SkySoaringMagpie

Can you say more about this?

Dog geek: Being able to reach the conclusion I have - to abort the litter, and concentrate on using the bitch puppy with better conformation - will leave me with a feeling of having made the correct choice rather than than the easy choice. At some point all of us face up to this choice, and I have found the maxim that the correct choice is often (not always) the hard one is a good reality check. It is hard, especially when you see people around you playing fast and loose and/or getting immediate rewards for that. I think Espinay is wise tho' when she observes that the price for quick gains in one area may well be to seriously put you back overall. Feel free to PM me if you like, I had to abort a much wanted litter last year for different reasons and it is a tough thing to go through, not the least of which because you have to stick to your guns about what is best for the bitch and the breed against the temptation to just let it all slide on through. I am a dyed in the wool rational, atheist, feminist but even I felt sick on the way to the vet and shed a few tears on the way home. Now tho' I know I did the right thing, and I am glad of it. Dog geek: I perhaps have been at times deliberately ingenuous, and admittedly snide in my references to other Pom breeders. Other breeders are what they are. You know what I think on that score from our experiences in rescue. Like you I've done a ton of preparation but I'm still having moments where I find myself seeing why people do what previously seemed inexplicable to me. Some things are always going to be beyond the pale: raising dogs in filth, using the same top winning dog even tho' it keeps throwing problems, etc etc. But there are good breeders out there, and learning and theory has to be accompanied by practice and experience. Even the bad ones have stuff to teach us, if only as an example of what not to do. This is experience of course, even tho' the litter is not to be, you've learned a tough lesson that will stay with you. And if you can do the right thing here, you will set yourself up to continue to do the right thing, working your "ethics" muscle as it were. It's like the advice I've heard given to new judges, that is, don't start by judging crooked appointments because if you start, you won't be able to stop.

In the ACT there is a publicised set up time (midday the day before), and the office manager watches and has a word with anyone attempting it prior. This is hard work, there are always people who think they don't have to bother with the rules and they are usually not the sort of people who say "oh sorry, my mistake" and wander away again. :laugh: For stuff that does go up, in the past it's been taken down by committees who have objected to it strongly enough to enforce the rules. That means the committee needs to have access to a few burly, helpful and hard to intimidate people to take all the material up and stow it and the show sec has to be prepared to cop the "omigod, where is my gazebo, how very dare you!" whining the next day Dog world is full of cronyism, and if people have been allowed "special consideration" it's hard to unwind. Perhaps they would be better off allowing set up once the ground staff have finished preparing the grounds. I like the orange tape or bike lock idea too.

I've been pondering this over the last few days Nic, because I what I was reading here didn't tally with the person I know who has worked her butt off on welfare issues. If this were me, and I concede that it is not and that having Afghans, Salukis and IW influences my thinking, I would not travel this path. I think dogs, even toy dogs, need to be able to walk easily and soundly throughout their lives. Cruciate surgery is a huge money spinner for vets performing it, it is frequently over/misdiagnosed and I would not knowingly breed and sell dogs that were almost certain to send their owners (or me) a big vet bill. Pat Hastings said a lot of useful things when she was out here about the influence poor construction has on a dog throughout its whole life, including the influence on its temperament. She made a great deal of sense to me, we all know what a back back or dodgy knee does to our own disposition. I've wondered before whether some of the "little shit" behaviour manifested in many toys can be tracked back to construction. If I had the space and capacity to run on entire litters, and I felt the issue I was trying to preserve/fix was sufficiently important, I'd continue with the breeding and work with what I got, being fully prepared to euth dogs that weren't going to be part of the program and couldn't be rehomed as companions. To home a dog as a companion I feel it must be physically sound. Of all the things one could work on in poms, I confess I'm a bit stumped about why you would pick colour over construction. I agree with Tash that we all have conversations in our heads, but the conversation in my head always gets down to whether it's going to affect the dog's quality of life, and whether it would be ethical to sell it on a) for a pet and b) to go into someone else's program. Yes there are things we sometimes make a decision to live with like white haws, a not stunning ear set, not quite long enough tail etc. In my mind those things are different to iffy hearts, serious physical construction issues, dogs in the line all dropping dead before the age of 7 etc. I'd put the muzzles AND the cruciates in the serious physical construction issue category. Mouths it would depend what it was and how bad in a toy breed. Obviously for a gundog or a hound the mouth becomes much more important. I do agree with Tash that Nic is unusual in her honesty and will pay for that. I'm perhaps in the reverse position, in that I have quietly kept excluding things in my own program to the point where it's taken me a few years to be happy with what I have planned for this year. This process of exclusion, and learning about and living with the things i had to consider has certainly decided me on what I am prepared to sell as a companion and what I am not. Edit: Perhaps not clear here that the point I'm making is that over that time a few people have advised me to just breed something, or continue with a mismate etc because I was taking too long to get involved. I have run into dead ends too. I'm looking for a healthy, sound, classic Saluki. Ticking one of those boxes is easy, ticking all three is tough. There have been a few times when I've thought - "jeez, I have no idea what to do now" and been quite upset about it. What happened for me was that a dog that wasn't available to me became available to me after the breeder had used him and was happy with what she got. That took a few years. Doors will open, if you give it time. Unfortunately I think this thread will already have made its way around pom breeders everywhere, and your job will perhaps now be a longer and more difficult one.

