms, and I wanted to show, I would pick a breeder who has success in the ring (look at the pointscores) and then ask a helpful all breeds judge or experienced toy person if they would be prepared to give me a quiet, private opinion on the dog I was considering. I would listen to Pom people, but I would bear breed politics in mind. This comment is not supposed to reflect poorly on Pom people. For all I know they are lovely people who all get on. I'm just going on my own breed :laugh: PS - We once asked someone an opinion about a dog we were thinking of purchasing and they weren't aware that the litter existed and they hopped in ahead of us, got a pup and we missed out. So another trap for young players!

http://www.news.com.au/national/guide-dog-mauled-to-death-by-pit-bulls/story-fndo4cq1-1226447407343 A GUIDE dog has been killed after a horrific attack by four pit bulls in Melbourne's northeast. Alan, 25, was walking his brother's guide dog and another pet dog in Bellfield last night, when a pack of unrestrained pit bulls suddenly mauled them. The terrified guide dog, called Matilda, was chased by the dogs onto a busy road and was hit by a car, killing her. A family Cocker Spaniel, called Bosley, is in hospital with deep lacerations after the attack. Alan told 3AW radio this morning that two men rounded up the four pit bulls and quickly left the scene in Plunkett St at 8.40pm. Victoria Police is investigating and searching for the owner of the pit bulls. "We have been told that a 25-year-old Ivanhoe man was walking two dogs along Plunkett towards Bell Street when a pack of four pit bull-type dogs rushed him," a police spokesman said. "One of the victims dogs, an off duty guide dog, broke free and ran onto Bell Street where it was hit by a car and later died. "The other dog received lacerations before the pack ran off." Police are working closely with Banyule Council to find the dog owner responsible. "Initial statements have been taken and members have door knocked the local area in an attempt to find the dogs or their owners," the spokesman said. "A number of inquiries are being made and the investigation is ongoing." Alan told 3AW he was also bitten in the attack and needed hospital treatment. The State Government enacted dangerous dog laws after a four-year-old was killed by a pit bull in September last year.

Thanks everyone, that has settled the questions I had after Tobie posted. Alyosha, it's always useful to understand the lore as well as the law

That's interesting, Sloughi is listed - has someone quietly imported one?

I definitely agree with this, and in fact when we were having difficulty with a severe aggression problem ourselves it was what decided us to PTS rather than rehome. I was surprised by the number of people who felt that we could have done something else and who genuinely believe that no dog is unrecoverable. As we've already discussed in this thread, PTS can provoke strong reactions from armchair experts who don't have to spend the money or the time or the emotional energy. So we're all under a subtle and not so subtle pressure not to go down that path. The reason I haven't taken that course with the current rescue is that I'm not dealing with aggression and my assessment is that with a home familiar with the breed or another primitive breed can easily manage her. Perhaps something else that is going on here is that people with some breeds already expect to have proofed the yard to a certain standard (Basenji, Saluki, Sibe etc). We've had lots of inquiries over the years from people who thought they could just do as they did with their old cattledog and the Saluki would stick by the house. But not even AWR would home to no fences I would have thought? Also agree about dog people not being created equal, there are lots of reasons for it but just as the charming person on the phone is sometimes a nightmare and the socially awkward person turns out to be great, we homecheck anyway, no matter what their resume. Perhaps being a show person this is a lesson I've learned already, there are some people who've been in dogs for years who just get rid of anything that can't cope with their hamfisted efforts. And that's the flip side of this coin, we have to find balance. I mean, part of the reason some people want a rescue is to contribute to society. So I don't see a problem with asking for some effort, providing the person understands exactly before they take it on, and I am confident they do, what will be required. Severe behavioural problems don't fall under "some effort" tho'.

This really struck a chord with me. Really beautifully put.

A list of behaviours where if the foster carer is super-dedicated, manages the dog carefully, and expert behavioural advice is taken, the dog is likely to behave without incident in foster care. If the dog is then adopted out to the average pet owner, it is likely to revert to form. So I would consider a dog with a history of any of those things as unfit for adoption. I'm pondering this at the moment, I've got one here who is totally easy for my OH and l. The easiest foster we've had here in fact. She was surrendered as an escape artist - but the owner admitted the fences were in disrepair and only 4 foot high. She was also surrendered as anxious and destructive, but keeping a "cool" but routine relationship with her in a pack of dogs of her own breed has reduced that anxiety down to almost nothing. The first night she was here she chewed some slats on some blinds but since then has been fine, I can crate her without incident for reasonable periods of time, and kennel her as well. I believe homed to an experienced breed home where someone is home most of the time she'll do well, homed to an inexperienced home, particularly one where they work full time, she would likely be a spectacular disaster. The thing is, we have her mostly because the previous owner could not countenance euthanasia once things got too hard and if she stayed where she was she was heading down to the destination that most escaping dogs with no road sense end up. Yet looking at the Ned thread, I'm inclined to agree with Nekhbet. I am confident that in the right hands she will be fine, and indeed, a charming and sweet companion. But it's going to take the right home - because she's so easy and there is good support for breed rescue for our breed she can stay here until it turns up. I think one of the major issues is rescuing whole litters of hard to home dogs. I've seen two in the last 18 months, and both litters have had multiple bounces out of their new homes - one spent nearly a year institutionalised before even a foster place could be found. At the time a couple of us hesitatingly said "hmm, perhaps PTS would be best" but the idea of euthing even half the pups is very hard for people to come to terms with. Unfortunately what it means is that a certain percentage cycle back through the system again, which is not good for them or for the people who have to clean up. So what we have to think about for next time is whether we argue hard for euthanasia, and wear the people chattering about how we only want to put them down so they don't take home options for our own breeding, etc etc. I will be, it's no life for a high needs breed dog to be shunted or left as a backyard lawn ornament. Edited to say that with anxiety including separation anxiety, it is often misdiagnosed, particularly in a breed context. My breed has a reputation for anxiety based behaviours, but in fact while some are anxious, others are displaying frustration and boredom intolerance instead. The one we have definitely falls into the latter camp, which will be why with someone who sets and maintains boundaries and gives her things to do she is fine. With someone who can be easily trained by a dog, she would be a mess. Either way tho', without appropriate assessment and guidance for the new home, it amounts to the same thing - an unmanageable situation.

x 2. Thanks for giving it a serious and well informed try, and for taking the responsible decision when it had to be taken.