A useful article to to show why FTGHing animals isn't a good idea.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093499/Condo-board-Nick-Santino-suicide-fault-despite-anti-dog-rules.html The condo board whose rules drove Nick Santino to euthanize his beloved put bull was not responsible for the soap operate star's suicide, says a board member. Mr Santino wrote a suicide note Tuesday that said: 'Today I betrayed my best friend. Rocco trusted me and I failed him. He didn’t deserve this.' The 47-year-old actor overdosed on pills hours later at his Upper West Side New York City apartment. He died on his birthday. It's all a shame, condo board member Marilyn Fineman told the New York Post: 'But it has nothing to do with the pet policy. 'You just assumed that was a result of a board’s decision.' The denial comes as Mr Santino's family revealed he would be buried with Rocco's ashes so the two pals can be together in death. His apartment building, only steps away from the world-renowned Lincoln Centre, announced a strict new policy in 2010 banning pit bulls from the building. While the rule didn’t apply to those who already had those dogs, those who knew Santino said he was harassed and received multiple complaints about his pet, the Post reports. ‘It was open season on him,’ neighbour Kevan Cleary, 63, said. The Post said Santino was not allowed to ride the main elevator or leave Rocco unattended for more than nine hours. Lia Pettigrew, another one of Santino’s neighbours, said: ‘Everybody knows that he had been harassed by the building management.’ Santino had acted in All My Children, Guiding Light, was born in Brooklyn and grew up moving from foster home to foster home. More recently, he had minor roles in USA's Royal Pains and the CW's Gossip Girl. He wrote on his Facebook wall how much his pet meant to him. ‘I did not rescue Rocco, Rocco rescued me.’ After he put Rocco down, Santino gave some of his dog treats to the doorman of the building with tears flowing down his face. Neighbours heard him say: ‘Give these to the other dogs. Rocco is no more.’ 'Today I betrayed my best friend. Rocco trusted me and I failed him. He didn’t deserve this.' -Nick Santino Mr Cleary said: ‘He was distraught and remorseful about putting down his best friend.’ Later, he left Rocco’s dog bed and two rawhide bones at another neighbour’s doors. His last call was to a former girlfriend, hours before police discovered his body. Though a veterinarian told Santino that his dog was becoming increasingly more aggressive, dog owner James Steven Grand said: ‘Rocco was the sweetest dog in the world. Rocco wouldn’t hurt a fly.’ It appeared that Santino died from overdosing on pills, the New York Post said. The dog was cremated after being put down. Santino, too, will be cremated. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093499/Condo-board-Nick-Santino-suicide-fault-despite-anti-dog-rules.html#ixzz1ksW34WPI

It's risky to use an automatic training tool that relies on aversion to work if you're not there to supervise and/or don't introduce it properly and/or don't apply it properly.

Yes, I know what you are talking about, and we would like to see it stopped toooooooo. But unfortunately when dogs go to new homes up the bush and possibly in an area where Pig Dogs are sought after this cross will happen. Also we must remember it is not illegal to cross breed dogs in this country and until it is we have little chance of stopping this practice. If these dogs had been de sexed before leaving home the problem would not have arisen. Agree. I mostly posted because I've seen about 4 posts here and on OzShow in the last few months saying how weird it is to see a Pharaoh in rescue or being crossed for hunting. If you're in NSW, it's not unusual at all.

Pharaohs are being irresponsibly bred and "homed" unfortunately, and have been for a little while now. I am not at all surprised.

I was just passing the info on. I understand it doesn't include Bungendore as well but I would email Tom if you have any questions. Breed breakdown for Bungendore is on OzShow.

Acceptable is in the regulations - shoes etc. How important it is you learn by watching, but it depends a bit on the venue and the breed. Are you going to show and if so where and what breed? The fashion panel here might be able to give you some ideas.

Lake George & Wamboin District Kennel Club Fri & Sat I regret to advise that I was unable to complete cataloguing for the above shows in time to send out exhibitor numbers. They will now need to be picked up from the show office on the day. I apologise to all exhibitors for any inconvenience. If you entered by mail you can email me, [email protected], and I will confirm your entries. All online entries are assured, so you don't need to check up on those. A reminder about Judge changes which have been previously advised to replace Michelle Thomas who is unfortunately unable to judge. Friday - Mrs Lyn Brown 6-12 Months Sweepstakes & Utility Saturday - Mrs Sandra McMahon - 3-6 Months Sweepstakes, Gundogs & Non-Sporting Thanks Tom Couchman Cataloguer

I agree with Fifi, first come first served and let the committee concentrate on running the show rather than flogging real estate.

The other issue is that a lot of people replying to threads on DOL are breeders, or have been. It is one thing to put time and effort into rehabbing an aggressive dog when you don't have a multi-dog pack to keep mentally healthy, pups in the house etc. It is another thing to hang on to a dog whose aggressive tendencies put them out of your breeding program, and who you cannot responsibly rehome. Now, I know that some people do deal with it through training and management, and kudos to them if they can make the whole thing work without leaving the problem dog to rot in a kennel and become even more unstable. However, I can't imagine many pet people would want a pup bred from a human aggressive dog no matter how well trained and managed it is so I am not going to bag people who PTS. I know there is a school of thought that you should try a training program first, and I think it's admirable when people try - I know we have. However, particularly where HA is concerned, if it's bitten someone on the face and is a nasty piece of work, I'm afraid I would tend towards PTS if it were mine. But it's not mine, or anyone else's here. All you can do is give a view, refer to a decent trainer and then let events take their course. Edited to remove excessive howevers :laugh:

I'd contact Customs too and see if they are prepared to adopt out program "failures" - they also breed the more wirey, slimline labs.

Fear of deadly rage over yapping keeps dog owners awake at night Rachel Olding January 23, 2012 FEW Sydneysiders are unfamiliar with the incessant, high-pitched sound of a dog barking from a neighbouring yard. While he has a face that could melt butter, Gizmo can make some serious noise. ''I'm constantly worried about my neighbours. They all have my phone number and I tell them to call me if he's ever bothering them,'' said Pippa Williams, who fits Gizmo with a citronella non-barking collar, walks him daily and gives him enrichment toys to minimise his barking. Luckily Gizmo's neighbours in North Sydney are more understanding than those of another Maltese terrier, Lilly. She was kidnapped from her north shore home recently and found drowned near the marina in Roseville, an atrocity her owner, father-of-two Tom Quan, believes was committed by an irate neighbour fed up with Lilly's barking. But more frightening was the vitriol it stirred around his Gordon neighbourhood. ''There are few things that send otherwise genteel, peace-loving suburban folk into a murderous rage more than the endless yapping of a little fluffball dog,'' read one comment in an article about Lilly's death in the local newspaper. ''No one minds the occasional woof-woof of a real dog because they at least know when to shut up.'' ''Many a night I've been awake imagining ways to dispose of [our neighbour's yapping dog] and restore some peace to our lives. And I LOVE dogs,'' another said. Lilly's death was just one of many incidents, from poisonings to stabbings, to hit dog owners in urban areas recently amid rising rage against yappy dogs. Higher density living and the popularity of smaller breeds mean dog issues are the most frequent complaints to councils. Kelpies and German shepherds were the most popular breeds in the '90s. City-friendly Maltese terriers are the most popular these days, a decade-long study by the Melbourne Institute of Applied Economic and Social Research found. The percentage of people whose dog rarely or never shows bad behaviour has fallen from 84 per cent to 77 per cent. Smaller dogs are not always louder but they are more reactive and owners tend to intervene later as they are deemed less frightening, said Sharon Birrell, a dog trainer with Bark Busters. They are also more likely to live in homes where neighbours are closer and more easily annoyed. ''We get a lot of calls out to townhouses,'' said Ms Birrell. ''I've had owners very scared that people will get violent or throw poison over the fence. It creates an enormous amount of anxiety.'' Mr Quan spent $500 on a dog whisperer, but it failed to quell the hatred. Ms Williams said she goes to great lengths to be considerate. But there also needs to be more understanding, said Kersti Seksel, president of the Australian Companion Animal Council, who advocates better housing design to mitigate noise. ''We possibly have expectations of dogs that aren't realistic. They're animals and they're going to have emotions and feelings.'' Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/animals/fear-of-deadly-rage-over-yapping-keeps-dog-owners-awake-at-night-20120122-1qc2n.html#ixzz1kEIzEG68