A dog isn't automatically a dangerous dog simply because it has performed the behaviour, it has to be declared as such by the Council. A 'proposed dangerous dog' would be the equivalent of a dog with a Notice of Intent to declare it dangerous. There are provisions while the dog has a notice on it (leashed/muzzled) and the owners have time to submit representations as to why the oppose the proposed order. So does this mean that even if the dog is presented with a verbal report of "he killed a sheep" the dog could still be rehomed responsibly - for example, to an inner suburban setting ?

That's interesting, thanks for the link to the legislation. The status of "dangerous dog" still has to be declared to take effect tho' doesn't it? I suppose the tricky bit is if you disclose the history, you might trigger that provision? I can't find any definition of "proposed dangerous dog" in the legislation. Tricky, because there are plenty of dogs that are not "dangerous" merely because they are owned by people who are responsible and don't allow them ever to get into a situation where they can kill a chook (or whatever). Mine for example, I wouldn't let them anywhere near chooks - they've never killed one, not because they wouldn't but because they don't get to!!

Agree with this, the prices that are being quoted are not beyond what you would need to pay for treatment for a number of veterinary conditions.

I see he's been rehomed but the listing still says Sloughi. I'm hoping after they got my note they informed the adopter that he wasn't a Sloughi.

1. My foster is currently eating Royal Canin like my own dogs but some people have said that perhaps it's better to feed a cheaper dog food because a lot of adopters may not want to feed a premium kibble. I've also had fosters turn up their noses at Royal Canin but tuck into supermarket kibble. I graduate them onto what I want them to eat and treat them just the same as my dogs with food. 2. My foster sleeps in our bedroom in a crate right now. Do you let your fosters sleep in the same place as your dogs or do you have them sleep in the kitchen/laundry/other room so that it's easier to make the adjustment to a new home? We are fostering working breeds, so it's possible that some families may want the dog to be an outside dog. We won't home to people who want an outside only dog, the dog has to be indoors to sleep. However, I never allow them in our bedroom as I figure it is better for them to learn to live with standard sorts of restrictions. If the new owners want to invite them into their bedroom it will be easy enough, but if they don't want the dog in their bedroom I've made their job harder if I allow it. FWIW, none of our males are allowed in the bedroom either, so it's not like they are poor cousin out there in the living room all by themselves. 3. Do people let their foster dogs onto their bed/sofas? Our two are allowed but I'm hesitant about doing it with Ollie in case his future family doesn't want dogs on the sofa/bed and it's better to train him NOT to go up there in the first place ... Any views? I allow them on furniture, because there is a kind of "couch culture" for rescue sighthounds and it would be unusual for an adopter to want them on the floor only and a strike against them for a future home unless everything else about the home was awesome and I knew they provided really good supportive beds on the floor. That said, mine also get used to sleeping on beds on the floor. 4. Is the first foster the hardest one to let go of i.e. does it get easier? I get a bit misty-eyed when I think about handing over Ollie to a new home. He was at the pound and kennels for so long and he clearly LOVES being in a home surrounded by people and other dogs - he acts like THIS is his new home. I know dogs are very adaptable but it does cause me a bit of a pang to think of making him change scenes again. I think it varies, sometimes they are going to a home that has had rescue Afghans or Salukis since the year dot, an impeccable resume, and well known. Then I find it quite easy because I know they're going to someone who can give more than I can. Where you're adopting out to someone who hasn't had the breeds before, it can be a little harder because you second guess yourself sometimes about whether you've made the right decision. The key thing is to check for arrogance (do I think I'm so fantastic that anyone else is a step down? If so I need a reality check) and check selfishness (do I just want this dog for myself, is that fair on the dog and my dogs?). 5. What are your basic criteria that you have for a dog before you rehome it in terms of training? We have a checklist of training requirements and Ollie's doing very well so far but I'm curious about what other people expect before they rehome a dog. Friendliness is a given because we will not foster any dog that is not dog-friendly. House training, jumping, any pushy behaviours like pulling on the lead - basically anything that got them into the situation they are in (if that applies, it doesn't always). I also think that if a dog has tendencies that are likely to reappear once my training and management regime is removed it's important to inform the adopter of this and supply a training sheet/information.

better let AAPS know that as they have a Sloughi x listed here in Vic ... looks more like anatolian mix http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/157410

Having been in a situation where we put a much loved dog to sleep for behavioural issues (not stock chasing), there are few things more galling than having people second guess your decision. FWIW, I do agree that stock chasers can either be confined or rehomed to secure suburban homes so that stock is not at risk. However, the dog is now dead, and I agree with Sheridan, why don't we just let it alone and be happy for Ned. What I or anyone else thinks doesn't matter anymore. I'd not like this thread to go poof considering that we're all keen to hear how Ned gets on.