Picking up this thread late, sorry folks. Thanks for your advice and help. Will let you know what he decides on. Agree with Alyosha about rescue and the informal sighthound network, I have an alert in on NSW Gumtree for Afghans and Salukis, but if anyone spots pure bred entire sighthounds elsewhere let us know - we tend to refer to each other depending on each other's breed expertise. Dogmad, I hadn't thought of trading post, wow, that is a depressing place. I think last year the informal sighthound rescue network in NSW took at least 10 entire dogs out of the backyard breeding pool including Afghans, Borzoi, Pharaohs and Salukis. Unfortunately there is an never ending supply of inappropriate homes and breeders willing to sell to them.

Reading stuff like this makes me realise what an effort my parents made with us kids. They took us on a couple of farm holidays on a dairy farm, and we went to watch the cows and had fresh milk on our breakfast. It is pretty different to what is in the carton, but it was nice. I remember being grossed out by the cow eating her afterbirth tho'. Edit, carton not cartoon

...and she's still at it: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/animals/the-saga-of-irwin-the-paralysed-kangaroo-in-america-20120112-1pws1.html A US woman who keeps a partially paralysed kangaroo as a therapy pet says she is moving to another city over a spat with local officials, even though they insist they haven't told her to go or threatened to seize the animal. Christie Carr, who says she has been diagnosed with depression, plans to take Irwin the kangaroo from Broken Arrow to McAlester to stay with her parents because of the fuss. Ms Carr said she hastily packed what she could in her car on Wednesday afternoon because she could "no longer trust" city officials. Advertisement: Story continues below "I don't know if I'll ever go back to Broken Arrow," Ms Carr said as she made the two-hour drive to McAlester. "I don't know if I can even drive through there and feel safe." But Broken Arrow spokeswoman Stephanie Higgins said no threats were made to seize the animal and that Ms Carr failed to hand in the proper paperwork that would have allowed her to keep Irwin. Last year, Broken Arrow's city council voted to create an exotic animal ordinance exemption that allowed Ms Carr to keep Irwin within city limits under certain conditions. Ms Carr, who was unable to work because of her health, first found comfort in the companionship of Irwin after meeting him while volunteering at a local animal sanctuary on the advice of her therapist. Irwin fractured his neck and suffered brain damage when he ran into a fence, and Ms Carr offered to take him home and nurse him back to health. Irwin cannot stand or walk on his own, although he can hop with assistance. Caring for Irwin is almost a full-time job for Ms Carr: she changes his nappy several times a day, feeds him salad, raw vegetables and popcorn and dresses him up each time he leaves the house. The clothes - a little boy's shirt cut and sewed to accommodate his neck, sometimes a tie, and jeans or slacks with a hole cut for the tail - are necessary for therapeutic reasons and to protect him against germs, she said. It was unlikely that Irwin would grow to more than 50 kilograms because of his injuries. Ms Carr said she had contacted animal control workers in McAlester and she said employees told her that the city had no ordinance banning kangaroos and that she and her pet were welcome in the city. "I have to protect him," Ms Carr said. "I have to get him out of there because they are not taking him. I haven't taken this paralysed kangaroo and taught him to hop again for Broken Arrow to come in and remove him."

Have you read through the pinned topic at the top of the forum? There was also a newbies thread for a while. If your state is QLD, call the DogsQLD office and talk to them too. I am pretty sure they have good training opportunities up there. Is it poodles you want to show? Perhaps someone here can suggest someone up there.

Speaking for my breed, I would NOT want them separated. A smooth Saluki should look like a feathered without the feathering, not like a separate breed. Plus I'd never get competition - only once in my life have I seen smooths entered that would have competed against mine for challenge points at an All Breeds show and the other smooth was absent. My (champion) smooth has beaten plenty of feathereds. Yes, it's not popular with judges who either prefer the feathering or just aren't confident enough to judge type without a bit of hair. I don't think moving him into a separate breed would fix either of those problems, it would probably make them worse. Sometimes you have to be part of the education process. Edit: Also, sometimes the feathered is just the better dog. I would be kidding myself if I assumed the only reason I was beaten on any day was because I had a smooth.

Most breeders provide a decent life for their dogs but they cannot offer the kind of life a retired dog would get in a private home either with one on one attention or as one of only two or three dogs. If the dog is going to get a "better" life retired in a companion home I really can't see what the problem is. Yes I work in breed rescue too, and yes there are one or two breeders whose dogs are regulars in the rescue environment. They are by far the minority of the breeding community, and whinging on the internet doesn't stop them. If anyone has some ideas on how to stop them, that don't involve bagging the other 95 per cent, I'll be happy to hear you out. Better people than me have tried. As Sway says, there is good and bad in every walk of life, and breeders could run this thread to pages and pages about iffy owners who do the wrong thing. The amount of time and space spent bagging breeders and showies on DOL over the last few weeks has just been phenomenal.

Love the special GSD boys and possessed Jap Spitz. Bad hair day:

Even if they did there would not be much point. Show training is about learning to show a particular breed and your particular dog to its best advantage. All the information they would give you on grooming, gaiting, stacking etc is breed specific and specific to your dog.

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/theatre/annies-best-friend-bowwows-out-20120107-1pp9e.html Annie's best friend bow-wows out Elissa Blake January 8, 2012 Read later Paws in performance ... Ella Nicol as Annie and, right, Coogee the groodie. Photo: Edwina Pickles SOME actors vomit before going on stage on opening night, while others swear by a sneaky tipple to help them through the butterflies. But the producers of the musical Annie had no choice but to give one of their performing dogs the boot after it succumbed to stage fright at preview performances at the Lyric Theatre last week. Coogee, the one-year-old groodle, could not cope with the rapturous applause he received, a production associate, Fritha Truscott, said. Advertisement: Story continues below ''As soon as he saw the audience and heard them, he looked really uncomfortable and nervous. He had his tail between his legs and he looked scared. We didn't want to put him through that night after night.'' The child stars of the show were told Coogee had ''resigned''. ''Some of the girls were really sad, especially the seven and eight-year-olds,'' Truscott said. ''Coogee had been doing really well but he just didn't like the audience attention, and there's no way we can replicate a 2000-strong audience during rehearsals.'' In stepped the understudy - or underdog - Mickey, who has replaced Coogee to play Sandy, orphan Annie's beloved pooch. On opening night, Truscott's cocker spaniel, Ruben, had to step in for Mickey in his cameo role as a stray dog. A search is now on for another groodle to replace Coogee. Last night, actress Chloe Dallimore, who plays Lily St Regis in the show, lent her dog, Chino, a Maltese-shitzsu, for the stray dog role. Chino will perform in the show until a new groodle is cast and rehearsed. Groodles, a cross between a golden retriever and a poodle, were chosen for the production for their fluffy coats and even temperaments. The last national tour of Annie featured two labradoodles but this time groodles were chosen. Julie Lorimer of animal talent agency Animal House, which provided both sets of dogs for Annie, said it was the first time she had experienced a dog reacting badly to audience applause. ''You can't hire the Lyric Theatre and put 2000 people in it just to test the dog. We trained him in lots of noisy places like shopping malls, a school and with a band practising and he was fine. ''But when he put his paw up and the whole audience went 'awww', he thought he got it wrong.''